Q6

[Jenny Emily]

I finally got around to videoing my LNER one last night. 

 

[Guest Q663368]

The tender on 63395 is almost certainly not what it claims to be.  

 

 

63395 changed tender sometime around 1961 to the type it was built with (4195 gallon with round frame slots and coal rails sloping down at the ends).

 

It then changed tender in March 1965 then again on 30th September 1965 to the current one.  This tender is a 3940 gallon type and was new in 1911 attached to Q5 no.771.  However the box is now a 4195 gallon type.  I can't find a record of when it was rebuilt.

 

This gives it as having four or four-and-a-half tenders in BR days.

 

Hope this helps but it probably confuses more than anything...

 

 

Les

Hi Les, Could you please tell me if the Q6 tender changes are documented anywhere ?. I am compiling a spreadsheet covering the detail history of the class. Kindest regards, Alan

[Les1952]

Hello.

 

Some are documented in the RCTS Green Guide, others in the Yeadon Register but the whole thing is patchy.

 

Les

[Guest Q663368]

Hello.

 

Some are documented in the RCTS Green Guide, others in the Yeadon Register but the whole thing is patchy.

 

Les

Many thanks for responding to my request.

 

I agree, things are somewhat patchy. Reading the above mentioned publications, which I have, I can see where your deductions came from. The search will continue.

 

If I come across with a new source of info, I will let you know.

 

Kindest regards

 

Alan

[R Marshall]

The tender on 63395 is almost certainly not what it claims to be.  

 

 

63395 changed tender sometime around 1961 to the type it was built with (4195 gallon with round frame slots and coal rails sloping down at the ends).

 

It then changed tender in March 1965 then again on 30th September 1965 to the current one.  This tender is a 3940 gallon type and was new in 1911 attached to Q5 no.771.  However the box is now a 4195 gallon type.  I can't find a record of when it was rebuilt.

 

This gives it as having four or four-and-a-half tenders in BR days.

 

Hope this helps but it probably confuses more than anything...

Les

Les,

 

I know that you know the capacity of Q6 tenders, so a typo, presumably?

 

For the unwary - all large capacity tenders coupled to Q6s were 4125 gallons and I believe the current version with 63395 is no different.

 

Regards,

 

Roy

[Porcy Mane]

For the unwary - all large capacity tenders coupled to Q6s were 4125 gallons and I believe the current version with 63395 is no different.

 I don't know if the current tank has been rebuilt to the self trimming type? Looking at pics, the tank fitted to the current tender frame looks to have been replaced between withdrawal from BR service and appearing at the 1975 centenary celebrations. It doesn't have the repair plates welded in place when withdrawn from BR and as discussed in an earlier thread has modified drain holes for the rear deck;

63395 Sunderland 3.9.67 by George Woods, on Flickr

 

Looking at the valance width, the tank currently fitted to 63396 seems to modelled on the narrower but taller tank so I assume it has ratained the non self trimming configuration.

63395 by nxea321446, on Flickr

 

It ran off Sunderland shed for a while with a wide bodied self trimming tender as this pic shows.

 

I've read that when the infant NELPG originally  got their hands on 63395 they also managed to "acquire" a tender filled full of spares. It was never made clear whether this was the tender as fitted to the loco or completely separate tender?

 

P

[pete55]

 I don't know if the current tank has been rebuilt to the self trimming type? Looking at pics, the tank fitted to the current tender frame looks to have been replaced between withdrawal from BR service and appearing at the 1975 centenary celebrations. It doesn't have the repair plates welded in place when withdrawn from BR and as discussed in an earlier thread has modified drain holes for the rear deck;

63395 Sunderland 3.9.67 by George Woods, on Flickr

 

Looking at the valance width, the tank currently fitted to 63396 seems to modelled on the narrower but taller tank so I assume it has ratained the non self trimming configuration.

63395 by nxea321446, on Flickr

 

It ran off Sunderland shed for a while with a wide bodied self trimming tender as this pic shows.

63395-ST-Tender.jpg

 

I've read that when the infant NELPG originally  got their hands on 63395 they also managed to "acquire" a tender filled full of spares. It was never made clear whether this was the tender as fitted to the loco or completely separate tender?

 

P

 

Reading NELPG's North Eastern Revival booklet from the 1980's, they state the tender of the Q6 was becoming full of tools and spares so they bought a 10ton box van to store these in, not acquired another tender. As far as I know, it came with the tender it was withdrawn from BR with. The J27 was the loco they did a tender swap with I think at that time. They did acquire another tender some time later, but this was a group standard one, so its better condition wheels could be swapped with those under the K1 tender. I believe the frames of this tender lurk somewhere around Grosmont.

The Q6 tender was the subject of a Manpower Services scheme in the mid to late 80's when NELPG had a base at ICI Wilton, when the chassis and running gear were fully overhauled and a new tank constructed. Presume its self trimming, but you could always ask a mutual friend who would know!

Edited July 19, 2016 by pete55

[R Marshall]

 I don't know if the current tank has been rebuilt to the self trimming type? Looking at pics, the tank fitted to the current tender frame looks to have been replaced between withdrawal from BR service and appearing at the 1975 centenary celebrations. It doesn't have the repair plates welded in place when withdrawn from BR and as discussed in an earlier thread has modified drain holes for the rear deck;

63395 Sunderland 3.9.67 by George Woods, on Flickr

 

Looking at the valance width, the tank currently fitted to 63396 seems to modelled on the narrower but taller tank so I assume it has ratained the non self trimming configuration.

63395 by nxea321446, on Flickr

 

It ran off Sunderland shed for a while with a wide bodied self trimming tender as this pic shows.

63395-ST-Tender.jpg

 

I've read that when the infant NELPG originally  got their hands on 63395 they also managed to "acquire" a tender filled full of spares. It was never made clear whether this was the tender as fitted to the loco or completely separate tender?

 

P

Porcy,

 

Like you, I don't know whether the current tender has a self trimming coal space, but I'll try to find out. I know the tank was rebuilt in NELPG ownership, but not when that was done.

 

Great pictures, by the way.

 

Regards,

 

Roy

[pete55]

Porcy,

 

Like you, I don't know whether the current tender has a self trimming coal space, but I'll try to find out. I know the tank was rebuilt in NELPG ownership, but not when that was done.

 

Great pictures, by the way.

 

Regards,

 

Roy

 

The Q6 tender does have a self trimming coal space according to a NELPG working member I mailed last night.

[Porcy Mane]

Ta Pete.

That should make it way easier for the fireman. An ex West Auckland driver said working with the non self trimming was a "right bas*8rd". Apparently it was a continuous job crawling through the hole to bring coal down into the slot then shovel it forward then crawl back over your pile to get back onto the footplate. A job best done when being held at signals when you could hop over the top.

With a lot of the turns being bonus work the routes were chosen to minimise signal stops. I'm surprised there aren't more photos about showing firemen in the tender.

[pete55]

Ta Pete.

That should make it way easier for the fireman. An ex West Auckland driver said working with the non self trimming was a "right bas*8rd". Apparently it was a continuous job crawling through the hole to bring coal down into the slot then shovel it forward then crawl back over your pile to get back onto the footplate. A job best done when being held at signals when you could hop over the top.

With a lot of the turns being bonus work the routes were chosen to minimise signal stops. I'm surprised there aren't more photos about showing firemen in the tender.

 

Martin did also say that the J27's tender is not self trimming and is a right pain!

[Porcy Mane]

He'll be the man that knows...

 

P

[Guest Q663368]

For those of you who have a copy of North Eastern Renaissance there are two particularly excellent pictures of 63395 contained within its pages.

 

The first one, by Peter J. Robinson is on page 3 and is from the Summer of 1967 when the loco was still in active service.

 

The second one, by Trevor Ermwel is of 63395 emerging from Thornaby roundhouse on the day of its first steaming in private ownership and appears on page 33.

 

To my eyes, both photographs appear to show patch plates in the tender side plate work. One on the right hand side and two on the left hand side.

[Market65]

Hi. I feel a little concerned that the Q6, excellent though the model is, might not be selling as well as hoped for. I know that there is the Adams radial and HST 40th anniversary sets that are up at the top of the best sellers. I was hoping for at least third place for the Q6. It would appear not.

If all this is right, then what hope is there for any more NER locomotives to be manufactured in the coming years?

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

[Porcy Mane]

That might be the case but I note that Hattons have sold out of the two early versions. Does the British Model Railway industry employ an equivalent of Millward Brown? It would be interesting to know what independent group compiles these best selling lists and how they do it?

 

P

[russ p]

Ta Pete.

That should make it way easier for the fireman. An ex West Auckland driver said working with the non self trimming was a "right bas*8rd". Apparently it was a continuous job crawling through the hole to bring coal down into the slot then shovel it forward then crawl back over your pile to get back onto the footplate. A job best done when being held at signals when you could hop over the top.

With a lot of the turns being bonus work the routes were chosen to minimise signal stops. I'm surprised there aren't more photos about showing firemen in the tender.

Who was the West Auckland driver Porcy?

[Porcy Mane]

Can't remember his name. It was about 15 years ago. I used to see him in the baths at Bishop. Last time I saw him he was on a footplate doing volunteer work at Locomotion.  After Tindale closed he signed on at Shildon Yard as an outstation of Thornaby then ended up full time at Thornaby once the Shildon signing on point closed.

 

I know there is a man on this forum has the signing on records of fireman that worked out of Tindale till closure.

 

P

 

Edit. FOrgot to say. I've had many a conversation with Gordon Reed about his time at Tindale.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[russ p]

I probably would have known him. It may have been Harry Clark he's always been interested in the job. He's getting on a bit now but I received a Christmas card from him last year

[Porcy Mane]

Name doesn't ring a bell. I may be at Shildon sometime this coming week. I'll ask.

[The Black Hat]

Could have been Harry Clarke as hes a guy I have seen in the baths too at Bishop and spoken to him about engines and stuff, although it might have been a friend of his Chris Cubitt, who you saw at Shildon at an event. Harry told me a fair bit about things that have happened. 

 

Had a chat with the guys at Shildon this weekend about the Q6 tender. Thoughts are that its off a C7 Atlantic, the 3945(?) size, non-self trimming type and was rebuilt in the 70s when it was restored at Thornaby/ICI. There is no plate on it to confirm this. 

[russ p]

Harry is an absolute mine of information, he remembers firing E4s on the stainmoor line.

I used to love secondmaning him as we always had a good chat. He was also one of the few drivers to drive Mallard in the 80s

[ArthurK]

Could have been Harry Clarke as hes a guy I have seen in the baths too at Bishop and spoken to him about engines and stuff, although it might have been a friend of his Chris Cubitt, who you saw at Shildon at an event. Harry told me a fair bit about things that have happened. 

 

Had a chat with the guys at Shildon this weekend about the Q6 tender. Thoughts are that its off a C7 Atlantic, the 3945(?) size, non-self trimming type and was rebuilt in the 70s when it was restored at Thornaby/ICI. There is no plate on it to confirm this. 

 

I was under the impression that the tender on 63395 came from a Q5 (rumour has it 771). I certainly did not come from a C7. The latter were never fitted with 3940 gallon tenders. In am sure that when I saw 63395 in Tyne Dock shed (awaiting preservation) the tender was precisely the same as I believe it to have today (that is 3940 gallon). The J72 ahead of it is the less fortunate Departmental No. 58 (69005).

 

ArthurK

 

[Porcy Mane]

Agreed Aurthur, but the tank has certainly been rebuilt/replaced(?) since NELPG took it on charge.

I don't think records of Q6 tender swaps could have been kept up to date towards the official end of steam. What I can say with some certainty is that an single unidentified C7 tender was swapped by West Hartlepool Shed and used by at least three of their Q6 as steam approached it's final days. The exchanges happened as Q6 were withdrawn and the tender looked outwardly to be in far worse condition than examples it replaced.

I've always made the assumption (knowing that to be dangerous) that the exchanges took place because the crews found the self leveling bunker of the Ex T2, then C7, then back to Q6 tender, to be far more convenient.

 

P

[ArthurK]

Agreed Aurthur, but the tank has certainly been rebuilt/replaced(?) since NELPG took it on charge.

I don't think records of Q6 tender swaps could have been kept up to date towards the official end of steam. What I can say with some certainty is that an single unidentified C7 tender was swapped by West Hartlepool Shed and used by at least three of their Q6 as steam approached it's final days. The exchanges happened as Q6 were withdrawn and the tender looked outwardly to be in far worse condition than examples it replaced.

I've always made the assumption (knowing that to be dangerous) that the exchanges took place because the crews found the self leveling bunker of the Ex T2, then C7, then back to Q6 tender, to be far more convenient.

 

P

One definite example of  Q6s sporting Atlantic tenders at the end of their days is 63344 at Tyne Dock on the scrap road, coupling rods removed. The give-away is the six inch footplate angle on its tender. Not all C7 tenders had the angle changed when passed on the Q6s although most that were switched in pre-war days did. No doubt when the C7s were scrapped useful tenders were retained for use on Q6s. At the end of days remaining Q6s had a motley of tenders from Q7s and B16s as well as from C7s. I doubt if many records were kept of these changes in the last days.

 

ArthurK

 

[Guest Q663368]

A number of years ago following the purchase of "Railways Around Whitby, Vol One" revised edition I sold my original copy with the orange cover. This was a mistake as the Orange covered version contains two Davenport photographs of Q6's on the Saltburn to Brotton Extension. The photo of the Q6 on the viaduct appears in both copies. However, the other one taken on the outskirts of Brotton where Lumpsy Signal Box was is not in the revised addition.

 

Could someone be so kind as to tell me the number of this Q6 and if stated, the date of the photograph which was mid 50's to early 60's if I recall. Also, does it have a 4125 gallon tender with the curved coal rails at both ends.

 

Many thanks in anticipation.