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Thorpe's trial & error


kitpw

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One or two fictional PO wagons would not go amiss at Swan Hill and a local merchant "Thorpe" has at least one wagon.  Now what to do about the livery?  The well known problem of printers - whether lazer or ink jet - not printing white suggests that a small signwriter is required... or is it a writer of small signs?  So, a thought: maybe I could print outlines onto waterslide transfer film and hand paint the lettering - worth a try?  The shading can be printed, black, red or whatever, so that takes away some of the requirement for a steady hand (which I have not got) and sharp eyes (of which I only have one good one).  First up then is to design/print (lazer).  The lettering is an adapted "font" which has been exploded in a CAD programme back to an editable outline and then adjusted to give a slightly bulkier letershape and shaded.  The transfers are printed direct from the CAD programme. 

 

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Then cut out and place on the wagon in this case a Slater's kit, more or less ex box:

 

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Then some white paint - actually, it's acrylic ink....the block of ice is the piercing out-saw table made of perspex which I also use to support hand/brush...

 

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then the other side...

 

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And to complete the job, some of the other details and a good deal of dirt:

 

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Like every good experimenter, some evaluation of the resuts is required....well, the sharp eyed will notice that the edges of the transfer film are definately not concealed by the dirt so a thinner carrier film is necessary: somebody will have tried this before and probably sourced a thinner film...get in touch and let me know!  Second thing I noticed is that the transfer film doesn't take paint very well, it's too glossy.  I sprayed the second side with a light dust over of matt acrylic varnish which improved matters but not that much.  A heavier matt coat would help.  I intentionally placed the lettering to avoid the lumps and bumps on the wagon side as the carrier film didn't like stretching over the obstructions - I've noticed a few PO wagons show the same disinclination by the signwriter to give themselves a hard time:  to that extent, there is some prototypical evidence.  Again, a thinner film would perhaps allow the more common approach of trying to paint a letter over a wagon strap and latch - which is pretty daft, if commonplace.

 

Trial and error- well it was a bit of a trial and there are some errors but running in a train of wagons, it looks passable as a first "go" so I'll leave it at that.  There isn't a cripple siding at Swan Hill anyway so it's on the layout or back in the box - I think I'll leave it on the layout. 

 

 

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I didn't realise that penetrant testing was documented so far back, good research kipw. ( when I had a go with the stuff in the 1970s it was in two aerosol cans ) 

 

Another question arises. NE wagons , mid 20s . Fine . But split spoke wheels ? Are these recycled wheelsets, and would that be the reason testing was required ? 

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5 hours ago, Dave John said:

But split spoke wheels ? Are these recycled wheelsets, 

 

Possibly recycled and retyred centres. 

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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

 

No white wheel rims here, but of course just one place at one point in time:

 

gettyimages-90775351-2048x2048.thumb.jpg.e6f1db8a23788f7576123baa45d90cab.jpg

 

Caption:  Wagon building at Doncaster works, South Yorkshire, c 1916. Workers putting wagons together at Doncaster carriage and wagon works. At this time wagons were made from wood. Doncaster works, known as the Plant Works opened in 1853, making and repairing locomotives and rolling stock for the Great Northern Railway. At this time the works employed around 3500 workers. Source: Getty Images, embedding allowed.

 

 

gettyimages-90775349-2048x2048.thumb.jpg.2946bdda219ee9d635e0d4eebd7ce324.jpg

 

Caption:  Building wagons at Doncaster works, South Yorkshire, c 1916. The parts for the wagons are laid out in the foreground. Source: Getty Images, embedding allowed.

 

 

gettyimages-90775355-2048x2048.thumb.jpg.aeb4ac5073f3519c6ed7b24c0bdfa654.jpg

 

Caption: Wagon painting at Doncaster works, 1916. The man in the foreground in the bowler hat is the foreman, in charge of the workshop. Source: Getty Images, embedding allowed.

 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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I’m surprised that they were painting with sawdust & shavings around.  I’d have expected a good sweep up, before getting the paint out.

 

I guess the rather wooden appearance of the people might be due to keeping still for a longish exposure.

 

I’m also guessing there wasn’t much banter or discussion about last weekend’s footy, or anything else, judging by the foreman’s happy smiling countenance.

Edited by Simond
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kitpw

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Building wagons at Doncaster works, South Yorkshire, c 1916

A year later they'd have had the first Black & Decker electric drill but 1916, it's all hand work, handsaws, brace and bit and so on.  The other thing that struck me about these marvellous photos from the Getty archives - the paint shop is an absolute mess where the fabrication shop is relatively clean: somehow, I'd expect the opposite.

Kit PW

Edited by kitpw
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2 hours ago, kitpw said:

the paint shop is an absolute mess where the fabriaction shop is relatively clean

 

The wagon shop foreman had notice the photographer was coming; the paint shop foreman was caught unawares. 

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14 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The wagon shop foreman had notice the photographer was coming; the paint shop foreman was caught unawares. 

Probably explains the scowl!

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https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/swindon-works/carriage-wagon-works-12-shop/12c-shop-carriage-paint-shop-1950s-486158.html

is a photo of the destination board painting shop at Swindon.  It's captioned, wryly, that the boards were repainted when the destinations changed.   There is clearly some setting out of letters in advance of painting as the "ER" of "GLOUCESTER" is present whilst, from left to right, the "O" is in progress.  There are a couple of easels which perhaps are being used to trace off standard letter shapes (?).

Kit PW

 

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That sound much like the way I add transfers to wagons, to get the spacing right.

I don't know about the wagon works concerned, but in one of the HMRS "Southern Style" volumes I seem to remember that there is mention of using a bag of flour and stencils to give an indication of the shape of the lettering. I have read all but the first volume several times, but in terms of proof reading rather than looking for information.

Jonathan

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17 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

That sound much like the way I add transfers to wagons, to get the spacing right.

I don't know about the wagon works concerned, but in one of the HMRS "Southern Style" volumes I seem to remember that there is mention of using a bag of flour and stencils to give an indication of the shape of the lettering. I have read all but the first volume several times, but in terms of proof reading rather than looking for information.

Jonathan


“Pouncing”.

 

a cotton bag of chalk dust (I guess flour would work, but might get damp and go nasty) banged onto stencils with lines of pinholes, through which the powder passes & provides a dotted line to follow…

 

you can buy “pounce wheels” from dressmakers’ suppliers, or the usual online sources.

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42 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

the word "pounce" is familiar.

 

Derived from the action of a domestic cat, leaving small holes in one's clothes and skin?

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1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

Yes, chalk, not flour, and the word "pounce" is familiar.

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Derived from the action of a domestic cat, leaving small holes in one's clothes and skin?


Just remember to keep the “u” in the spelling and the pronunciation…

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11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Derived from the action of a domestic cat, leaving small holes in one's clothes and skin?

 

Birds of prey:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/pounce

pounce (v.)


1680s, originally "to seize with the pounces," from Middle English pownse (n.) "hawk's claw" (see pounce (n.1)). The earlier verb sense was "perforate, make holes in" (late 14c.). Meaning "to jump or fall upon suddenly" is from 1812. Figurative sense of "lay hold of eagerly" is from 1840. Related: Pounced; pouncing. A doublet of punch (v.).

pounce (n.1)
"claw of a bird of prey," late 15c., pownse, probably from Old French ponchon "lance, javelin; spine, quill" (Modern French poinçon; see punch (v.)). So called for being the "claws that punch" holes in things. In falconry, the heel claw is a talon, and others are pounces. Hence, "a stab, thrust" (c. 1400). In Middle English also the name of a tool for punching holes or embossing metal (late 14c.), from pounce (v.) in the special sense of "ornament by perforation." Clothing ornamented with cut-out figures was pounced.

pounce (n.2)
"an act of jumping or falling upon," 1825, from pounce (v.)

 

 

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