Rapido/Locomotion Models GNR Stirling Single

[GNR Dave]

Looking good Bill ! 

Too early for my layout, but I'm seriously thinking about one for the display cabinet.

For me, none of the 'faults' pointed out would be deal breakers. It still looks like a Stirling Single to me. If they can be corrected, great. If not, I'd live with them. It's also worth bearing in mind that the pictures on a computer screen are about 5 times larger than the model will be at 1:76.

 Having said that, if some of the concerns can be addressed, could I suggest that the cab windows look a tad small compared to the prototype in the comparison pics posted previously.  

[JSpencer]

My sympathies lie with Rapido and the difficult decision to be taken regarding early revealing of products - you're dammned if you do and you're dammned if you don't.....

I hope that Rapido is able to correct some if not all of the points noted however some are obviously due to early prototyping and will be corrected by appropriate production assembly.

Whilst this model and gauge is not my area of interest I wish Rapido well and hope that the finally delivered product lives up to the customers' expectations.

I don,t think the feedback has been hard to be honest, no one saying "I,m not buying it because of those faults" unlike some other threads.

I am confident that Rapido are aware of most. Me, I am glad it is progressing (I paid full, up front) as I was worried at a time that there might delays for various reasons.

And if any of the feedback pointed out something Rapido miss, so much the better.

[LocomotionatShildon]

Stirling Single update -

 

Following meeting you all York we have had loads of calls and emails regarding the release date of Stirling Single.

 

Can't be a lot more accurate at this stage on the release date, however we are still doing final tooling alterations and fine details improvements with an approx. delivery to the U.K. in  October (fingers crossed), however there is a history of past models being delayed - so hang in there we are looking forwards to this as much as you are.

Nearer the time if you have left a deposit we will be in touch to pay off the final balance. If you have not took up the opportunity to order please follow the link below. I will keep you updated when I have more info - Simon

http://www.locomotionmodels.com

[Dominion]

Dear Simon, thank you for continuing Locomotion communication on RMweb as Sandra had done.  

I am sure many of us will really appreciate it.

Regards, Tom

[Paperlad]

I just ordered a DCC sound version. I'm sure the little niggles will be ironed out, even if they're not, it'll still be a striking model.

 

PL

[Paperlad]

As an add-on to the above post, my credit card has already been charged the full amount for this model even though no delivery date is specified. If I'm honest, that was a surprise, as i would have expected to be charged only when the model was released for delivery. Obviously, I didn't read the T&C's properly!

 

PL

[Guest Midland Mole]

Are you sure you clicked on the 'Deposit' link rather that the 'Pay in full' link? The two are very close together so that would be easily done.

Alex

[chris p bacon]

As an add-on to the above post, my credit card has already been charged the full amount for this model even though no delivery date is specified. If I'm honest, that was a surprise, as i would have expected to be charged only when the model was released for delivery. Obviously, I didn't read the T&C's properly!

 

PL

 

I initially did deposit when it was first announced then added a second, as the money was just sitting earning nothing I opted to pay for them both. Each time the site took the correct amount.

I'm with Midland Mole and think you've clicked the full payment button instead of the deposit.

 

 

Luckily I'm a patient person..........although I have ordered a large box of tissues..........giggedy......

[Paperlad]

Yepo, I elected to pay in full.....however, I still wasn't expecting my card to be charged until delivery. Is this a crowd funded model?

 

PL

Edited June 13, 2017 by Paperlad

[chris p bacon]

Yepo, I elected to pay in full.....however, I still wasn't expecting my card to be charged until delivery. Is this a crowd funded model?

 

PL

 

No it's not crowd funded, it's an order from the NRM for Rapido to design and produce a working model on their behalf, it's likely that it may only have the one production run. (deduced from a couple of conversations)

 

It is clear on the website, you either pay a deposit with balance due when they hit the UK, or pay in full at order time. I paid in full when I had the money as it would only get used for more resin and plasticard.

[t-b-g]

Firstly, I applaud the NRM and Rapido for having a go at what has always been considered a very difficult prototype.

 

There have been several attempts at kits over the years and the same problems that crop up in a RTR model gave kit designers nightmares too.

 

I don't think it is a bad idea to compare model and prototype photos. How else are we supposed to know how good the model is? Sure it is possible to go OTT but if there is something that just isn't right, then we either don't talk about it in an "Emperor's New Clothes" kind of way or we do mention it, hopefully in a constructive way.

 

Looking at the cylinders/slidebar assembly, I don't think there can be any doubt that it is not quite right. Perhaps it has been a necessary compromise but my natural instinct is to suggest that if the cylinders were higher up, then you actually get more clearance for bogies etc.

 

The give away for me is the top slidebar, which is tucked away behind the valance on the prototype but is clearly visible on the model with a gap between the top of the slidebar and the bottom of the valance. If you look at the motion bracket on the model, it has a slot as if it is designed to fit against something but is almost hanging in mid air. It may be an assembly issue, an error or a necessary compromise but those who are suggesting that there is nothing wrong in that area are deluding themselves. I think it has also led to the piston rod/crosshead being forced into a funny position as the piston rod doesn't look parallel to the slidebars. That sort of thing makes me wonder if this particular test model has not been assembled quite correctly.

 

The top of the cylinder should be approximately in line with the top of the rear footplate but in the test model, it is almost level with the bottom of the valance.

 

It is down to each individual to decide how important these sorts of things are to them and if the models are sold out before they are produced then the manufacturers have to take a decision on whether to spend more time and money sorting out such things or to go to production knowing that more research and testing will add significantly to costs and time whereas a fault may only result in a handful of people deciding not to make the purchase.

 

It is a difficult choice and no answer will please everybody. I saw the loco at York and in the flesh, with no close up comparison, I was impressed. One in full GNR livery will be a real winner, faults or no faults! 

[JSpencer]

I will be flat out and honest and say I'm very pleased Locomotion and Rapido are doing a GNR single. I am also glad Rapido are sharing with us information on the development of the product and I'm glad people are giving feedback too. So far, I have not seen negative comments such as people saying they won't buy it because this, that or the other is wrong (unlike some threads whereby certain faults have proved to be deal breakers). I would also bet Rapido were already aware of most faults anyway.

 

We know there will be some functional compromises, having built some kits, I can start to imagine some of the thoughts they are going through, but overall, I'm personally very please on how this is all progressing and the choices made so far.

[chris p bacon]

I don't think it is a bad idea to compare model and prototype photos. How else are we supposed to know how good the model is? Sure it is possible to go OTT but if there is something that just isn't right, then we either don't talk about it in an "Emperor's New Clothes" kind of way or we do mention it, hopefully in a constructive way.

 

Looking at the cylinders/slidebar assembly, I don't think there can be any doubt that it is not quite right. Perhaps it has been a necessary compromise but my natural instinct is to suggest that if the cylinders were higher up, then you actually get more clearance for bogies etc.

 

The give away for me is the top slidebar, which is tucked away behind the valance on the prototype but is clearly visible on the model with a gap between the top of the slidebar and the bottom of the valance. If you look at the motion bracket on the model, it has a slot as if it is designed to fit against something but is almost hanging in mid air. It may be an assembly issue, an error or a necessary compromise but those who are suggesting that there is nothing wrong in that area are deluding themselves. I think it has also led to the piston rod/crosshead being forced into a funny position as the piston rod doesn't look parallel to the slidebars. That sort of thing makes me wonder if this particular test model has not been assembled quite correctly.

 

The top of the cylinder should be approximately in line with the top of the rear footplate but in the test model, it is almost level with the bottom of the valance.

 

It is down to each individual to decide how important these sorts of things are to them and if the models are sold out before they are produced then the manufacturers have to take a decision on whether to spend more time and money sorting out such things or to go to production knowing that more research and testing will add significantly to costs and time whereas a fault may only result in a handful of people deciding not to make the purchase.

 

It is a difficult choice and no answer will please everybody. I saw the loco at York and in the flesh, with no close up comparison, I was impressed. One in full GNR livery will be a real winner, faults or no faults! 

 

 

They would be horizontal if they had mounting pins on both ends..... :>)

 

I was careful to point out at the show, but will reiterate here, that these are the very first parts from the moulds, cobbled together in a hurry by the factory engineers and myself just before the show. They should not be considered as the final product. There will be numerous small changes based on a review of these samples. Also, some of the parts did not yet have mounting holes (brake rods!) and the wire parts are hand-formed and several mounting screws were missing - most notably the ones at the front that pulled the smokebox down onto the cylinder block.

 

Having said all that, I was pretty happy with the way that they looked and operated!

 

Bill

 

 

I agree with Tony that it's not quite 100% but as Bill posted this is a first test shot from the moulds. 

 

I've ordered 2 and I'm not averse to taking the scalpel to ........one of them....

[mightymac]

Hi everyone!

 

Just thought I'd take a look and see how things are going with the Stirling single! I'm sure Bill will have everything ironed out when the models turn up and it will be just perfect!

 

It's getting ever closer so I hope you have a space ready for the day all these brown packages are delivered!

 

I'm now a 'lady what lunches' and thoroughly enjoying it! However I do miss the chatter and the 'frothin' from this forum and dare I say it... But you lot too!!

 

Here's hoping the single is a dream!!

Cheers

Sandra

[Hilux5972]

Good to see you back Sandra. Hopefully you will be a regular on here now you have leisure time lol.

[LocomotionatShildon]

A special update on the Stirling Single

 

 

Two days ago, we received the stunning 2nd EP pre-production sample of our OO Gauge model of GNR Stirling Single No. 1, so we thought you would love to see some great images.

The latest sample (photographs above and below) has performed extremely well over some complex and demanding track-work and both forward and reverse running are excellent. There is more detailing still to be added (like the front bogie splashers) as we proceed to the next stage of livery sample. Production will start shortly after that. Delivery to the UK is estimated to be later this year.

We are working very closely with Rapido to achieve the highest possible quality production, for which they are renowned. They will in turn keep us updated on the progress and date of release. Our Stirling Single No. 1 is going to be a cracking model you will love to have in your collection – there is still time to pre-order your model on our website – locomotionmodels.com. Avoid disappointment and order early as demand is expected to be very high for our first delivery.

 

 

[stewartingram]

Do we know the type of motor used?

 

Stewart

[Edwardian]

Looks most impressive.  Would Rapido care to comment on the points raised in posts #505 and #513? 

 

The cylinder casing still looks too low in relation to the front footplate, while the footplate aft the cylinder should be snug over the top slide-bar, but isn't.  If these are necessary engineering compromises to achieve a working model in OO, I'm sure everyone here would understand, but at the moment I am still looking at an apparent anomaly with no understanding of why the model is like that or if it will change. 

 

Otherwise I have to say it is looking superb. Well done!

[chris p bacon]

Looks most impressive.  Would Rapido care to comment on the points raised in posts #505 and #513? 

 

The cylinder casing still looks too low in relation to the front footplate, while the footplate aft the cylinder should be snug over the top slide-bar, but isn't.  If these are necessary engineering compromises to achieve a working model in OO, I'm sure everyone here would understand, but at the moment I am still looking at an apparent anomaly with no understanding of why the model is like that or if it will change. 

 

Otherwise I have to say it is looking superb. Well done!

 

If you look at the 1st image in close up you can see that there is the merest knats arse of clearance between the front wheel and the cylinder. Without the ability to run a rule over it, if we assume the cylinder is the correct diameter then to achieve a prototypical look will mean another compromise on the slidebars and their size. 

Having tried and failed to build a Single I have admiration for what Rapido have achieved so far, I expect there to be some inaccuracies and a certain amount of compromise as in 12" to the foot the clearances on the No1 are unbelievably tight and could never be produced in 4mm.

 

Edit to add.....I'm off to get some tissues...

Edited July 28, 2017 by chris p bacon

[Edwardian]

If you look at the 1st image in close up you can see that there is the merest knats arse of clearance between the front wheel and the cylinder. Without the ability to run a rule over it, if we assume the cylinder is the correct diameter then to achieve a prototypical look will mean another compromise on the slidebars and their size. 

Having tried and failed to build a Single I have admiration for what Rapido have achieved so far, I expect there to be some inaccuracies and a certain amount of compromise as in 12" to the foot the clearances on the No1 are unbelievably tight and could never be produced in 4mm.

 

Edit to add.....I'm off to get some tissues...

 

Thanks, Dave.

 

As my post hinted, I suspect such an explanation.  I just wanted some clarity from the horse's mouth, as it were.

 

Certainly won't put me off!

[Guest Midland Mole]

*drooling intensifies*

 

Alex

[CF MRC]

It looks very good. However, Edwardian is quite correct, the top slidebars should scarcely be visible: they are effectively masked by the valence of the footplate. On my model, they were in fact part of the footplate.

Not a major issue and would be helped by blacking the bars.

 

Tim

[MikeTrice]

Sorry, could not resist this comparison against sister engine 1008 image from Wikipedia:

[Hilux5972]

That confirms that the cylinder is definitely sitting too low. The smokebox sides look like they extend too far down, having the knock on effect of pushing the cylinder down.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

That confirms that the cylinder is definitely sitting too low. The smokebox sides look like they extend too far down, having the knock on effect of pushing the cylinder down.

Not so sure about that diagnosis.Just one of the major problems with this design in small scale model form is that the leading bogie flanges barely clear under the front footplating. So it could be that the front platform is slightly high relative to the other components - most visibly the front cylinder head cover - to buy a little clearance there.

 

...Having tried and failed to build a Single I have admiration for what Rapido have achieved so far, I expect there to be some inaccuracies and a certain amount of compromise as in 12" to the foot the clearances on the No1 are unbelievably tight and could never be produced in 4mm...

I am in the same boat, and not least of my interest in getting a RTR solution to a problem I have wrestled with for some time without a successful plan having been devised, is to see just what Rapido need to do to make Mr Stirling's magnum opus into a working OO model.

 

It is already looking far more like the prototype than the Kitmaster ever did (that would have been my 'economy' basis for  a DIY job) so Rapido are winning...