RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2012 I see Hornby have announced another profit warning due to less than expect sales over the Christmas period: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16754809 Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2012 At least that short piece didn't use the hacks standby phrases off 'off the rails' 'hits the buffers' 'gravy train' or 'shunted into a siding'. I guess we should be grateful for small mercies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Issues like the 4 VEP saga has not helped. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Reuters.... British toy manufacturer Hornby Plc warned year profit would be below expectations after shoppers bought fewer higher-priced toys in the run up to Christmas.The manufacturer of model railways, Scalextric and Airfix said growth in sales in the UK was muted in the pre-Christmas period compared to a year earlier, largely due to a drop in sales of Hornby and Scalextric sets - traditionally popular gifts for children at Christmas. If I remember correctly, the previous year involved a big dip in sales, put down to the heavy snow and reduced spending due to the recession. I read that to mean that this years dip is below the previous poor Christmas result? Not wanting to re-open the Hornby move into cheap toys discussion..... Johnson added the group was investing in a range of products, which were showcased at the London toy fair earlier this week and had already signed distribution agreements, which will help to bolster the company's performance in the future.New products include a "Star Wars" Scalextric set, fantasy war games and the firm will branch away from its traditional market for boys with a range of collectable horses for girls in a deal with Reeves International. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2012 Copied over from the 'Hornby 2012' thread as this seems a more appropriate place - Posted Today, 11:16 dcroz, on 27 January 2012 - 10:37 , said: According to a report in today's Daily Telegraph - http://www.independe...ck-6295497.html - Hornby has warned of weak trading over Christmas, and of lower than anticipated profits. Hornby's full statement to the London Stock Exchange can be found here: http://www.londonsto...0120127SN000861 Hornby shares have fallen 19% since the release of this profits warning. Now that is interesting. I read somewhere the other day that the UK 'toy and model' market grew by a little in excess of 2.5% compared with an overall drop in retail of about 0.2%. Against that background one can understand the Hornby share price dipping dropping by a fifth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2012 Not wanting to re-open the Hornby move into cheap toys discussion..... Quote Johnson added the group was investing in a range of products, which were showcased at the London toy fair earlier this week and had already signed distribution agreements, which will help to bolster the company's performance in the future. New products include a "Star Wars" Scalextric set, fantasy war games and the firm will branch away from its traditional market for boys with a range of collectable horses for girls in a deal with Reeves International. Indeed. Interestingly, when I was in Italy over Christmas I saw a Lima branded truck, similar to but a bit smaller and cheaper than the well established "bruder" brand toys. The box also referred to Hornby s.r.l. Looks like expansion in Europe using a well know existing brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tase Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm not surprised Hornby is struggling really. Quality issues, not really delivering models that customers want (look at this years releases or lack of them, for the modern image modeller. Also, would they have ever taken a chance on the MPV like Bachmann did?), high retail prices - £148 for the NMT power/dummy set, really? IMHO they are far inferior to any model that Bachmann and Dapol are currently producing. C'mon Hornby, listen to what customers are asking for and deliver them at reasonable cost. Perhaps moving into something like track maintenance models would help arrest the decline in sales cos if you're the only manufacturer doing them then we can only buy from you. Just a thought! T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmg Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The poor results must be particularly disappointing for Hornby when they view them against the backdrop of generally buoyant news from the toy fair this week: http://www.toynews-online.biz/news/35339/TOY-FAIR-DAILY-UK-toy-industry-grows-three-per-cent-in-2011-remains-largest-in-Europe Sadly it was all rather too predictable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm not surprised Hornby is struggling really. Quality issues, not really delivering models that customers want (look at this years releases or lack of them, for the modern image modeller. Also, would they have ever taken a chance on the MPV like Bachmann did?), high retail prices - £148 for the NMT power/dummy set, really? IMHO they are far inferior to any model that Bachmann and Dapol are currently producing. C'mon Hornby, listen to what customers are asking for and deliver them at reasonable cost. Perhaps moving into something like track maintenance models would help arrest the decline in sales cos if you're the only manufacturer doing them then we can only buy from you. Just a thought! T We don't know where the Group has not had the sales success it hoped for and for all we know the model railway side might have matched or even exceeded their budget. Agreed we do have clear indications of some things which did not sell well and were heavily discounted (although again we don't know the financial impact of that on the Group's figures). Equally we can understand market resistance to some of their RRPs although the actual situation is far more difficult to judge because of discounting. And perhaps what you didn't spend with Hornby was made up for by what someone else did spend - on such things as the /A Hawksworths and 2-8-0s/'Castles' (various)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2012 We don't know where the Group has not had the sales success it hoped for and for all we know the model railway side might have matched or even exceeded their budget. That thought was going through my mind as well - on here we only think about the railway side of things and tend to forget that the Hornby Group includes Hornby, Scalextric, Electrotren, Lima, Jouef, Rivarossi, Airfix, Humbrol and Corgi. I bet that if you look on a Scalextric or Airfix forum, the members there will also be thinking that a drop in sales means the end of the world. The press release referred to earlier lists 6 new initiatives and none of those are related to railways - as a matter of interest does anyone know how their sales are broken down - with a turnover of around £63m, it can't all be railways. The last annual report and accounts (69 pages) http://online.hemsco.../pdf/ar2011.pdf doesn't seem to give this breakdown except for separating UK sales from Europe, USA etc but not a separate figure for railways, Scalextic, Airifx, Humbrol and Corgi Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If it is set sales that are stinging them it's hardly suprising. Sets seem to be their best sellers, but of late the prices seem to be extortionate. If they want to suceed they need to compete with other products on price, through intiatives like railroad we can see some of this but they need to try and come up with a set for £50-70 pounds. The price needs to compete with the new game market (around £50) for the christmas present slot. I'm not suggesting that they should churn out flying scotsman sets for bargain prices but the wee puffers, circle of track, a couple of wagons and a transformer need to be more competitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2012 If it is set sales that are stinging them it's hardly suprising. Sets seem to be their best sellers, but of late the prices seem to be extortionate. If they want to suceed they need to compete with other products on price, through intiatives like railroad we can see some of this but they need to try and come up with a set for £50-70 pounds. The price needs to compete with the new game market (around £50) for the christmas present slot. I'm not suggesting that they should churn out flying scotsman sets for bargain prices but the wee puffers, circle of track, a couple of wagons and a transformer need to be more competitive. I've no idea how Hornby "compiles" a set and I suppose for most new entrants it doesn't really matter, but why does Hornby insist on mixing modern and what should be "sunsetted" tooling in the same set? However, much I might want a particular locos or coaches in a set, I won't even consider these mixed sets. I wonder how many sales (if any) they lose because potential buyers are also put off in this way? Hornby has done well with many of its Railroad branded models. How about cheaper Railroad sets for those older tooling models and keep the main Hornby brand for the higher spec. models? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDL Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I doubt the poor sales have too much to do with the VEP and more to do with train set and scalextric sales at Christmas. Although I am sure the "adult" modeller and collector market does get Christmas presents(!) I imagine the sales profile is smoother for the year. It would be very interesting to know Hornby UK model railway sales and profitability vs. their other lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC Jack Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I am new to this section of the forum so forgive what might be a daft response. Reading the railway mags for many years and wondering at the vast amount of high priced RTR stock that floods the market now, I am surprised that this has not happened sooner. There must be a limit to the "How many locos do I need" scenario. I think we will see less models in the upper price range in the next few years from all manufacturers. Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 There is one online report blaming competition against video games for poor scalextric sales, which all seems a little ironic considering that threat has been around for a generation and they ought to be used to it by now. Perhaps the bubble has burst, collectors are fewer and getting cynical in the face of limited edition models being sold new for alot more than their development costs, for example I was thinking of getting a 1908 Olympic pack as it was one of my favourite locos as a kid, but my aswell find a secondhand County as it's just the same model... Maybe we need James May to give them some more publicity again... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macketty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hornby's announcement is in stark contrast to Bachmann's latest Press Release: http://www.Bachmann..../pr1.php?id=305 "Bachmann Europe Plc, manufacturer and distributor of Model and Hobby products including Branchline OO scale model trains; announced today that it is very much looking forward to the year ahead. The company has enjoyed its busiest ever year in 2011 with turnover and profit reaching their highest ever levels since the Leicestershire firm was established by Managing Director Graham Hubbard back in 1989. David Haarhaus, European Sales and Marketing Manager said 2011 has been exceptional for Bachmann Europe PLC; it started with us winning the prestigious OO scale Manufacturer of the Year award back in March and a clean sweep in all OO scale categories made possible by our skilled engineers in England and at our parent company in China. Since then, our sales and logistics teams have been extremely busy throughout the year meeting high demand for our Branchline products and increasing the contact with our supportive customers, and in turn our loyal consumers and collectors. Our Marketing and Collectors Club teams have successfully launched new websites making it easier for our consumers to gain the latest product news and where to purchase our vast selection of items from.â€. Sounds like quite a different story to the bad news from Hornby today. Mac Sorry! Just seen Andy Y's thread for this announcement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I can't say i'm suprised. If they keep doing models of locomotives that most dont want, doing ones that other manufactuers have been doing for years, and coaches at astronomical prices that only the super rich can afford, and trying to fob off 35 year old models for the wrong side of a ton, whats to be expected? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The difference in fortunes between Hornby and Bachmann seem to be replicated in their current output. I think it's fair to say that Bachmann are currently at the top of their game with everything they're bringing out at the moment being excellent models, still at value for money prices. Hornby, on the other hand, have had a few howling gaffes with their recent products and are asking top quality prices for models that don't reach that standard. Whilst I can't imagine that the UK model railway section of the business is responsible for this profit warning, I can't help but think that my observation may be a symptom of wider malaise within the organisation. Witness the different approaches taken by the two companies recently with regard to customer service in the face of problems with new releases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2012 Also I fear that Hornby as a group overall are stretching themselves too far. I feared something like this would happen a couple of years ago and it was the downfall of Corgi who Hornby subsequently snapped up. Too much diecast models of obscure nonsense at vastly over inflated prices as the diecast market collapsed (or in the case of the bus market, almost completely imploded). There seems to be an awful lot of manufacturing resources being used on non core items, the Olympic Games souvineer tat that is just old Corgi 'anyscale' diecast decorated in horrendous colours and exorbitantly over priced being just the most recent example. It is all sitting around in shops right now and no one seems to want it, they are going to get stung when it all winds up in the bargain bins come September. The recent news they are diversyfying into horses and other such franchised nonsense is just more worrying news and then there is the seeming lack of enthusiasm of Hornby in dealing with the Chinese factories who to be honest need a firm kick up the jaksi as previously excellent standard of manufacturing and time keeping have slipped into a almost 1970's British Leyland stylee culture of shoddy time keeping and the 'its close enough, that will do' attitude to finished product. Stick to the core markets, keep the franchised stuff to dependable markets (Thomas, Harry Potter, etc) and stay away from the range cheapening bargain bin tat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Interesting that Hornby manage to have a drop in profits in a year when the toy market has bucked the economic trend and actually seen some modest growth. That says to me that their foray into the wider toy market appears to be badly pitched or plain wrong. I concur with what has been said elsewhere, the Corgi range is definately way off trend, the tie-in with Atlas editions to release cheaper versions of existing releases to the "Sunday Supplement" market who may not be bus collectors per se would seem an indication that Corgi have misread the bus collecting market which is far more subdued than it once was. What is even more ironic is that Bachmann appear to have also bucked the economic trend and put in a good set of figures. Whilst I'm sure Bachmann are pleased with their awards, I'm sure the financial results are far more pleasing. If Bachmann can turn in a good set of figures based mainly on adult models (possibly more vulnerable to general economic trends) without any substantive toy market, yet Hornby lay an egg despite having a greater presence in the (relatively) buoyant toy and Continental markets, if I was a Hornby shareholder I'd be asking serious questions about Hornby's management and marketing, it seems the company has become over-stretched and in so doing has managed to lose key markets whilst not satisfactorily performing in the newer market segments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Moved from the New Releases thread. The Hornby Chairman is quoted as saying: "It is proving extraordinarily difficult to predict sales accurately in these turbulent markets… in anticipation of continuing difficult trading conditions, we have adapted our business to offer a wider range of products at lower price points in categories complementary to our core business." We've long closed the books on the cheap toys thread. Regrettably, the Interim Management Statement and Trading Update is not surprising news and it's not a good day when expectations have to be reset down for shareholders. Most of the statement emphasized their strategy of broadening price points away from "high ticket Hornby and Scalextric items" with licenced toys. I don't want to tediously rehash old thread content but do want to share one new datapoint I saw for the first time - the Hornby mission statement. The final quote from the Hornby Chairman reads: The successful acquisition of a number of important global licenses reinforces our mission statement: "To be the most successful model, hobby and collectable toy company in the world". There are a number of conclusions that can be drawn, but the notion that licensing is central to Hornby's business stategy is very clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted January 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2012 If it is set sales that are stinging them it's hardly suprising. Sets seem to be their best sellers, but of late the prices seem to be extortionate. If they want to suceed they need to compete with other products on price, through intiatives like railroad we can see some of this but they need to try and come up with a set for £50-70 pounds. The price needs to compete with the new game market (around £50) for the christmas present slot. I'm not suggesting that they should churn out flying scotsman sets for bargain prices but the wee puffers, circle of track, a couple of wagons and a transformer need to be more competitive. Thre are usually sets of the sort you describe to be had around the 50 quid mark, admitedly mostly the stupid RRPs:- http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004BUM0YE/ref=nosim/?tag=hotukdeals-21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdseyecircus Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Also how much has the Olympics costs Hornby? All produced and just sat on the shelves, ready to be dumped in the bargain bins in August, not to mention licensing costs too. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The recent news they are diversyfying into horses and other such franchised nonsense is just more worrying news and then there is the seeming lack of enthusiasm of Hornby in dealing with the Chinese factories who to be honest need a firm kick up the jaksi as previously excellent standard of manufacturing and time keeping have slipped into a almost 1970's British Leyland stylee culture of shoddy time keeping and the 'its close enough, that will do' attitude to finished product. I think there's more to be drawn out of a British Leyland analogy. BL products were shoddily built, took too long to come out and were often about 20 years out of date and lagging behind their competitors when they did come out.... ring any bells!? BL also seemed to work on the presumption that people would continue to mindlessly purchase brands that they always had and wouldn't shift to foreign brands (in our case there's Dapol as well, but Heljan and Bachmann are busy nicking trade). Finally BL was, up to the Ryder report era, hopelessly hyper-extended in terms of brands across various sectors. As for the olympics it worries me that they are putting so much onto it all of the products I have seen are naff... including the velodrome which uses the awful micro-scalextric setup. They've also done Olly the White Van, which wil clearly be a disaster, and have proceeded to buy up everything in reach. My main concern now is that should Hornby PLC go we lose alot of our historic brands in one massive sweep. Thre are usually sets of the sort you describe to be had around the 50 quid mark, admitedly mostly the stupid RRPs:- http://www.amazon.co...g=hotukdeals-21 And therein lies the problem, I've spent plenty of time chatting to my LMS owner and he's made it pretty clear that to make money he has to sell for RRP (he can negotiate around 10% off but thats the limit). Hornby set stupidly high RRPs and half the places where people go to get the sets are selling them for the RRP... it's clear that the sets cost less than £50 for Amazon make it so for everyone before the pool dries up. Hornby products are edging towards bargain bin material.... which is worrying because it could mean that 1 years down the line no-one is willing to stock Hornby products outside of model shops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 GS62109.jpg GS62106.jpg https://www.Hornby.com/shop/london-2012-range/r7113-london-2012-olympic-stadium/ AZ9996.jpg . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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