Decorated Samples of Class 101

[GordonC]

Are any three car plain blue versions of this unit planned?

 

Dave.

 

There's been no 3 car versions announced yet at all, in any livery

[pheaton]

If you check the instruction sheet, which is photographed a few posts up, it tells you it's a loksound select.....

Can't see select on that instruction sheet or mine, and my ECoS says loksound v4 when detected with railcom

[Porcy Mane]

Can't see select on that instruction sheet or mine, and my ECoS says loksound v4 when detected with railcom

 

Second off last paragraph refers users to the online Loksound select manual. Don't know if that can be classed as conclusive? I wonder what JMRI ID's the chip as?

[pheaton]

Oh yes ☹ stand corrected! Hope your listening Bachmann thanks for being up front about it!!!!! that's the last factory sound fitted model I purchase from you!!!!!

[BR(S)]

Oh yes ☹ stand corrected! Hope your listening Bachmann thanks for being up front about it!!!!! that's the last factory sound fitted model I purchase from you!!!!!

 

Is this because there an issue with the decoder Bachmann have used?  I'm not familiar with the Loksound Select.

[cravensdmufan]

Oh yes ☹ stand corrected! Hope your listening Bachmann thanks for being up front about it!!!!! that's the last factory sound fitted model I purchase from you!!!!!

Sorry, I don't understand that comment. Is the Select an inferior decoder to those normally used by other sound project suppliers? And if so, what is the difference?

[Roy Langridge]

Oh yes ☹ stand corrected! Hope your listening Bachmann thanks for being up front about it!!!!! that's the last factory sound fitted model I purchase from you!!!!!

 

Where have they not been upfront? You bought a sound loco and it has sound. I can't find anything saying that you have not got what you asked for or that Bachmann told you in advance what sound decoder you were getting.

 

To be honest, I am not sure why a serious modeller buys sound fitted. The default sounds are not normally that great and I prefer to buy a plain DCC ready loco and fit my own sounds having perused the available sound options.

 

So in the end, are Bachmann wrong to use a cheaper decoder to keep the price down when, for the majority of their market, that is good enough? I liken it the discussion on here regularly about keeping costs down and that manufacturers should not fit sprung buffers etc. and that modellers can do it themselves.

 

Roy

[Andy Mac]

Don't quote me on this, but I suspect all future Bachmann sound fitted releases over time will end up being loksound selects.....

 

I know the Highlander set was a select, the permanent way set, and now appears that the 101, a mainstream release, has the select....

 

I think Bachmann have to be upfront about this, as I was expecting a full fat sound decoder in my 101 once the postie eventually delivers it down under.... or if Bachmann supplied the models in two versions, one sound fitted the other not, allowing us to decide which decoders we wished to fit....

 

I've got the Bachmann Dutch 47 pre ordered, I'll be extremely disappointed if I'm paying about £90 extra, for a select...

[pheaton]

Cravansdmufan the technical capabilities if the select and the loksound are afaik the same however the select cannot be reblown except with select projects and these cannot be created by 3rd parties like biffo howes etc etc so essentially your stuck with the sound on the decoder at the moment.

 

Roy Bachmann have gone down the route releasing popular liveries in sound fitted only locos so if you want an nse 101 you have to buy sound fitted, you have no choice! Until recently Bachmann had fitted the dcc factory sound with loksound v4s which I can reblow with my lokprogrammer (does that make me a serious enough modeller for you ;-)) the select cannot be reblown.... I'm sorry the rrp does not justify a select they haven't been upfront about it and have set a precedence by fitting loksound v4s to 95% of there previous factory fitted models the selects being restricted to trainset locos....are Hornby doing something similar....yes they are but they gave a different product name called TTS which you know is an inferior decoder compared to the digital sound line which is a reblowable loksound.

 

Can I suggest you edit the "serious moddeller" comment considering I own over 100 sound fitted locos I and probably others find a little bit condescending :-)

[Roy Langridge]

Roy Bachmann have gone down the route releasing popular liveries in sound fitted only locos so if you want an nse 101 you have to buy sound fitted, you have no choice! Until recently Bachmann had fitted the dcc factory sound with loksound v4s which I can reblow with my lokprogrammer (does that make me a serious enough modeller for you ;-)) the select cannot be reblown.... I'm sorry the rrp does not justify a select they haven't been upfront about it and have set a precedence by fitting loksound v4s to 95% of there previous factory fitted models the selects being restricted to trainset locos....are Hornby doing something similar....yes they are but they gave a different product name called TTS which you know is an inferior decoder compared to the digital sound line which is a reblowable loksound.

 

Can I suggest you edit the "serious moddeller" comment considering I own over 100 sound fitted locos I and probably others find a little bit condescending :-)

 

I did not meant to be condescending - from the comments you make it is obvious that you are a serious modeller, I was not sure why you were buying sound fitted locos from the likes of Bachmann and Hornby.

 

As for liveries, why not either wait for a rerelease or buy sound fitted, take out the sound and flog it on an auction site? If you are happy to reblow sounds the latter is probably a cheaper route.

 

One last point, the price difference (rrp) between the latest release of non-sound and sound 101s is £70. The difference for a Class 20 (which has a full Loksound 4.0) is £95. Perhaps they were being more upfront than people are giving them credit for?

 

Roy

[tarifa]

I don't think the Select decoder is re-programmable, so one is tied to the factory sounds and is less expensive than the V4.  But why on earth would anyone consider buying a sound loaded decoder at £105.

[GordonC]

I don't think the Select decoder is re-programmable, so one is tied to the factory sounds and is less expensive than the V4.  But why on earth would anyone consider buying a sound loaded decoder at £105.

 

Because the sounds are often better or are re-programmable with either different recorded sounds or even sound for an entirely different class

[pheaton]

Roy,

 

It used to be in the early days of DCC sound that Bachmann would release a sound and NON sound version of a model, or that there were a number of releases short after that in the same livery but a different number of a non sound fitted model.

That appears to have changed, taking both Pectinadea and the revised NSE 47 as an example, no versions of that have appeared without sound in pristine livery, which is for me more appealing than a factory weathered one, and there do not appear to be any on horizon either. So you could try and source a model on ebay for example with the sound removed.

 

Hornby have not done a transrail 60 without sound, nor have they done an RF liveried 08 without sound, or a petroleum 31 (all are common liveries) in addition to that most sound fitted models tended to be better value than model fitted separately, obviously thats changed with recent price rises, but thats some of the reasons. of my locos id say about 20 of them were factory fitted models, of which only 3 are yet to be reblown, and thats because 2 of them are selects....(including the 101) the 37 was the ex highland model and its price accurately reflected the quality of the fitted sound decoder.

 

as regards the price i did check the 101 at a well known liverpool retailer but the 101 has crossed several price rise boundries recently so it makes comparison difficult, but the closest 101 release to the NSE 101 is the blue and white model which predates the NSE one by a month, and as you rightly say that only retails for ~£60 cheaper, however i will point out to you that the price of a decoder to the trade is ~40% lower than what we pay from a reseller/distributor so for me the RRP still does not justify a select.

The other option you rightly pointed out is remove the decoder and resell on ebay, i wouldnt expect it to fetch more than £30 because people know the issues with them, and straight away you void the warranty on a £229-£260 quid model!

Without knowing its a select you cannot easily make an informed choice, if i dont like the sound on pectindea then its quite simple i send the decoder away or email a supplier for a sound file and reblow it, with the 101 your stuck with that sound unless you want to invest another £105 on a £229 model. But because this is not easily identifiable at purchase your only option is to hear the sounds before you buy and this is not possible in all model shops and as mentioned Bachmann have in my opinion already set a precedence by fitting the vast majority of non trainset locos with a reprogrammable loksound, they make no effort to differentiate that i can see on the website where as Hornby make it plainly clear.

 

All i think should be done is some sort of indication be supplied to the purchaser exactly what sound decoder is fitted before they buy the model....like Hornby have done they explain fully on the website the limits of TT sound and have product logos that differentiate between the 2

 

The only thing it does have in its favour is its actually quite a good sound project....a lot better then some of the other factory fitted models....but thats my opinion....it might not be someone elses.

[cravensdmufan]

Cravansdmufan the technical capabilities if the select and the loksound are afaik the same however the select cannot be reblown except with select projects and these cannot be created by 3rd parties like biffo howes etc etc so essentially your stuck with the sound on the decoder at the moment.

 

Thanks for that information pheaton.  Valuable information, as I have in the past purchased a few sound projects that I've not been that happy with and have had them reblown.

 

I really like the livery of this NSE Bachmann 101 but I really must go to a proper model shop and hear it in action before purchase.

 

Thanks again for clarifying the all important difference between the two Loksound decoders.

[NIRCLASS80]

if anyone is looking shot of the select let me know. Great decoder with 6 auxiliary outputs. Great for North American modellers

[MikeParkin65]

I have bought a number of factory fitted Bachmann loco's both new and second hand both for the convenience of having the speaker fitted, to gain experience DCC sounds potential and because it has offered a cheaper route to acquiring Loksounds than buying separately. it is a shame that Bachmann are moving to the Select and i agree that it should be clearer on the packaging that this is happening. There is a useful thread in the DCC Sound folder listing the chip type used in each model to date though it hasn't been updated since August and doesnt list the 101 - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83830-Bachmann-diesel-sound-locomotives-loksound-chip-versions/ 

[jjb1970]

I'm not a dccsound enthusiast but can see why this wouldbe an issue to those who are. If the products are marketed as a value sound offering (such as TTS) then it makes clear that you're getting a lower spec product. If it is sold on that basis then I do think that most customers will probably be perfectly happy with these cheaper versions (on diesels at least) and the lower price will expand the take up of sound for those who like it.

[tractor_37260]

if anyone is looking shot of the select let me know. Great decoder with 6 auxiliary outputs. Great for North American modellers

 

The Select specification may state it has 6 Aux outputs, however I tried and failed to get Aux 3 & 4 to power led circuits - they are in fact only low level logic level outputs........so it only has 4 useable outputs unless you add driver circuits for Aux 3 & 4....

[Norm81]

Dec Hornby magazine describes the Bachmann NSE 101 decoder as a "six-function ESU Loksound V4.0 decoder" which I could see causing confusion as that would imply it's a V4.0 not a select.