Not for Peter, Pete's Workbench

[Mr Grumpy]

that's a beautiful locomotive! 

I love seeing them in brass, almost seems a shame to paint them! (The way I paint it certainly is  )

[N15class]

Just to confuse the builder. The parts list for a LSWR/SR S15 class with both variations of the 5000 gallon tender.

 

We start with the right hand column Parts for the tender I just love the heading.

Next we look at the middle column near the bottom G-N. I must reread Bradley's to find out when they fitted rotary valves.

 

Looking at the instructions I think it was copy and paste without changing for the different loco. No test builds. On the section on the footplate it tells you to fold up and fit the splashers.

 

 

[N15class]

Made a start with the S15 today. Most of the tender parts are cleaned up ready to go,  need to make some parts for the bogies as I want to have the wheels removable for which the kit is not designed. As I need to think about it more I got on with the footplate. Strange I know but I need the stepped footplate to know what needs adjusting on the frames.

 

I put the so called jig together to build the footplate on. Then I split the plate at the fold line for the front drop, easier to to curve, then I split it at the rear the step up over the cylinders. The front drop and the top of the step arenow tack solder on. I wanted to then add the front buffer beam but it hangs below the jig, the jig needs really to stand another 6mm higher. also the front space on the jig is in the way of fitting the centre front footplate and the frame extensions. So notquite as useful as if it had beem thought through a little more.

 

 

Now to the rear step down. The footplate again needs spliting on the fold line which then keeps the main plate in the right place for cab front ect. But the bit left for making the drop needs to be shortened by 3mm to allow for the lower main plate. The fron of the main plate needed to be shortened at the front by about 2.5mm to allow for the little step behind the cylinders.These two bits and the drag beam aere tack on the drag beam will be removed because like the buffer beam it hangs below the jig.

 

 

Here is the tender bogie inner frame for the bushes to go in. As you can see I need to think about whether to use these or scratch build all the parts for a removable inner frame.

 

 

 

William's tab and slot always leaves a lot to be desired. here the cab side is located in its slot but is too far back. But the most concerning problem is that the only allowence in the kit for the stepped footplate is the side valances, the cab is 3mm short like the side there are no long splashers for the drivers.In reallity the kit is onlydesigned for the straigh footplate. The sides and front for the cab could of easily been drawn for the stepped version with a half etch line for the straight one, to me the biggest downer is the lack of footplate. If etched in parts a couple of half etch snap points and both versions could be done.

 

 

Time to write to William again and get an email reply telling me there is nothing wrong. He I doubt has built this into both versions, and never by following the instructions.

 

[Simond]

Peter

 

you may find this kit something of a challenge.  But you are not alone; http://westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/building-an-ace-kits-k.3766/

 

as the aprocryphal Irishman is reputed to have said, "ah, well, I wouldn't be starting from here"

 

watching with curiosity!

 

Simon

[Deano747]

Hi Peter

 

The first 7mm loco kit I built was an Ace N class 2-6-0. The tender went together really well but the loco had numerous misfits of parts! The opportunity of acquiring and building a DJH Fairburn 2-6-4t came along so the N got put on the shelf for now.

 

I shall be following your build to see how it goes together in comparison.

 

Regards, Deano

[Horsetan]

.....Time to write to William again and get an email reply telling me there is nothing wrong.....

 

Nice to know the spirit of "Elcrappo" kits is not dead in this day and age 

 

I'm sure many have asked themselves how Ace manages to keep going if the kits are that bad, and have been stumped for an answer!

[Deano747]

Nice to know the spirit of "Elcrappo" kits is not dead in this day and age 

 

I'm sure many have asked themselves how Ace manages to keep going if the kits are that bad, and have been stumped for an answer!

 

 

Sadly!   I bought it quite a few years ago and if I'd known, then I'd have saved for a better quality manufacturer! 

 

Regards, Deano

[N15class]

I had for gotton how big these 5000 gallon tenders are.

 

Here is the footplate against my G6

 

 

 

[N15class]

Peter

 

you may find this kit something of a challenge.  But you are not alone; http://westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/building-an-ace-kits-k.3766/

 

as the aprocryphal Irishman is reputed to have said, "ah, well, I wouldn't be starting from here"

 

watching with curiosity!

 

Simon

Not the first of Williams kits so I do know what to expect but never quite sure where it willcome from.

[N15class]

Nice to know the spirit of "Elcrappo" kits is not dead in this day and age 

 

I'm sure many have asked themselves how Ace manages to keep going if the kits are that bad, and have been stumped for an answer!

The trouble is like the old Jidenco range there is stuff that no one else does. But in amounst the dross there are some good ones. I know the O2 from the Meteor range is a nice build and there are a couple of ex Sansperil there too.

[N15class]

Hi Peter

 

The first 7mm loco kit I built was an Ace N class 2-6-0. The tender went together really well but the loco had numerous misfits of parts! The opportunity of acquiring and building a DJH Fairburn 2-6-4t came along so the N got put on the shelf for now.

 

I shall be following your build to see how it goes together in comparison.

 

Regards, Deano

His kits are certainly a hands on build. You cannot shake the box, The ones I have done ended up looking like the loco they were designed to be.

[N15class]

Peter

 

you may find this kit something of a challenge.  But you are not alone; http://westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/building-an-ace-kits-k.3766/

 

as the aprocryphal Irishman is reputed to have said, "ah, well, I wouldn't be starting from here"

 

watching with curiosity!

 

Simon

Thanks for the link I have been following the build.

[Horsetan]

The trouble is like the old Jidenco range there is stuff that no one else does. But in amounst the dross there are some good ones. I know the O2 from the Meteor range is a nice build and there are a couple of ex Sansperil there too.

To misquote Forrest Gump: "Ace kits are like a box of chocolates; ya never know what you're gonna get."

[N15class]

I may of been a little harsh towards William yesterday. After checking my books the cab front is the right hieght for the Urie locos. It is just the wrong shape, so actually harder to put right. I had forgotton that the Urie builds had the boiler mounted about 4 inches lower than the Maunsell built ones. So things I think will line up better. Also means smokebox is to high but thats a different story. Anyway email sent to William so I do not expect a reply any week soon.

 

Back to progress. I finished off the front of the footplate by fitting the frame extensions and the flat part. Now this end is ready for modifying the smokebox. I also removed and adjusted the rear step down, much happierwith it now. and finally I made up andfitted the curves for the rear of the step.

 

 

Now I need to make a small splasher type cover that runs fron just behind the little step to the cab. I think it just covers the top of the frames.

 

 

Having got the footplate to the right shape I soldered the main frmes together to make the adjusts to suit the footplate. They were to long to start with. and a notch at the rear seems to have done it.

Now to compensation? What to do? If I do three point on the drivers it is a very short triangle, I think this would be very unstable. My thoughts are to link the bogie pivot to the centre of the front driver on a rocking beam and use side beams on the rear two drivers. This means the bogie carries some weight the point of the triangle is further forward and all wheels have freedom. The big question is will it work?

 

 

 

I also made up the under tank frame for the tender so that I can see how the mountings for the bogie will work and if I can fit my ideas in. I also assembled a basic bogie, so I can see what to do with the the inners and the brakes.

 

 

Looking at todays efforts what was I doing the rest of the time.  I am pleased so far I knew it was not going to fall together and I have pictures of what needs to be done in my head now.

 

[Deano747]

His kits are certainly a hands on build. You cannot shake the box, The ones I have done ended up looking like the loco they were designed to be.

 

Yes I can see that. I will go back to it eventually, and I'm sure it will end up a presentable likeness to the real thing, my abilities allowing!! 

 

Regards, Deano.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Deano747

[Michael Edge]

 

 

Having got the footplate to the right shape I soldered the main frmes together to make the adjusts to suit the footplate. They were to long to start with. and a notch at the rear seems to have done it.

Now to compensation? What to do? If I do three point on the drivers it is a very short triangle, I think this would be very unstable. My thoughts are to link the bogie pivot to the centre of the front driver on a rocking beam and use side beams on the rear two drivers. This means the bogie carries some weight the point of the triangle is further forward and all wheels have freedom. The big question is will it work?

 

Yes this will work very well but I use two beams at the front end, fitted inside the frames to carry the leading axle and bent together to meet around the bogie pivot.

[Simond]

I may of been a little harsh towards William yesterday. After checking my books the cab front is the right hieght for the Urie locos. It is just the wrong shape, so actually harder to put right. I had forgotton that the Urie builds had the boiler mounted about 4 inches lower than the Maunsell built ones. So things I think will line up better. Also means smokebox is to high but thats a different story. Anyway email sent to William so I do not expect a reply any week soon.

 

Back to progress. I finished off the front of the footplate by fitting the frame extensions and the flat part. Now this end is ready for modifying the smokebox. I also removed and adjusted the rear step down, much happierwith it now. and finally I made up andfitted the curves for the rear of the step.

 

c.jpg

b.jpg

d.jpg

a.jpg

 

Now I need to make a small splasher type cover that runs fron just behind the little step to the cab. I think it just covers the top of the frames.

 

 

Having got the footplate to the right shape I soldered the main frmes together to make the adjusts to suit the footplate. They were to long to start with. and a notch at the rear seems to have done it.

Now to compensation? What to do? If I do three point on the drivers it is a very short triangle, I think this would be very unstable. My thoughts are to link the bogie pivot to the centre of the front driver on a rocking beam and use side beams on the rear two drivers. This means the bogie carries some weight the point of the triangle is further forward and all wheels have freedom. The big question is will it work?

 

e.jpg

 

 

I also made up the under tank frame for the tender so that I can see how the mountings for the bogie will work and if I can fit my ideas in. I also assembled a basic bogie, so I can see what to do with the the inners and the brakes.

 

f.jpg

g.jpg

 

Looking at todays efforts what was I doing the rest of the time.  I am pleased so far I knew it was not going to fall together and I have pictures of what needs to be done in my head now.

 

 

 

yes it will!

[Simond]

It will work, but the front axle must be allowed to rock from side to side, you get the two pivot points of the rear beams as two legs of the stool, and the central pivot of the equalising lever between bogie and front axle as the otehr. 

 

I'm not sure how Michael's suggestion allows the front axle to rock.  The bogie must of course rock fore and aft and side to side too.

 

best

Simon

[Michael Edge]

The leading axle can rock since it is held in two beams, one each side, which can move independently. The three legged stool is formed by the bogie pivot and the two beam pivots.

[Simond]

Ah, ok, got it now!

 

Best

Simon

[N15class]

Yes this will work very well but I use two beams at the front end, fitted inside the frames to carry the leading axle and bent together to meet around the bogie pivot.

I had thought about side beams going to the bogie pivot. Where abouts along the length do you put the beam pivot? Central to the beam, or closer tothe driving wheeltoadd load to that? I was going to put both beam pivots towards the outer drivers just by a 2mm or so to load the outer drivers very slightly. Or is it best to stick with a quarter of the weight on the each of the drivers and bogie.

[N15class]

As I only have a short time at the bench on Wednesdays as domestic duties take priority, I had a sort of vague and inconsistent list of things done.

 

I made the cab front into a Urie type. This needed the roof radius altering to leave a small flat on each side. I can now add the specticles before igets fitted, sometime inthe future.

 

 

I also cut 3mm off of the smokebox front, the half etched groove needs filling and moving up a little.

 

 

 

I also had a play with the side sheets. The height from the top of the step is correct but the drop is far togreat forthe stepped footplate. I thought I may be able totrim the bottom. This would of worked nicely until I put the side ontothe drawing.

 

 

 

With this little fault to fix I moved onto the frames instead. I marked out what I hope will work for the compensation beams. These were then cut out and now just need holes drilling once I have sorted out where the pivot points will be. While on the frames I moved the brake hanker holes as thefront onewas under the middle wheel. I have laid the beams on the frames to see how well my ides will work. The front one may change as we go along.

 

 

Maybe tomorrow will be more focused.

 

[Simond]

Mmm, Pete,

 

Not sure about the front beam, with a sprung pin, at all.

 

How about a fixed pin, upon which the bogie can rock, roll & twist, and a beam that has a pair of fingers at the front, perhaps pressing on a washer that sits on top of the bogie? The other end can sit in the middle of the axle, or as Michael suggested, it could be a double beam, I guess a bit like two halves of a wishbone in plan view.

 

Regarding position of the pivot, I doubt it is very important, as you will be able to add enough weight to get the traction you want, so I'd aim for somewhere in the middle. I suppose there might be other gubbins that might impact that decision.

 

HTH

Simon

[Michael Edge]

I usually put the beam pivot as near centre as the position of the trailing bogie wheel will allow, definitely not springs as well - one or the other system only.

Some photos of my 7mm H15

Drive is on the fixed trailing axle, driving axle runs in swinging arms pivoted near the trailing axle. These arms are 1/16" brass, this axle is lightly sprung with p/b wire.

This shows the beams between the leading axle and the bogie, again 1/16" brass

Same view with the bogie removed, this loco is now 19 years old and there is no significant wear on any of the bearing surfaces, no bushes in the beams, the axles run in plain holes. The frames are drilled with a larger hole, this allows enough up and down movement, construction procedure was to make the coupling rods first, then use them to jig drill the frames and beams. The top of the bogie stretcher has two rubbing plates fitted, either side of the slot for the pin. The bogie axles are running in holes in the frames (.025" steel), again with no significant wear.

This of course is not full compensation, there are too many fixed points with a rigid driving axle, but it does work well in practice.

[Horsetan]

Looks like new cabsides are in order, then.