Class 37 with manual Notching

[cassey jones]

This is a Zimo sound chip with Notching activated by function buttons.

Basically two sound files on one chip, standard sounds and then manual - sounds and notching activated by function buttons.

This has to be the ultimate driving experience of a sound loco. - being able to increase or decrease engine sounds whilst driving the loco at the touch of a button.

Perhaps this is the direction sound chips should be going......not sure whether Loksound v4 will be able to do this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOdd4-ZaGqo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILnh-WbcMWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8LdaULhE58

[big jim]

is this not the same function pauliebanger demonstrated in his thread a few weeks back?

 

where does it differ from lok-sound's notching function as i have on my class 60 and 66, i can increase the engine note (ie thrash) on them using function 10 and decrease it using functon 11 while driving it to suit?

 

sounds nice though

[Sunnysa]

The Zimo does sound nice but no better IMHO than any other well set up sound decoder.

loksound 3.5 has had manual notching a few yrs. QSI has also had a version of it since their V7.

All my Loksound 3.5 equipped diesels perform the same as the Zimo diesels in the videos. Notching, coasting etc.

 

I am led to believe Zimo sound has more function wires than most.

Probably a step ahead in that respect.

 

Cheers

Ian

[cassey jones]

Folks you have missed the point, it is not the same as my Loksound Notching!

Where as you only have one type of Notching/Thrash.

 

No, this is actually the various engine notching on function buttons, from start up to full thrash all manually controlled.

 

Let me explain,

F1 start up as normal.

Let the engine tick over [same as any other DS loco] but then,

Increase your speed step very slightly [say 2 of 28], then press F3 - first engine notch up,[you can have it on for as long as you wish]

Increase your speed step, building up speed, then activate F4 - the next engine notch up [the accelleration noise is different to F3] again you can have it on for as little or as much as you wish.

Increase the speed step again, activate F5 [again diffferent to F3 and F4 - Thrash of a 37 as it goes into full power, increase speed step again, press F6 [this activates coasting on the 37] come off F5 and the loco will coast, all being controlled by functions - manually done.

Next press F8, drop speed step, manual braking is activated, then press F3 as Thrash now comes back on. increase your speed step, activate F4, and so on... Listen to the engine noise increase as you change function buttons.

 

Basically you control all the engine sounds [manually] via function buttons.

If you listen to video 3 where I have the 37 with notching constantly on, [hear the engine increase on 8 second, 27 seconds and again from 50 seconds, - that bit of engine thrash is me activating it manually] This is all done as and when I wish the Thrash to come on regardless of which speed is activated.

 

Now on a standard chip this only works via your speed steps, pre rogrammed onto the chip, the Zimo works manually, you actually increase the engine through various notching controlled by yourself for as much or as little as you wish, it will coast when you actually select the function button.

 

What it does it makes the 37 completely interactive with the operator.

Now if you wish to go back to a standard sound chip file, you can by switching a CV - SO IN ESSENCE YOU HAVE TWO SETS OF SOUND FILES ON ONE CHIP.

 

So in reality one loco is going around my layout pulling a rake of coaches on auto [like any other sound chipped loco would once I have got it upto speed] - The second loco will be manually controlled by myself, it becomes a complete driving experience.

Honestly you have to really experience this, it is where we should be going with DS loco's, completely interative driving experience.

 

It does make all my Bachmann SWD and Howes sound loco's seem toy like now, but hey I can use then on auto on my layout,- whilst actually driving a loco at the same time.

[James]

That, to me at least, seems like a lot of messing about for the sounds.

[cassey jones]

No,

You are actually driving the loco.

If you want to watch loco's go around and round on auto, then this experience is not for you.

If you wish to have full control of the loco, then this has to be the ultimate experience.

Now whether you wish to drive it round a tail chaser or run your loco on shed - this is fantastic interactive way to do it -only in reality using F1 F3 F4 F5 F6 function buttons.

It works for me very well using my Lenz ST 100 and operating a hand held camera as well!

[big jim]

i think james has put it better than i possibly could, really does sound like a lot of messing around, out of interest i take it the 37 will still drive "normally" if you just want it to go "automatically" or do you have to do this F5, F6 etc everytime you move?

 

i really cant see how its different to the loksound notching though apart from the fact the notch up and down are only on 2 function keys, the ones i have alll do similar to you have described, ie get moving slowly then use the function button to notch up while still crawling along to create the illusion of a heavy train being moved very slowly, i can then notch down to the point where the engine sounds match the movement, then notching back a couple of speed steps will give me the coast sound (if its not already doing it)

 

the only other difference i can make out is you could go from idle to near top thrash in 1 button push ie the loco is idling then push F5 and its thrashing, can that be done while stationary too?

 

i keep thinking i'll go for a zimo chip but i'm really not convinced yet as it seems too in depth for me, although i love my sound locos i do like to just make them move and make sounds with the minimum of fuss!!

[cassey jones]

Sorry, what I forgot to mention is -

In those videos above, all the engine noise increases you hear as the loco is moving, are done by me - not do by the chip automatically!

[cassey jones]

i think james has put it better than i possibly could, really does sound like a lot of messing around, out of interest i take it the 37 will still drive "normally" if you just want it to go "automatically" or do you have to do this F5, F6 etc everytime you move?

 

i really cant see how its different to the loksound notching though apart from the fact the notch up and down are only on 2 function keys, the ones i have alll do similar to you have described, ie get moving slowly then use the function button to notch up while still crawling along to create the illusion of a heavy train being moved very slowly, i can then notch down to the point where the engine sounds match the movement, then notching back a couple of speed steps will give me the coast sound (if its not already doing it)

 

the only other difference i can make out is you could go from idle to near top thrash in 1 button push ie the loco is idling then push F5 and its thrashing, can that be done while stationary too?

 

i keep thinking i'll go for a zimo chip but i'm really not convinced yet as it seems too in depth for me, although i love my sound locos i do like to just make them move and make sounds with the minimum of fuss!!

 

Jim,

No it's completely different notching - you have as I do with my Loksound DS models - only one stage notching together with an automated sound chip.

The noises on this Zimo chip can all be activated with the loco stationary, no automation of sounds when this chip is switched to manual -this is completely different to Loksound.

Your loco's run automatically as per speed step proogrammed to your chip as do all my Howes Loksound do.

You cannot control your different engine sounds, yours as my Howes are, - are all done as you increase or decrease your speed step.

 

This Zimo's a 100% improvement over the Loksound chips.

 

Yes, you can still have the loco running round the layout as you can with any other DS loco, you actually have 2 sets of complete sound files on the chip, the automatic version[as per standard DS model] and also the manual version, I just change a CV, to switch between the two versions.

If on manual I don't activate either F3, 4 OR 5 THEN THERE WILL BE NO SOUND.

This is because I actual drive the loco, increase or decrease the engine rev's accordingly, the notching is in stages eg engine noises increase per activatation of which function key is pressed.

 

All the engine increases in those vids are done by me manually, its even better with the loco on shed, moving around.

 

How is it done?

Read April's issue of Hornby Magazine issue 47 - out this week-

It might even enlighten those that are stuck in Loksound world!

 

This has to be the way forward, - a completely interactive sound chipped loco, all engine sounds and functions completely controlled by the operator.

[big jim]

right i see the difference now....

 

you see thats where we differ, i dont want a chip that has to be completly controlled by me, i just want to be able to set it running and adjust the engine sounds by simply slightly changing the speed of the loco now and again between coast and thrash, ie when going up hill or down dale as you would control a real loco over gradients, class 37s are my basic traction but i dont remember the part of the course that says that when i open the power handle i have to pull a 2nd lever to make the engine noise match

 

if you have "programming on main" can you switch between the automated sounds and the manual sounds while on the move though?

 

the thing that puts me off zimo is the "i just change such and such cv to get it to work" i dont want to be doing that i want to just enjoy the sounds with minimum of fuss and setting up, admittedly they do sound very good

 

i think i still need a bit more convincing yet, do you have jmri, if so how easy are they to program using that and the lenz?

[cassey jones]

Jim,

 

Your idea of Notching, eg what you do with Howes or Bachmann loco, is not the same as this Zimo Notching.

 

My Notching is basically the increase of engine accelleration [just like your power handle would actually do], where Howes and Bachmann are re programmed and we press the relevent function key, and we still have engine noises going on.

My Notching is the complete increase of engine sounds, the increase of power, hence why I activate different function keys, F3 F4 and F5, they are all different notching,

abit like moving your power handle 1/3, then 1/3 again and then upto full thrash.

Drop off my speed step [pressing F8 braking comes on the sound file] then press F6, and the tractor will coast, just like the real thing and as the loco starts to slow re activate F3 and the power resumes.....

 

If ZTC were more reliable, I think this interactive type DS loco would be good on their controller, as its set out similiar to the real thing.

[cassey jones]

Doddy,

 

Yes its all off Paul,

Yes if I don't activate F3 4 or 5 there will be no sound, as it is all manual.

F3 is the first stage of accelleration and will stay on for as long as I keep it activated.

The Zimo also has controllable volume for each function key, again something else the Loksound SWD Howes or Bachmann cannot do.

It is a complete driving experience, problems with pressing too many keys?

Hmm, I was also holding a digital camera, a ST100 handset whilst activating the keys, too many, too complicated, never!

Only used 4 keys for driving the loco - now that cannot be called complicated, can it?

 

This set up really only for operators who wish to drive their loco's, although you can swap to stage 1 and run the loco as a standard type of chip and then watch it go around a layout.

The sounds on manual have nothing to do with speed steps.

 

Issue 47 is out this week sometime?

[cassey jones]

CJ,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

I do wish to have cab controller that does what the real loco would do in so far as possible using the controls as per the real driving desk (or backhead), I do not really want to be looking over my shoulder or counting in my head as to when I should press the next sound button to avoid sound drop-outs. So I think that rules ZIMO out for me for this approach. Although I might just use my King Edward II recordings on a ZIMO chip using pauliebangers 4MT programming notes.

 

Doddy,

 

You don't need to count anything in your head, or look over your shoulder, just drive the loco, no sound drop outs.

As I said earlier, it works by activation of a function button, for as long as you wish to to be activated, hence video 3 showing activation of F3 - nice and steady acceleration, constant and when ready to increase speed, move to F4, for next increase of thrash - alternatively then press F6 [tick over or coasting], depending if I deactivate F4 - up the speed step for the illusion to work visually.

[clickertyclack]

Hi Cassey

 

So instead of 2mins memory for a sound project ( at 22kz) we now divide this by 2, so have I min for each sound set yes?

Also, what Function buttons for start/stop? Stupid maybe but no mention in your thread when in manual notching mode.

I personnally would prefer the ESU option at the moment but would like to purchase a Zimo chip like yours for evaluation. Where can I get one?

 

cc

[cassey jones]

OK CJ,

 

Perhaps I have misinterpreted your earlier postings.

 

As a by-the-by.. What issues of HM are the class 37 DCC articles in?

 

 

Issue 45 46 47

[cassey jones]

Hi Cassey

 

So instead of 2mins memory for a sound project ( at 22kz) we now divide this by 2, so have I min for each sound set yes?

Also, what Function buttons for start/stop? Stupid maybe but no mention in your thread when in manual notching mode.

I personnally would prefer the ESU option at the moment but would like to purchase a Zimo chip like yours for evaluation. Where can I get one?

 

cc

 

No - 3 minutes 32 bit chip [at 22kz]

F1 for start up.

Loksound v3.5 v Zimo ...?

No one winner here, and its not Loksound.

Why?

Read the thread the answers are there.

[James]

If you wish to have full control of the loco, then this has to be the ultimate experience.

I can see the appeal, though I wonder if the observer benefits more due to the overall effect, but the ultimate model 'driving' experience for me is still Dyna Drive because the loco will actually continue because it's all mechanical rather than just programmed to move that way.

[cassey jones]

I can see the appeal, though I wonder if the observer benefits more due to the overall effect, but the ultimate model 'driving' experience for me is still Dyna Drive because the loco will actually continue because it's all mechanical rather than just programmed to move that way.

 

 

Not quite sure how the observer benefits more?

When the operator is in full manual control, same as a power handle on the real thing.

But maybe I have missed something!

[clickertyclack]

No - 3 minutes 32 bit chip [at 22kz]

F1 for start up.

Loksound v3.5 v Zimo ...?

No one winner here, and its not Loksound.

Why?

Read the thread the answers are there.

 

Of course 3mins yes. My mistake the zimo is 8 bit and the Loksound v4 is 12 bit hence you are right of course 3mins

on the Zimo, 1.5 mins for each soundset.

 

Loksound v4 v Zimo......? No contest really

 

Loksound v4 22kz 12 bit 2mins Manual Notching

Zimo 22kz 8 bit 3mins refer to the Manual, Notching

[big jim]

Not quite sure how the observer benefits more?

When the operator is in full manual control, same as a power handle on the real thing.

But maybe I have missed something!

 

i think i'm missing something too.....

 

i cant see how the driver controlling the sound and motor seperatly through the same controller by pushing buttons is an advancement in sound chip technology no matter how good a sound project is, be it zimo or loksound, yet alone anything like the driving controls of the real thing.

 

the last 37 i drove had one big handle that you pulled towards you and both the sound and motion happened together, no extra buttons to push!!

 

from what i can make out you may as well buy a sound only chip (if you can get them) and piggyback it with a motor decoder

[Sunnysa]

With my Lokprogramer I can get a Lok 3.5 that close to a Zimo it does not matter.

Coast, thrash, notch up/down all done with throttle and 2 buttons.

 

Don't get me wrong,I am not saying any decoder is better than any other.

 

It is really horses for courses.

 

I am eagerly waiting till may for the full programing capabilities of Lok V4.

 

Ian

[James]

Not quite sure how the observer benefits more?

Becuase they hear all the results of the loco's engine speed varying and the difference in acceleration while the operator seems to be spending his time just pressing buttons to mimic the real thing's sound.

 

Dyna-Drive doesn't make the right noise but you convince yourself it does as the motor speed isn't necessarily proportional with the loco's speed. But the feeling of momentum for the 'driver' is fantastic and no electronically controlled loco will be able to match this. This is whay I like it, becuase there's no big red emergency stop-dead - it will run through things and it requires you to think ahead constantly.

 

When the operator is in full manual control, same as a power handle on the real thing.

the last 37 i drove had one big handle that you pulled towards you and both the sound and motion happened together, no extra buttons to push!!

Matisa tampers and regulators do require the engine revs to be increased before they can set off, and can be varied throughout manually. But this may be also connected with running the hydraulic systems for the operating gear.

[cassey jones]

Of course 3mins yes. My mistake the zimo is 8 bit and the Loksound v4 is 12 bit hence you are right of course 3mins

on the Zimo, 1.5 mins for each soundset.

 

Loksound v4 v Zimo......? No contest really

 

Loksound v4 22kz 12 bit 2mins Manual Notching

Zimo 22kz 8 bit 3mins refer to the Manual, Notching

 

The Zimo 645D is sound memory 32 mbit memory [180 sec@22kz or 360kz@11 sec]

At the moment all Loksound have is v4 with v3.5 sound files on them. - Without manual control/notching or individual volume controlled functions, plus all the other extras available to Zimo decoders.

Until Loksound provide v4 software, then all you have a louder v3.5.

Lets us see after Loksound provide the software, what it may or may not do.

[Etched Pixels]

i think i'm missing something too.....

 

i cant see how the driver controlling the sound and motor seperatly through the same controller by pushing buttons is an advancement in sound chip technology no matter how good a sound project is, be it zimo or loksound, yet alone anything like the driving controls of the real thing.

 

the last 37 i drove had one big handle that you pulled towards you and both the sound and motion happened together, no extra buttons to push!!

 

from what i can make out you may as well buy a sound only chip (if you can get them) and piggyback it with a motor decoder

 

The full size 37 has the sound configured by attaching wagons to the back and by the gradients.

 

I'd actually much rather see a "loading" CV than entirely manual drive to be honest, that and use of back EMF as some decoders do so that things sound like they are working harder on grades and curves. It's one area where DCC has oddly gone backwards - several DC systems that did brake simulation had a load knob.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I am not a diesel man and the Loksound chip that I have in my Class 24 has been tweaked by me.

 

Notching on a Loksound is acheived in two ways, one is to just open the throttle, the revs increase and the loco moves. The second is to use F5. If you push F5 then after a couple of seconds the revs increase and then again until you switch F5 off, then you open the throttle and the now screaming diesel sets off. If you then push F6, a few seconds later the diesel notches down. This is without touching the throttle.

 

This is on an early 1 minute chip. The 2 minute chip ( V3.5 ) has the facility to re-direct the sound into thrash mode depending on the throttle position and, on closing it, return to less thrash. A further close of the throttle gives the coasting in idle which can be programmed to last for ages and to return to the drive sound that corresponds to the throttle opening or indeed with an increase to start thrashing loudly. None of this requires any more than a careful throttle hand and some adjustment of the thresholds.

 

Your description of driving the Zimo chip is light on one vital subject. The functions you are playing are non latching so must be turned off at some point but you have not mentioned that. Am I to take it that the Zimo chip cannot play several sounds at once or is it that all the engine sounds are on all the time.

 

You Tube is not really too explanatory in that there is usually no visual record of which buttons have which effect. We have already been treated in the distant past to a full two minute recording of a diesel with no visible movement as it was on a rolling road and this was lauded as being the ultimate Zimo recording at the time.

 

I am pleased that Zimo have come up with this sound decoder and boy did we wait a long time. Even so it is good to see people are starting to penetrate it and get better results than just after launch but the truth of the matter is that, as can be read in the responses, people just don't want to do anything but twist the throttle and go and let the chip make all the decisions. Loksound can still do that and we are all much further in to ESU product so Zimo has always had a mountain to climb particularly in the UK.

 

I would suggest that they still do and that Zimo themselves are not particularly interested in the UK market so there is little real support in this country for the Zimo brand and the sound project market. It is still early days though and improvements must come but I am yet to be convinced that Zimo have yet overtaken Loksound to any real degree and the Loksound 4 might sway us back again in any event.