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What was the difference between the 3 types of Lowfit wagons seen in the 50's and 60's? One had 3 straps up the side, which were ex-LMS. The other was a rugged-looking steel body wagon with around 5 support beams up the side, and had a raised floor. The final was the same as the previous, but with 3 beams rather than 5.

 

Some have "not to be loaded with container" on the side, yet I see many pictures of these doing just that. Any clarifications? I know these were used to transport military vehicles, tractors, and vehicles of all kinds.

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Hi Evertrainz,

 

There was just one batch of LMS-style (wooden body) Lowfits with LMS 8-shoe brakes, under diagram 1/001.     All the other (steel) Lowfits were diagram 1/002, although there were slight differences to bodywork (number of strengthening struts on the sides) and different type of brakegear (LNER 8-shoe, BR 4-shoe, BR 8-shoe) for the various batches (details below).    All had the same planked wooden floor, so I'm not sure what you mean by raised floor.

 

As you say, typical loads were tractors, agricultural machinery and small military vehicles.   It would be interesting to see pictures of them carrying containers, because they certainly weren't meant to, as they lacked the chains and shackles of a proper Conflat to secure the container.

 

2107   B 450000-450399     Lowfit (wooden) 1/001 Wolverton Works 1950

2194   B 450400-451399     Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1951                                    

2340   B 451700-451899     Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1952

2420   B 451900-452199     Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1953

2461   B 452200-452399     Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957

2467   B 452400-452599     Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1955

2729   B 452600-452899     Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957

2998   B 452900-453449     Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1959

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

ps  was the wagon with the rugged body maybe a Pig iron carrier?

 

(edit to reformat Table and add ps)

Edited by AberdeenBill
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Yes - the Bachmann RTR one has the wrong chassis - it should be the 8-shoe LMS mentioned above

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Hi Evertrainz,

 

There was just one batch of LMS-style (wooden body) Lowfits with LMS 8-shoe brakes, under diagram 1/001. All the other (steel) Lowfits were diagram 1/002, although there were slight differences to bodywork (number of strengthening struts on the sides) and different type of brakegear (LNER 8-shoe, BR 4-shoe, BR 8-shoe) for the various batches (details below). All had the same planked wooden floor, so I'm not sure what you mean by raised floor.

 

As you say, typical loads were tractors, agricultural machinery and small military vehicles. It would be interesting to see pictures of them carrying containers, because they certainly weren't meant to, as they lacked the chains and shackles of a proper Conflat to secure the container.

 

2107 B 450000-450399 Lowfit (wooden) 1/001 Wolverton Works 1950

2194 B 450400-451399 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1951

2340 B 451700-451899 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1952

2420 B 451900-452199 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1953

2461 B 452200-452399 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957

2467 B 452400-452599 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1955

2729 B 452600-452899 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957

2998 B 452900-453449 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1959

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

ps was the wagon with the rugged body maybe a Pig iron carrier?

 

(edit to reformat Table and add ps)

Thanks for the reply, the rugged wagon I was talking about was a 5-strut Lowfit. The pictures I saw were on Flickr a while ago, but I can't find them. They were in a rake of mixed flat and low-open wagons, with some with containers, some without. They looked to be held down with the same means as the road vehicles, with ropes (chains?) holding them down at the end.

 

Would it have been possible to regularly spot a few of these with a loaded container in its bed? What about said unmarked Lowfits?

Edited by Evertrainz

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Get yourself a copy of Model Railway Constructor, February 1987.

.

Within it's pages there lurks a 'Datafile' article by Paul Bartlett & Trevor Mann.

.

It contains all you need to know about BR built 'Lowfits'

.

Brian R

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Get yourself a copy of Model Railway Constructor, February 1987.

.

Within it's pages there lurks a 'Datafile' article by Paul Bartlett & Trevor Mann.

.

It contains all you need to know about BR built 'Lowfits'

.

Brian R

AND http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit

 

I would also like to see any photo of one carrying a container. The rule that this shouldn't happen does seem to have been abided to, whether the writing is clear or not. Medfits and highfits were allowed to carry containers.

 

Paul

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Yes - the Bachmann RTR one has the wrong chassis - it should be the 8-shoe LMS mentioned above

 

But such an easy coversion with bits from Parkside and others if it's anything like the old Mainline product.

 

Even the underframe locating pips on the underside of the Mainline body gave perfect spacing for the new solebars for OO gauge

 

Andy.

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British Railway Modelling, November 1996 has an article entitled "Lowfit Lowdown" detailing the construction / bashing of various 4mm scale 'Lowfit' models.

.

Brian R

Edited by br2975

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The reason I was told that Lowfits were not to carry containers was that they could slide sideways and go out of gauge - there was no means of retaining them laterally. The LMS unfitted 1 plank flat was used for containers before 1948 and for a short time afterwards but also acquired the 'Not to be used for...' branding.

 

I've done several conversions of the Bachmann LNER body to the correct underframe and brakes and it is, as has been said, very easy.

 

fergies_1_zps3e26cf5e.jpg

Edited by jwealleans
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AND http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit

 

I would also like to see any photo of one carrying a container. The rule that this shouldn't happen does seem to have been abided to, whether the writing is clear or not. Medfits and highfits were allowed to carry containers.

 

Paul

I agree with Paul; I can't think I've ever seen a Lowfit loaded with a container, though I saw lots of Medfits and Highfits so loaded. The MoD were keen on the latter, as they didn't need to use chains, and the 'box' was secured from unwanted visitors. The nearest I've seen to a container on a Lowfit were the demountable tanks carried from Associated Octel at Hayle; the wagons were dedicated to this traffic, and had a wooden framework secured to the deck to locate the tanks.

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That being cleared up, does anyone have diagrams for the 5-strut Lowfit (diag 1/002)? Also, it'd be helpful if someone could point to a concise and clear picture of the 8-shoe brakegear, especially in the area behind the wheels, where the lever (?) pulls in the outermost brakes.

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That being cleared up, does anyone have diagrams for the 5-strut Lowfit (diag 1/002)? Also, it'd be helpful if someone could point to a concise and clear picture of the 8-shoe brakegear, especially in the area behind the wheels, where the lever (?) pulls in the outermost brakes.

 

Are these clear enough?

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit/h180434c5#h180434c5

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit/h180434c5#h151c5789

 

This form of brake was quite common on builds of BR wagons from the late 1950s onwards and could be found on conflats, various types of van, some shock vans and opens and doubtless other things. In 4mm scale, Rumney Models make a nice etch for this. It's a bit of a fiddle - inevitably, some of the parts are small - but makes up very nicely.

 

http://www.rumneymodels.co.uk/12.html

 

Adam

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That being cleared up, does anyone have diagrams for the 5-strut Lowfit (diag 1/002)? Also, it'd be helpful if someone could point to a concise and clear picture of the 8-shoe brakegear, especially in the area behind the wheels, where the lever (?) pulls in the outermost brakes.

The following pictures are from the instructions to my BR clasp brake chassis kit that Adam pointed you in the direction of. They should hopefully give you an idea of what was going on. 

post-13847-0-60278600-1435250689_thumb.jpg

post-13847-0-26455300-1435250705_thumb.jpg

post-13847-0-63106900-1435250719_thumb.jpg

 

I also did this drawing to illustrate the differences between various clasp braking systems which shows the layout of the BR clasp brake.

post-13847-0-41760100-1435250905.jpg

 

Justin

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I also did this drawing to illustrate the differences between various clasp braking systems which shows the layout of the BR clasp brake.

 

Justin

Good evening, Justin

 

Thanks for those drawings. I understand the first two, but it seems BR overcomplicated things with the 3rd diagram. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how they work. I've always had trouble seeing how brake riggings work, so could you please explain the motion?

 

Ron

Edited by Evertrainz

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Good evening, Justin

 

Thanks for those drawings. I understand the first two, but it seems BR overcomplicated things with the 3rd diagram. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how they work. I've always had trouble seeing how brake riggings work, so could you please explain the motion?

 

Ron

 

Well, your knee bones connected to your thigh bone, your thigh bones connected to your hip bone, etc etc etc.

Happy to help.

 

Mike.

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Good evening, Justin

 

Thanks for those drawings. I understand the first two, but it seems BR overcomplicated things with the 3rd diagram. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how they work. I've always had trouble seeing how brake riggings work, so could you please explain the motion?

 

Ron

Hi Ron,

 

The drawing that I posted isn't the clearest. I was in a rush and that was the one to hand. This should be bigger and so easier to see where everything was pivoted. The hangers are in magenta. Some of these are also pivoted on the underframe. 

post-13847-0-69360800-1435270317_thumb.jpg

It was indeed more complicated than the LMS & Derby ones (and indeed the LNER AVB) but it did have some advantages. There was only one adjuster (all the others had two, one on each set of clasp brakes), the arrangement of the clasp brakes was the symetrical so they were the same at each end (unlike the Derby one) and they were also arranged so that you didn't have to take the brakegear apart to get the wheels out. There is certainly more 'stuff' under the wagon as a result plus the lifting link brake levers on top.

 

The first hanger out from the centre of the wagon threw the direction of motion out to each end (a bit like the crank on the brakelever shaft on the LMS type) and was where the adjustment was provided, the next one out I think altered the amount of movement at that end so that the push/pull exerted at each end was the same then each set around the clasp brakes then contrived to change the direction of the push/pull and keep everything above the axles. If it helps the 2nd, 4th and 5th hangers (looking at the drawing from left to right) are pivoted on the underframe.

 

I hop this makes some sense, it's been a long day!

 

Justin

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Hi Ron,

 

The first hanger out from the centre of the wagon threw the direction of motion out to each end

 

Justin

Hello Justin,

 

Thanks for that detailed extra diagram. The first confusion I had was solved as I hadn't seen the very small magenta hangar on the outermost ends.

 

But, what still concerns me, is that the thin blue connection from the first hangar from the centre connects to the pivot/fulcrum of the first red lever. I know that when a lever is used, absolutely 0 force is exerted in any direction on the fulcrum pivot point, no matter what. Why did BR go about connecting these links to the fulcrum of the levers?

 

EDIT: I've attached your drawing, with my perceived directions of movement in green. The orange circles denote where the thin blue connectors are attached to the fulcrum.

 

Ron

post-25907-0-89486200-1435297299_thumb.jpg

Edited by Evertrainz

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But, what still concerns me, is that the thin blue connection from the first hangar from the centre connects to the pivot/fulcrum of the first red lever. I know that when a lever is used, absolutely 0 force is exerted in any direction on the fulcrum pivot point, no matter what. Why did BR go about connecting these links to the fulcrum of the levers?

 

EDIT: I've attached your drawing, with my perceived directions of movement in green. The orange circles denote where the thin blue connectors are attached to the fulcrum.

 

Hi Ron,

 

The key lies in the fact that the hangers are pivoted on the underframe and are not fixed. This means that the arrows that you've drawn and circled actually go the other way.

 

post-13847-0-63564500-1435304745_thumb.jpg

 

This arrangement is exactly the same as the hangers on the LMS and Derby clasp brake chassis seen previously. 

 

Justin

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Hi Ron,

 

The key lies in the fact that the hangers are pivoted on the underframe and are not fixed. This means that the arrows that you've drawn and circled actually go the other way.

 

attachicon.gifBR clasp brake drawing 2.jpg

 

This arrangement is exactly the same as the hangers on the LMS and Derby clasp brake chassis seen previously. 

 

Justin

 

Hello,

 

I hadn't seen the pivoting hangars, so wondered how any force would be exerted. Thanks for clearing that up, Justin.

 

So, does anybody have drawings for this wagon?

 

Ron

Edited by Evertrainz

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So, does anybody have drawings for this wagon?

 

Ron

See 5 above

 

Paul

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Hello,

 

I hadn't seen the pivoting hangars, so wondered how any force would be exerted. Thanks for clearing that up, Justin.

 

So, does anybody have drawings for this wagon?

 

Ron

Or, to save you scrolling back up the page to post #5

.

"...Get yourself a copy of Model Railway Constructor, February 1987.

.

Within it's pages there lurks a 'Datafile' article by Paul Bartlett & Trevor Mann.

.

It contains all you need to know about BR built 'Lowfits'......"

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Came to this thread hoping for an easy way to model a complete Ford train of cars in EM gauge. Looking tougher than first thought.

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4 hours ago, Michael Delamar said:

Came to this thread hoping for an easy way to model a complete Ford train of cars in EM gauge. Looking tougher than first thought.

Simplify and add lightness! Last month I was feeling pleased with myself because I worked out a method of doing clasp brakes with rocking W-irons, now I see that was just the start!

 

Thinking cap back on.

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