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GWR 2-plank and 3-plank wagons


Mikkel

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The first 2- plank wagon has appeared at Farthing, accompanied by a round-ended 3-planker.  

 

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The 2-planker owes much to Duncan, who kindly gave me one of his surplus 3D printed wagon bodies. Thanks again Duncan! I've been wanting to do a 2-planker since I saw Richards's early Opens some years ago.

 

 

 

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I’ve used the Swindon drawing in Atkins et al for reference, and the photo of Worcester built 19451 as the prototype.  Apologies to Dave for doing the same number as his 7mm 2-planker, but there aren't many prototype photos to choose from.

 

 

 

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The chunky brake-blocks were drawn up from the drawing and cut on my Silhouette, then laminated from three layers of styrene.
 

 

 

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Ribbed buffers from MJT. I had to fit a new floor as the old one cracked when I applied too much pressure. Still learning the ropes with these 3D printed materials.

 

 

 

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“I made this model all by myself”. I don't think so, mate.  A word of thanks to the small-scale suppliers who make this part of the hobby possible. Not to mention all the helpful modellers out there.

 

 

 

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Enough with the bleary-eyed stuff, let’s paint this thing black! This is brush-painted Vallejo primer, convenient when you're in a flat during the winter months. 

 

 

 

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Then a base of red, and some Archer’s “rivet” transfers. The latter stick best on a rough surface, I find. The Vallejo primer is slippery, so I waited till the first coat of matt paint was on. Good adhesion, might do that again. The photo makes my standards look more exacting than they are.

 

 

 

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Stephen - who is doing a Saltney-built 2-planker - spotted a flitch plate and other solebar details on the prototype photo, so I tried to replicate that. Thanks Stephen. Later Microsol on top, then matt varnish, then more paint.

 

 

 

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The finished wagon. The prototype photo shows the paintwork in a very worn state, but I decided to be more gentle, so that it doesn't stick out too much among the other wagons.

 

 

 

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Having said that, my phone camera doesn't capture the weathering well, I have noticed that before. It seems to just highlight the main colour scheme.

 

 

 

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I’ve also built a round-ended three-planker from a David Geen kit, I do like them. 

 

 

 

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On many of these the ends were soon cut square, but some were left alone and occasionally pop up in early 1900s photos.

 


  

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Lettering in process. The eyesight is slowly going downhill, but I swear: A glass of Jameson helps me to focus ;)

 

 

 

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I’m gradually switching from HMRS to Fox transfers. I prefer the method of the former, but the printing on recent HMRS sheets isn’t quite up to former standards. I’m told it’s hard to find a printer who can do the sheets well. I sympathize and hope the HMRS succeed. The dates are when the sheets were purchased. 

 

 

 

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The finished 3-planker. The wagon was started in our little forest cabin, under poor lighting. That does show in places, lesson learnt.

 

 

 

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The wagons together. It’s counter-intuitive, but the 2-plankers were actually an 1 inch higher than the 3-plankers.

 

 

 

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Here they are with my existing 3-plankers. I suppose that’s more than enough of these types for my 1900s yard. But I wouldn't mind a few more. Nancy Hoffman of Maine has 2000 umbrella covers, so I have some way to go. 
 

Edited by Mikkel

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A splendid collection, Mikkel.  I can't resist saying that I think the under frames should be red, though.  I like those Geen kits too but I've never completely finished mine, as usual.

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Mikkel,

A fantastic set of wagons.  I really must finish mine...

Duncan

Edited by drduncan
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I'm going to have to get a little forest cabin with poor lighting. If that's what it takes . . . . . . 

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A nice set of waggons Mikkel.  I must look out for some David Green kits, if there are any still left around.  Traeth Mawr is not far from GWR territory so I can justify a few GWR waggons, even pre pooling.

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1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

A splendid collection, Mikkel.  I can't resist saying that I think the under frames should be red, though.  I like those Geen kits too but I've never completely finished mine, as usual.

 

Thanks Mike. I'm still not convinced about the colour of the running gear. One thing holding me back is that I don't see other companies doing it around this time (1900s). On the contrary, the Barry and the Caledonian had red bodies but black running gear, if I understand correctly. Not that I'm certain at all!

 

 

15 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Mikkel,

A fantastic set of wagons.  I really must finish mine...

Duncan

 

Thanks Duncan, the 2-planker is very much thanks to you of course. I was especially impressed with the inside of the side planks, which are very nicely printed. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

I'm going to have to get a little forest cabin with poor lighting. If that's what it takes . . . . . . 

 

:) The brake gear and corner plates are a bit wonky, if you look closely. 5&9 mentioned a magnifier with LEDs around the rim recently, that might do the trick. It's amazing what a difference lighting makes. 

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Oh dear he's pulled ahead of me again. Entirely down to my idleness. I'm quite liking the Fox transfers too. I've not used the HMRS GWR wagon transfers though quite a few of their others. When the LNWR sheet was reprinted a couple of years ago, I got a couple of sheets. They're quite crisp. So I think it's a bit hit and miss. For early GWR I had been using a BGS rub-down sheet which required a good deal of patience but was rewarding in its own way. Flat, as the HMRS Pressfix transfers aren't.

 

I don't quite understand the statement about limited choice of numbers. One of the unusual features of GWR wagon modelling, compared to other pre-Grouping companies, is that numbering is known in detail, Lot by Lot. So there are several thousand numbers to choose from. But I've stated my principle of prototype fidelity before: always choose a class member for which there is no good photograph.

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26 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

A nice set of waggons Mikkel.  I must look out for some David Green kits, if there are any still left around.  Traeth Mawr is not far from GWR territory so I can justify a few GWR waggons, even pre pooling.

 

Thanks Chris. The latest status I have seen for the David Geen range is here:

 

Edited by Mikkel
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12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Oh dear he's pulled ahead of me again. Entirely down to my idleness. I'm quite liking the Fox transfers too. I've not used the HMRS GWR wagon transfers though quite a few of their others. When the LNWR sheet was reprinted a couple of years ago, I got a couple of sheets. They're quite crisp. So I think it's a bit hit and miss. For early GWR I had been using a BGS rub-down sheet which required a good deal of patience but was rewarding in its own way. Flat, as the HMRS Pressfix transfers aren't.

 

I don't quite understand the statement about limited choice of numbers. One of the unusual features of GWR wagon modelling, compared to other pre-Grouping companies, is that numbering is known in detail, Lot by Lot. So there are several thousand numbers to choose from. But I've stated my principle of prototype fidelity before: always choose a class member for which there is no good photograph.

 

Your Saltney wagons will be unique Stephen, and are scratchbuilt so it's only natural that it takes longer.  

 

What I meant about the wagon number: I like to model from a photo when there is one, and the number of good side-on photos of 2-plankers are very limited, as you know. I even got myself the HMRS journal issue that is referred to in the Saltney book, but the 2-planker depicted there is quite far in the background and partly obscured. 

 

PS: Regarding the HMRS sheets, I should have said that I have 3 sheets purchased separately in the past 2 years, with the same thick lettering, of which 2 come directly from the HMRS. 

Edited by Mikkel
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24 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Thanks Mike. I'm still not convinced about the colour of the running gear. One thing holding me back is that I don't see other companies doing it around this time (1900s). On the contrary, the Barry and the Caledonian had red bodies but black running gear, if I understand correctly. Not that I'm certain at all!

 

Your choice - no-one is certain :)

My thoughts are that GWR started with overall brown and finished with overall grey so why not overall red in between?

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If on the other hand you have a wagon with a certain number without a picture then whatever you build cannot be wrong.  :whistle:

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Plate 423 of the bible. An 1888 official ex-works pic of a P5 ballast wagon. The body and the running gear are different colours.

 

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Oh yes, very interesting Miss P. If we have discussed that one before I had forgotten. Surely on that one the colours are different. It does raise the further issue of the solebar colour though, which here seems to be the same as the running gear.

 

It's actually a very nice wagon. A tempting project.

 

PS: That white stripe on the solebar, is it known what it signified?

 

Edited by Mikkel
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2 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

What is a filch plate?

 

Gordon A

 

 

It's another way of spelling flitch plate.

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21 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

What is a filch plate?

 

Gordon A

 

 

17 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

It's another way of spelling flitch plate.

Just so long as it’s not spelt with an “e”...

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10 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Plate 423 of the bible. An 1888 official ex-works pic of a P5 ballast wagon. The body and the running gear are different colours.

 

Assuming that's the same photo as on p51 of my Atkins 1986 combined ed., I have to agree about the difference between body and frames.  I think, however, that Departmental and Permanent Way vehicles were often treated differently from revenue earning stock so I don't feel we can generalise from this photo.

 

Let's not forget that loco wheels were painted Indian Red, so it would not be unusual to use colour on the running gear.  I suspect that this particular vehicle had black frames with light grey body but that's just my guess.

 

According to my 1986 copy of Atkins (p75), at this period the white stripe merely indicated the centre line of 4 wheel wagons.  Later the stripe indicated the cross-cornered DCIII brake.

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Very handsome indeed Mikkel. I particularly like the round end wagon, there’s definitely something about them!

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Very good looking and really useful rake of wagons. Never tried Jameson’s as a vision aid, just drink it anyway.

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7 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

Assuming that's the same photo as on p51 of my Atkins 1986 combined ed., I have to agree about the difference between body and frames.  I think, however, that Departmental and Permanent Way vehicles were often treated differently from revenue earning stock so I don't feel we can generalise from this photo.

Must admit that in my memory, red is for revenue producing wagons, and grey for non-revenue stock (including brake vans), but I am bothered if I can remember why I think that. I also incline to the view that one all-over colour, as in the wagon grey, followed the precedent set by all over red, but we are unlikely to ever know, short of inventing a time-machine that is able to break the Wellsian paradox of going back in time to before it was invented...

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13 hours ago, Gordon A said:

What is a filch plate?

 

Gordon A

 

 

Yes sorry, my mistake. The flitch plate here seems to be a repair.

 

On a related note, Atkins et al mention flitched frames, i.e. "iron solebar plates on wooden frames" (p.272) on lot osL211 3-plankers in 1880. I take that to be an intermediate step between wooden and iron underframes.

 

6 hours ago, 5&9Models said:

Very handsome indeed Mikkel. I particularly like the round end wagon, there’s definitely something about them!

 

Thanks Chris, yes the round-ended ones are my favourites. There is one here at Windsor Street Goods in 1903  (second track from the front, third wagon): https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwra3641.htm.

 

According to Atkins, the 2-plankers also initially had rounded ends, although I have never seen any further evidence of that. Perhaps he means broad gauge.

 

6 hours ago, ullypug said:

That's a very nice selection Mikkel. Well done!

 

Thanks Andrew. They have been running this evening. The couplings do rather stick out in the photos above (despite being the 3mm scale S&Ws), but on the plus side they can be used in service immediately :)

 

 

3 hours ago, Northroader said:

Very good looking and really useful rake of wagons. Never tried Jameson’s as a vision aid, just drink it anyway.

 

Thanks NR, I fully agree with your advice on the whiskey.

 

Speaking of which, I am thinking of doing some loads for the wagons. There is a very nice photo of 6 large barrels (hogsheads, I think) of Welsh whisky being loaded on to a GWR 3-planker at Frongoch. The two planker will probably have a load of beer barrels.

 

Edited by Mikkel
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10 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

Assuming that's the same photo as on p51 of my Atkins 1986 combined ed., I have to agree about the difference between body and frames.  I think, however, that Departmental and Permanent Way vehicles were often treated differently from revenue earning stock so I don't feel we can generalise from this photo.

 

Let's not forget that loco wheels were painted Indian Red, so it would not be unusual to use colour on the running gear.  I suspect that this particular vehicle had black frames with light grey body but that's just my guess.

 

According to my 1986 copy of Atkins (p75), at this period the white stripe merely indicated the centre line of 4 wheel wagons.  Later the stripe indicated the cross-cornered DCIII brake.

 

Thanks Mike, I hadn't noticed mention of the white stripe. I wonder why it would be necessary to know the centre line. For loading maybe. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Must admit that in my memory, red is for revenue producing wagons, and grey for non-revenue stock (including brake vans), but I am bothered if I can remember why I think that. I also incline to the view that one all-over colour, as in the wagon grey, followed the precedent set by all over red, but we are unlikely to ever know, short of inventing a time-machine that is able to break the Wellsian paradox of going back in time to before it was invented...

 

That's interesting Simon. Grey for non-revenue stock, that would explain why brake vans were grey when other stock was red. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

That's interesting Simon. Grey for non-revenue stock, that would explain why brake vans were grey when other stock was red. 

Although it has consistent internal logic, that may be post hoc ergo propter hoc rationalisation, unless I can find a reference!

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Well the best I have on that is the infamous 1896 article in Moore's Monthly"A light red colour is adopted for the wagon stock with white lettering, but the goods brakes are a dark grey." Though as I have said before, I am a little sceptical of some of the observations in that article.

 

Edit: And also of course "dark red, also grey" in the October 1904 article in the Railway Magazine, but that could just refer to the livery change which would have been ongoing at that time if the 1904 change date is correct.

 

Edited by Mikkel
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Some lovely additions to the fleet there Mikkel.

 

Liking that second pic showing the cast body with the brass and white metal additions - final pics look fab :yes:

 

 

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