Kernow Model Rail Centre - Bulleid Diesel

[royaloak]

Mine has been dispatch  well done Kernow, just hope it arrives tomorrow now.

 

Quick question about the real thing, all my papers say all three locos had a speed of 90mph but on a wiki it says 110 mph.

 

Can anyone confirm this please?

A question for you-

 

Do you believe everything on Wikipedia?

 

90 seems much more likely especially considering the Southern didnt have any sections of track with a higher maximum than 90 at the time, and there wasnt much of that either.

[SRman]

A question for you-

 

Do you believe everything on Wikipedia?

 

90 seems much more likely especially considering the Southern didnt have any sections of track with a higher maximum than 90 at the time, and there wasnt much of that either.

 

My understanding is that initially 10201/2 went into service with a higher top speed, but were re-geared from November 1952 at Brighton Works (according to the SEMG article at http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/bull_1coco1_01.html) to limit the speed and give greater tractive effort. Presumably, 10203 entered service with the revised gearing from new.

Edited December 1, 2017 by SRman

[royaloak]

 

My understanding is that initially 10201/2 went into service with a higher top speed, but were re-geared from November 1952 at Brighton Works (according to the SEMG article at http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/bull_1coco1_01.html) to limit the speed and give greater tractive effort. Presumably, 10203 entered service with the revised gearing from new.

It says the bogies were regeared but it doesnt actually say which way, odd!

 

Going by your username you will know a lot more about them than I do so I will defer to your better knowledge.

[stovepipe]

The details are on the data page

 

Gear ratio Originally 17:65, amended to 19:61

Tractive Effort Originally 31,200 lb amended 48,000 lb

 

The change would imply top speed was around 105 mph originally.

[Arthur]

 

 Do you believe everything on Wikipedia? 

 

Why do people get so snotty about Wikipedia? It’s a very useful, easily accessed resource, largely correct (certainly for items of fact) and a useful springboard for further research.

If you find an error you can change it.

 

It would be incredible if such an enormous bank of data, assembled by humans, did not contain a few errors.

 

And having found a fact that raises doubt Mike asks here, ‘is this correct?’ Surely a very sensible approach to the use of Wikipedia?’

 

.

[mikesndbs]

A big black beast just arrived in West Sussex OMG 

[Ian Hargrave]

The details are on the data page

 

Gear ratio Originally 17:65, amended to 19:61

Tractive Effort Originally 31,200 lb amended 48,000 lb

 

The change would imply top speed was around 105 mph originally.

 

 

My Ian Allan ABC for March 1955 indicates 102021/2  te 48,000 lb.10203 te 50,000 lb.Whether or not the implied top speed of 100mph was reached in service is anybody's guess

[mikesndbs]

Looking at the instructions, it says after running in that it should be lightly oiled as indicated.

Shows the gear chain exposed, does anyone know how to open that, is it the bottom plate on the bogie that unclips somehow?

 

Thanks

[No Decorum]

Why do people get so snotty about Wikipedia? It’s a very useful, easily accessed resource, largely correct (certainly for items of fact) and a useful springboard for further research.

If you find an error you can change it.

 

It would be incredible if such an enormous bank of data, assembled by humans, did not contain a few errors.

 

And having found a fact that raises doubt Mike asks here, ‘is this correct?’ Surely a very sensible approach to the use of Wikipedia?’

 

.

A chap once told me that he would dream up something extraordinary, muck Wikipedia about to make it seem true and drop it into the conversation in the office the next day. When greeted with scepticism, he would just say, “Look it up on Wikipedia.” He can’t do that now; Wikipedia is much better monitored.

 

Another good example was the article on Spam Cans. A couple or more years ago, it stated that the BFB wheels made balance weights unnecessary. A week or two later, it had been corrected to the chain drive valve gear.

 

Arthur is quite right. Wikipedia is invaluable but check before you bet your house on it!

[mikesndbs]

Good evening everyone, so I have been getting ready and planning this video for ages and it took a good long time to film and edit also, lol but here it is my first review and loco history featuring the stunning Bullied 1CO-CO1 diesel of the Southern region. Hope you enjoy.  (sorry for the slip on HP output 1750 was what I meant to say)

https://youtu.be/GyK9D7KJL40

 

 

 

p.s. would be greatful to hear your opinions on this video and how I have produced it, too much narration? 

Anything you would prefer to/not to see?

Many thanks.

Edited December 3, 2017 by mikesndbs

[mikesndbs]

Good evening everyone, so I have been getting ready and planning this video for ages and it took a good long time to film and edit also, lol but here it is my first review and loco history featuring the stunning Bullied 1CO-CO1 diesel of the Southern region. Hope you enjoy. 

https://youtu.be/GyK9D7KJL40

 

By the way it was super easy to unclip the bogie bottom plate to add lube after its running in, did not really need much anyway, but here is a photo to show, I used two small flat blade screw drivers to unclip one side at a time.

 

And I fitted my chosen headcodes.

 

 

[phil gollin]

.

 

There are a LOT of US-centric "facts" on Wikipedia - try, for example, who invented the electric incandescent lamp (hint, it was not Edison).

 

Likewise, Edison did NOT invent the scientific research Laboratory (and a load of other things).

[No Decorum]

Good evening everyone, so I have been getting ready and planning this video for ages and it took a good long time to film and edit also, lol but here it is my first review and loco history featuring the stunning Bullied 1CO-CO1 diesel of the Southern region. Hope you enjoy. 

https://youtu.be/GyK9D7KJL40

Excellent, Mike, thank you. It looks weird with the buffer beam attached to the bogie and going all over the place but the real ones were just the same. Decent looking mechanism.

[Dunsignalling]

.

 

There are a LOT of US-centric "facts" on Wikipedia - try, for example, who invented the electric incandescent lamp (hint, it was not Edison).

 

Likewise, Edison did NOT invent the scientific research Laboratory (and a load of other things).

But he was the second really world-class self-publicist; the first being Isaac Newton.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Arthur]

.

 

There are a LOT of US-centric "facts" on Wikipedia - try, for example, who invented the electric incandescent lamp (hint, it was not Edison).

 

Wiki cites 14 other, non US names as being pioneers in the development of the electric light bulb before Edison gets a mention.

 

It also mentions this

 

“In addressing the question of who invented the incandescent lamp, historians Robert Friedel and Paul Israel list 22 inventors of incandescent lamps prior to Joseph Swan and Thomas Edison.”

 

No where does it state that Edison invented the light bulb. It credits him with early efforts to create a commercial bulb and getting a patent.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

 

.

[John M Upton]

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never be sure of their authenticity"

Abraham Lincoln

[DavidB]

My Ian Allan ABC for March 1955 indicates 102021/2  te 48,000 lb.10203 te 50,000 lb.Whether or not the implied top speed of 100mph was reached in service is anybody's guess

Some additional corroboration from 'The Southern since 1948' by Geoffrey Freeman Allen: "The pair were turned out optimistically geared for a maximum speed of 110mph, which so far as I am aware was never put to the proof. Between two series of dynamometer car trials on the Exeter road in 1952, however, No10202 was sensibly regeared for a top speed of 85mph and enhanced tractive effort, and round about the same time No10201 was similarly modified. Both machines also had their continuous power rating stepped up to 1,750hp."

 

He then goes on to give details of their activities in 1953: "Unfortunately the two Southern units were a prey to defects in 1953 and the South Western was not a persuasive display window for main line diesel traction that year, especially during the summer rush.....One Southern diesel was supposed to work the 02.40 Waterloo - Bournemouth West and the 07.20 back, then the down 'Atlantic Coast Express' and 16.30 return from Exeter. The other was allocated the 08.30 Waterloo - Weymouth and 13.25 back, then the 18.00 Waterloo - Exeter and the 22.40 Exmouth Junction - Nine Elms freight. All too often that summer these routines were more honoured in the breach than the observance."

 

David

[mikesndbs]

 

I wonder if this was ever possible for real?

[SRman]

icons.jpg

 

I wonder if this was ever possible for real?

 

Not in those colour schemes. If the Bulleid was in BR green, then it could possibly have happened, if it had revisited the Southern Region.

[Floreat Industria]

I've just received an excellent but now rare book on 10201-3. It is "10201-3 on the Southern" Southern Way Special No. 1 by Kevin Robertson, 2007. It has lots of photos of building and in use on the Southern to 1955, some in colour. At the back there is a lot of technical data, which says max speed 10201-2 110 mph, as modified 85 mph and 10203 90 mph. I can thoroughly recommend the book. Now, where is my model of 10201? Hopefully on the way soon. I've just bought a Hornby King from Kernow for £69.99 and it's winging its way to me straight away.

[John Tomlinson]

icons.jpg

 

I wonder if this was ever possible for real?

 

At risk of being really picky I'd question if the Bulleid coaches in what looks to be BR (SR) green would have run with 10201 in black - I'd thought the green coaches were post '56 with the big 102xx's having gone to the LMR and green by then.

 

Have to say the combination in your picture looks really glorious, and as I get older my pedantry on strict accuracy seems to be subsiding, for which I'm very grateful!

 

John.

[Dunsignalling]

At risk of being really picky I'd question if the Bulleid coaches in what looks to be BR (SR) green would have run with 10201 in black - I'd thought the green coaches were post '56 with the big 102xx's having gone to the LMR and green by then.

 

Have to say the combination in your picture looks really glorious, and as I get older my pedantry on strict accuracy seems to be subsiding, for which I'm very grateful!

 

John.

There were still plenty of re-lettered SR green Bulleids around when 10201 entered service, though the Bachmann models have the deep window vents of the BR-built coaches.

 

I'm not certain, but it's also likely that some BR-built Bulleids were finished in SR green before the adoption of crimson/cream. The decision on the latter wasn't taken until over a year after nationalisation.

 

John

Edited December 4, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[nnich]

So here is a question that just occurred to me ( no idea why). Why was the first build numbered 10201 and not 10200. The first LMS twin was 10000 not 10001.

Norm

[Dunsignalling]

So here is a question that just occurred to me ( no idea why). Why was the first build numbered 10201 and not 10200. The first LMS twin was 10000 not 10001.

Norm

Because from the introduction of Mr Bulleid's locos onwards, the Southern Railway and Region commenced new number series at xxxx1.

 

John  

[adb968008]

Because from the introduction of Mr Bulleid's locos onwards, the Southern Railway and Region commenced new number series at xxxx1.

 

John

 

But bulleid used continental practice for numbering .. 21c.. etc for Pacific’s, Cxx for the Q1

So presumably it should have been 1CC1201 ?

 

My impression of Bulleid is (select as you feel) strange/alternative/eccentric/experimental/academic/unconventional person.

 

Given only his Coaches were the only adoption by BR in a close to original form it’s obvious he didn’t fit the mould and his ideas weren’t optimum. My guess is he got the position based off his European experiences, which during the war was seen as a useful source of knowledge and used that position to experiment his own ideas. Post war he was thanked for his efforts and pushed to a quieter siding in a rural place :/)

Fascinating historical contribution, very thought provoking and an interesting diversionary branch of Railway evolution, which but for the war probably wouldn’t have happened.

I bet the SR board room was an interesting place during his tenure wasn’t the Bulleid Pacific originally proposed as a 4-8-2 and 2-8-2, I bet that made a few old leather back pipe smokers cough.

Edited December 4, 2017 by adb968008