Is Overseas Modelling Interest Declining?

[Pacific231G]

One aspect of this discussion that seems to have been overlooked is whether there are commercial ties between the model railway press that serve to influence their content in favour of proprietary British outline models. Previous discussions have speculated whether magazine reviews are impartial, given that such reviews sell magazines and an unfavourable (albeit honest) review might stem the supply of future loaned models for review. There would appear to be less of a tie-in with overseas models, whose availability for review is often down to retailers loaning models on a less frequent basis.

 

To me, taken as a whole, the current range of magazines tend toward greater connection with the major manufacturers/importers and rtr products than in the past. They are unlikely to bite the hands that feed them - and overseas prototype or any scratch built models put less food on their tables than promoting Hornmann and Bachby products.

You may be right and I wonder if it's signifcant that the one remaining magazine focussing on non-British modelling is owned by a company whose main product is track.

 

What does annoy me is that MRJ, supposedly dedicated to fine scale railway modelling, ignores almost all fine scale modelling that isn't based on British (or Irish) prototypes. The obvious exception was Pempoul but even they could hardly ignore the Gravetts' superlative level of modelling.   The MRJ index shows eleven articles by the now sadly late Richard Chown but none of them are about his excellent models of late nineteenth century French rolling stock and there's not a mention of his two layouts Courcelle Part and Allendenac. The name of the latter was a tribute to another superb 0 scale modeller Dennis Allenden but, because he focussed on French locos of the Belle Epoque his work too is all but forgotten despite being a prolific contributor mainly to MRN/MR before his untimely death in I think 1974.

[Barry Ten]

You may be right and I wonder if it's signifcant that the one remaining magazine focussing on non-British modelling is owned by a company whose main product is track.

 

What does annoy me is that MRJ, supposedly dedicated to fine scale railway modelling, ignores almost all fine scale modelling that isn't based on British (or Irish) prototypes. The obvious exception was Pempoul but even they could hardly ignore the Gravetts' superlative level of modelling.   The MRJ index shows eleven articles by the now sadly late Richard Chown but none of them are about his excellent models of late nineteenth century French rolling stock and there's not a mention of his two layouts Courcelle Part and Allendenac. The name of the latter was a tribute to another superb 0 scale modeller Dennis Allenden but, because he focussed on French locos of the Belle Epoque his work too is all but forgotten despite being a prolific contributor to MRC before his untimely death in 1974. .

 

In fairness to MRJ, haven't they given quite good coverage lately to that beautiful French P87 layout, with the street trackage, factory sidings, etc? I would agree that it would be good to see more of that sort of thing, however.

[Chris M]

You mean it is possible to build N-gauge layouts bigger than 2' x 4' with 180 degree curves at both ends?

Oh yes - mine is 7' x 3' 3" . I do have a second one which is only 44" x 27". Both are of course brilliant layouts albeit based on British practice. My foreign based layout is a single track dogbone and is about 200' long. I like contrasts.

[Pacific231G]

One aspect of this discussion that seems to have been overlooked is whether there are commercial ties between the model railway press that serve to influence their content in favour of proprietary British outline models. Previous discussions have speculated whether magazine reviews are impartial, given that such reviews sell magazines and an unfavourable (albeit honest) review might stem the supply of future loaned models for review. There would appear to be less of a tie-in with overseas models, whose availability for review is often down to retailers loaning models on a less frequent basis.

 

To me, taken as a whole, the current range of magazines tend toward greater connection with the major manufacturers/importers and rtr products than in the past. They are unlikely to bite the hands that feed them - and overseas prototype or any scratch built models put less food on their tables than promoting Hornmann and Bachby products.

Except that Hornby and Bachmann are in the H0 market as well. Hornby owns  Jouef, Rivarossi, Electrotren and Lima (as well as Armold in N and TT) and Bachmann owns Lilliput.

For a long time Hornby UK seemed reluctant to market its H0 brands in the UK but that seems to be changing. Liliput used to include a fairly wide range, I have a couple of their SNCF 140Cs,  though their current catalogue does seem to be all German.  

 

 

In fairness to MRJ, haven't they given quite good coverage lately to that beautiful French P87 layout, with the street trackage, factory sidings, etc? I would agree that it would be good to see more of that sort of thing, however.

The odd thing does appear and hopefully they are starting to take a rather broader view.  I doubt though if the proportion of MRJ's content relating to the modelling of non-British Isles modelling is anything like as high as the proportion of British fine scale modellers (however you define that) working in those areas. 

What constitutes "fine scale modelling" may be a bit distorted by the general assumption that you're a fine scale modeller if you depart from 00 (or the equivalent ghastly British compromises in other scales) to say EM without necessarily going to to the Proto scales whereas the distinction is not so obvious when, as in H0 and TT (1:120) the commonly used gauge is already correct for the scale.  

[tetsudofan]

Except that Hornby and Bachmann are in the H0 market as well. Hornby owns  Jouef, Rivarossi, Electrotren and Lima (as well as Armold in N and TT) and Bachmann owns Lilliput.

 

 

Agree with what you say about Hornby but not about Bachmann as its my understanding that Bachmann UK does not own Lilliput but is owned by Kader who, as well as owning Bachmann UK, also own Lilliput, Bachmann USA and Bachmann China.

 

Keith

[Pacific231G]

Agree with what you say about Hornby but not about Bachmann as its my understanding that Bachmann UK does not own Lilliput but is owned by Kader who, as well as owning Bachmann UK, also own Lilliput, Bachmann USA and Bachmann China.

 

Keith

I don't think there is a Bachmann UK as such. Liliput, Graham Farish, Branchline are all part of Bachmann Europe plc.

 

Looking at the box my 140C came in, the brand is Liliput (First Class) but the company listed on the box is Bachmann Europe Plc. 90518 Altdorf bei Nürnberg (website www.liliput.de) The box has German as its primary language with the "not suitable for children under 14" notice in German, then English then French. It was of course Made in China and I bought it from the Bachmann stand at Ally Pally a few years ago.  On its UK website Bachmann Europe Plc is a company registered in Leicestershire but I don't know if that's a separare Kader subsidiary with the same name. In any case Bachmann Europe's website marketing appears to be seamless for its various brands. .

[Horsetan]

In fairness to MRJ, haven't they given quite good coverage lately to that beautiful French P87 layout, with the street trackage, factory sidings, etc? I would agree that it would be good to see more of that sort of thing, however.

P87 is not as accessible as P4. There is still a lack of easily-purchased parts such as gauges and wheels. There is no direct equivalent of AGW where you can order P87 wheels off the shelf to fit yourself. It took me bloody ages to track down these things.

[Andy Hayter]

Luck produce P87 wheel sets

 

http://www.feinmechanik-luck.de/

 

you will need to scroll down H0 Radsatze to just over half way down, because they also produce to NEM and RP25 standards

[Horsetan]

Luck produce P87 wheel sets

 

http://www.feinmechanik-luck.de/

 

you will need to scroll down H0 Radsatze to just over half way down, because they also produce to NEM and RP25 standards

 

Nothing for engines, though.

 

There are P87 wheels available for French engines - see Apogee Vapeur, which accepts PayPal - but no finished equivalent for German ones, and I've yet to identify anything available for Swiss locos.

 

For German classes, the nearest equivalent is to buy raw castings from someone like Herr Teichmann and finish them yourself on a lathe (which assumes you have managed to find form / profile tools), or commission someone like Holger Graler to produce custom sets for you. Not cheap.

[Andy Hayter]

Weinert do "fine 25" profile loco wheels as well as RP25, but I have no idea how far off P87 they are, or whether they are to all intnents and purposes P87.

 

http://blaetterkatalog.weinert-modellbau.de/#page_66

[Horsetan]

The Weinert 'fine RP25' are the RP25/88 wheels from the NMRA standards, while 'normal' RP25 is actually RP25/110. P:87 is much, much finer then RP25/88. ....

 

Wheel width of RP25/88 is about 2.8mm

 

RP25/fine is 2.2mm

 

P87 / HO-pur is more like 1.6 to 1.75mm max.

 

Quite a difference, and that's before you start looking at flange depth.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Is it declining? If I understand correctly the Roco/Fleischmann empire made a loss circa 30% of annual gross receipts last year. Forget any possible decline of interest in the UK, the home market must be in trouble.

[Horsetan]

....the Roco/Fleischmann empire made a loss circa 30% of annual gross receipts last year. Forget any possible decline of interest in the UK, the home market must be in trouble.

 

They've all been losing money to some extent, which explains why Roco and Fleischmann more or less merged in recent years. Gutzold went through a very dodgy period a few years back. Are figures available for Bachmann-Liliput?

[Talltim]

Certainly the quantity of posting on the US sub forum of RMweb has decreased in the last year. That is partly because people use other mediums to communicate.

[N15class]

Sitting here in Brazil I am modelling 1930's ex LSWR, is that classed as modelling am overseas railway?

[whart57]

This month's Model Rail highlights again the ridiculous separation of British outline modelling from overseas modelling. In a piece on branch line modelling the writers discuss avoiding the cliches of the Big Four/steam era BR single line branch terminus. The suggestions are good - independent lines like the Derwent Valley, model the branch line scene of the last ten years, avoid having a station etc. Missing from the list though is another obvious one - go foreign. Would it have caused massed cancellations of subscriptions to have suggested that? Would there be readers seeing that sentence as the thin end of an unpatriotic wedge? Who knows, but it is a sad state of affairs

[Talltim]

Of course, model the current British scene and it's hard to avoid foreign built/owned/operated trains anyway...

[The Johnster]

Sitting here in Brazil I am modelling 1930's ex LSWR, is that classed as modelling am overseas railway?

 

 

It's the other side of the Bristol Channel from me in Cardiff, so, yes.

[grahame]

You mean it is possible to build N-gauge layouts bigger than 2' x 4' with 180 degree curves at both ends?

Probably the same issues and reasoning why those building layouts in OO/4mm have difficulty with curves and always seem to end up with straight shunting planks or depot layouts.

;-)

 

G