Oxford Diecast/Golden Valley - YE Janus 0-6-0DE

[SDJR7F88]

Just got mine out on the track, lovely looking model, sadly a very poor runner.

I've had it running around for over an hour, at least 30mins each way, and it doesn't seem to improve. On the straights it jolts around, has to be at a bit of speed or it stops. On corners it seems to run smoother, until you slow it down to a realistic speed or change direction and it stops. Will post a short video a bit later

[pauliebanger]

Just got mine out on the track, lovely looking model, sadly a very poor runner.

I've had it running around for over an hour, at least 30mins each way, and it doesn't seem to improve. On the straights it jolts around, has to be at a bit of speed or it stops. On corners it seems to run smoother, until you slow it down to a realistic speed or change direction and it stops. Will post a short video a bit later

 

I've seen three examples running on DC when visiting Digtrains. All ran very well straight out of the box in both directions.

 

Under the skin it's a pretty simple model so should not present too many problems in fettling a poor runner unless it is physically damaged or parts are missing*.

 

* The review models on here and in Hornby Magazine, and the instruction sheet which came with my model all show a brass flywheel. This is not fitted to my model, though the shaft is still present. This is the worst of all worlds since it no longer has the benefits of a flywheel, but the space which could be used for a stay alive capacitor, for example, is now bisected and virtually useless.

 

I would be interested in knowing if the flywheel has been omitted from anyone else's models. (I may just be unlucky!).

 

I also found that the gearing was very much like a toy train; I didn't actually check the top speed but it is at least double that possible with the real thing.

 

I put mine to DCC without testing on DC. After setting up the decoder to suit the motor, the model runs perfectly in one direction but there is a very slight regular hestitancy in the other. This is some sort of mechanical problem as it appears at the same point in the wheel rotation. This may resolve itself after running-in.

 

The decoder not only controls the motor superbly, but it's simple to curb the top speed to something more realistic and the jack rabbit acceleration can be restrained with some programmed inertia. I've included a Shunting Mode option (as in all my projects) which at the press of an F key the speed range is halved whilst inertia (acceleration) and momentum (deceleration) settings are reduced to zero to allow precise control when shunting.

 

Overall a good model of an interesting prototype which can be made to run perfectly and sound terrific.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[UKxGREENY]

Received my long a waited loco ncb blue via antics to day ran at first but runs the wrong way motor must be weird incorrectly and now has stopped running all together also very disappointed with what seems to be plastic hand rails very flimsy oh well will probably have to be sent back very pissed here

[SDJR7F88]

Here's a little video of the issue I'm having. This was filmed after about hour and half of running in, with no improvement. As you can see it seem to run fine once up to speed, but don't think I can shunt wagons at a scale speed of 40mph though... Plus needs a nudge really every time to get started. Any ideas on what could be wrong, nothings catching, pick-ups seem to all be touching the wheels and clear, plus is clean and track runs fine (had the Deans Goods out on it on day before). 

I've E-mailed the shop and they are willing for me to returning it, so might do that rather than void the warrenty

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrmDehIZM9s

Edited July 17, 2017 by SDJR7F88

[Ruston]

Received my long a waited loco ncb blue via antics to day ran at first but runs the wrong way motor must be weird incorrectly and now has stopped running all together also very disappointed with what seems to be plastic hand rails very flimsy oh well will probably have to be sent back very pissed here

I wired my layouts according to the direction of travel indicated on the controller when using my Hornby Pecketts and all subesequent kit-built locos have followed this but the Janus runs the opposite way, which is quite annoying.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Ref to this...

 

The NCB YEC Janus as supplied represents the loco as preserved and named in preservation.

 

However, the NCB took 10 of these locos according to the GV info sheet.

 

Is there a list of the known NCB Janus engine numbers?

 

Has anyone photos of the other NCB Janus locos?

 

Thanks

[Gareth 73]

SDJR7F88

In ref to your running probs it looks almost like the wheels arnt quarted correctly as it stops in the same place of revoloution. A bit more power over comes the binding hence running at higher power settings. Just my thoughts tho

[SDJR7F88]

Received my long a waited loco ncb blue via antics to day ran at first but runs the wrong way motor must be weird incorrectly and now has stopped running all together also very disappointed with what seems to be plastic hand rails very flimsy oh well will probably have to be sent back very pissed here

 

I wired my layouts according to the direction of travel indicated on the controller when using my Hornby Pecketts and all subesequent kit-built locos have followed this but the Janus runs the opposite way, which is quite annoying.

Very interesting issue, though I didn't have this with mine...

 

Sadly this seems to be starting to build up a picture of bad Quality Control again... So far we have; Not able to run slow, bad running in general, back to front wiring, and possibly a missing flywheel! It really is a great shame for what is a very, very pretty looking model 

Edited July 17, 2017 by SDJR7F88

[Andy Y]

 

* The review models on here and in Hornby Magazine, and the instruction sheet which came with my model all show a brass flywheel. This is not fitted to my model, though the shaft is still present. This is the worst of all worlds since it no longer has the benefits of a flywheel, but the space which could be used for a stay alive capacitor, for example, is now bisected and virtually useless.

 

I would be interested in knowing if the flywheel has been omitted from anyone else's models. (I may just be unlucky!).

 

 

Blimey; that's a substantial variation to the spec Paul. I'd be concerned if someone read one of the reviews and thought we just made stuff up! I have seen mention elsewhere that it had two flywheels; I just assumed that someone had mistaken the gold-coloured shaft socket for a flywheel but now I'm not so sure; maybe they had two, I had one and you got none! Bizarre.

 

Would you happen to have a pic of the inside of yours Paul?

 

[Dagworth]

Blimey; that's a substantial variation to the spec Paul. I'd be concerned if someone read one of the reviews and thought we just made stuff up! I have seen mention elsewhere that it had two flywheels; I just assumed that someone had mistaken the gold-coloured shaft socket for a flywheel but now I'm not so sure; maybe they had two, I had one and you got none! Bizarre.

 

Would you happen to have a pic of the inside of yours Paul?

 

11a.jpg

That's exactly what the inside of mine looks like

 

Andi

[No Decorum]

sawyermodels at post 230 says, “...twin flywheel drive according to the picture in the instructions etc.”

 

Not that I can find a reference now but I seem to remember twin flywheels mentioned earlier. The illustration mentioned above might indicate that I was not hallucinating. Perhaps Oxford found that there wasn’t room in the cab area for the second.

 

These reports are a great pity. Oxford has been producing nice runners, whatever else may be said about them.

[pauliebanger]

Blimey; that's a substantial variation to the spec Paul. I'd be concerned if someone read one of the reviews and thought we just made stuff up! I have seen mention elsewhere that it had two flywheels; I just assumed that someone had mistaken the gold-coloured shaft socket for a flywheel but now I'm not so sure; maybe they had two, I had one and you got none! Bizarre.

 

Would you happen to have a pic of the inside of yours Paul?

 

11a.jpg

 

Andy,

 

Not such a big change really, just a missing flywheel.

 

I also assumed the 'two flywheels' refers to the one actual flywheel, the prominent one at the front of your picture, and the 'heavy' coupler for the cardan shaft at the other end of the motor.

 

I do not have, nor do any of the others at Digitrains (I've checked with them today) the large flywheel shown at the front of your picture. The shaft to mount a flywheel is present, but no heavy brass flywheel.

 

I know the review model sent to Hornby Magazine had the flywheel as I've seen it, hence my surprise when I opened mine to fit a decoder.

 

The same thing happened with the Hornby Peckett, flywheel in the original design but missing from the production version, so I wondered if I am just unlucky or if this lack of flywheel is widespread.

 

Dagworth has posted that his is like your photo, so if his is a production model, maybe there are some 'mistakes' which have slipped through.

 

Do you know if the motor is coreless or not?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[stovepipe]

Hi all,

 

Ref to this...

 

The NCB YEC Janus as supplied represents the loco as preserved and named in preservation.

 

However, the NCB took 10 of these locos according to the GV info sheet.

 

Is there a list of the known NCB Janus engine numbers?

 

Has anyone photos of the other NCB Janus locos?

 

Thanks

 

Littleton Colliery took two from new numbered no. 6 and no. 7 with the former being the now named preserved example. There are some photos here

 

https://flic.kr/p/9GhJdv

NCB diesel shunter at Littleton Colliery sept 1974 by david edwards, on Flickr

Littleton Colliery by Derek Pattenson, on Flickr

Littleton Colliery exchange sidings (pjs,0398) by Geoff Dowling, on Flickr

 

NCB Walkden had a couple from new too. According to Tony Vernon's YEC book, only 6 Janus were bought by NCB from new, the others found their way later on.

[37081LochLong]

Hmm! Mine has a flywheel... On the opposite end to the one shown above

[Andy Y]

Andy,

 

Do you know if the motor is coreless or not?

 

 

It's a 5 pole.

[No Decorum]

Hmm! Mine has a flywheel... On the opposite end to the one shown above

Bewildering!

[Tim Hall]

Now somewhat nervous about the arrival of mine, probably tomorrow...

[pauliebanger]

sawyermodels at post 230 says, “...twin flywheel drive according to the picture in the instructions etc.”

 

Not that I can find a reference now but I seem to remember twin flywheels mentioned earlier. The illustration mentioned above might indicate that I was not hallucinating. Perhaps Oxford found that there wasn’t room in the cab area for the second.

 

These reports are a great pity. Oxford has been producing nice runners, whatever else may be said about them.

 

I've opened it up again. There are more differences from the picture posted by Andy Y than I originally thought.

 

The Operation and Maintenance leaflet has a diagram showing two flywheels, one at either end of the motor.

 

Andy's photo, and of the one sent to Hornby Magazine has one replaced by a much reduced metal turning  which serves to drive the cardan shaft. The large one is still present at the other end.

 

Mine has no large flywheel at the free end, but the cardan shaft is now fits into a flywheel sized coupling.

 

The clip to hold the wiring clear at the top of the motor is at the other end. Wait a minute, so is the motor wiring.

 

Ahah, it looks like the motor has been fitted the other way around (which might explain 'reverse running' some have reported) and a combined cardan shaft 'cup' and flywheel used instead of the arrangements in the review examples and the one Dagworth has.

 

By the way, Andy, did you notice that the PCB and hence the decoder has been put in the end of the model which has restricted internal height and width due to the indent?

 

No worries, the chassis will fit inside the body either way round and there's more clearance at the other end.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

I have a blue one to backdate for someone.

 

It has the chassis type shown in Andy's posting.

 

Thanks

[pauliebanger]

Andy,

 

Just noticed the photo in the post from John. That's exactly similar to mine.

 

Note the wiring clip designed to stop the motor wires from rubbing against the flywheel is now at the non-flywheel end so is completely functionless, whereas the motor wires are now free to drag against the flywheel/cardan shaft coupling.

 

Bizarre.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Scottish Modeller]

 

Littleton Colliery took two from new numbered no. 6 and no. 7 with the former being the now named preserved example. There are some photos here

 

https://flic.kr/p/9GhJdv

NCB diesel shunter at Littleton Colliery sept 1974 by david edwards, on Flickr

Littleton Colliery by Derek Pattenson, on Flickr

Littleton Colliery exchange sidings (pjs,0398) by Geoff Dowling, on Flickr

 

NCB Walkden had a couple from new too. According to Tony Vernon's YEC book, only 6 Janus were bought by NCB from new, the others found their way later on.

Hi Stovepipe,

 

Thanks for the information and photos - much appreciated.

 

As I said in my previous post, I need to backdate one to it's proper NCB condition.

 

Does the book refer to have a list showing the allocations for the locos?

 

If so - it would be a great help if you can let us know?

 

Thanks

[pauliebanger]

It's a 5 pole.

 

Yes, I've seen that quoted in several places (but not on the leaflet included wit the model), but what anyone using this model on DCC or modulated DC needs to know is whether it is coreless or not.

 

Surely the manufacturers should know why this information is important to end users?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Hippo]

Ok just stripped mine down and it has the one centre flywheel on the coupling. 

The same as 37081LochLong.

 

Hmmm

[Swindon 123]

Having picked up a couple of these models on Friday, I set about EM'ing one of them that afternoon. Below are some photos of the operation.

First I took the body off, via the 4 screws on the corners behind the buffer beams. To get at the wheels I took off the bottom keeper plate, which is held on by 4 small screws. Be careful not to loose them. The keeper plate will drop down from the bottom sufficient to drop the wheels out of the chassis, but the wires to the motor from the pick-ups, which are on the keeper plate stop you taking the wheels out together. You can just make them out in the photo below.

 

As I intended to turn the wheels down, they are quite a good profile, but not up to the standards I have set, I took the coupling rods off before taking the wheels out. The coupling rods are held onto the crankpins by small screws, which also would be very easy to loose. So if you go along my road, keep them safe. With the coupling rods off I removed each set of wheels one at a time to turn then down to my preferred standard. I was able to do this without taking them off the axles, so preserving the quartering. In the photo below the wheels turned down and set to EM are the bottom pair.

 

When it came to opening out the wheels on the axle I wasn't sure at first how to do it, as the axle didn't show  at the end, the wheel presenting a solid face. As it seemed to be common among manufacturers to put a this plastic face on their wheels I decided to see if this was so with these wheels and see if I could apply a little force and tap the axles out through the plastic. This proved to be the case and with some careful application of a hammer to a specially modified punch, I found it possible to open out the wheels on the axles. Careful use of a vernier made sure that the wheels at each end of the axle were moved the same distance, there not being much meat on the back of the wheels to keep on the axle, especially the middle pair which didn't have a plastic boss on the back, like the outside wheels. The photo below shows the punched through plastic face on the wheels, which I later disguised with black Plasticine.

 

A view of the wheels back in the chassis. Note the lack of boss on the back of the wheels on the middle axle. The 2 rod like protrusions on the keeper plate are part of the brake-gear, but molded onto the keeper plate and not attached to the brakes themselves.

 

When it came to putting the wheels back into the chassis, the pick-ups became a bit of a problem and with little space under the keeper plate to work with, not a problem when I took the wheels out, I decided that I needed more room to work with so unsoldered the wires from the pick-ups to the motor at the circuit board. This allowed the keeper plate to drop down a little more and give me more room the work with. I note a few people have said their model goes the opposite way to their others. Mine is OK, and runs the same way as all my other models. In the photo below the red arrow denotes the unsoldered wire, which I didn't push all the way though the chassis block.

 

All this messing about with the chassis dislodged some parts of the brake gear, which is plastic and locates into holes in the chassis. Parts of it were glued, other parts not. In the end I removed it all as it was getting in the way. More of that later. With the wheels back in the chassis, and the coupling rods refitted. Note: make a note of which end the knuckle joint is at when removing the coupling rods. They can easily be put on the wrong way as they are fitted with roller bearings and have no oil pots to orientate them on the wheels. My collection of photos of the prototype suggest the knuckle joint in the coupling rods is at the same end as the air filters on the bonnet top, which are only at one end of the loco. (No doubt someone will be able to find a photo that doesn't follow that rule). After a test run on the rolling road, the loco was taken round to be given a test run on Hornsey Broadway, on which it performed well, and able to handle 5 coaches on Hornsey Broadway's gradients. Below it is on test with a more realistic train.

 

Whilst working on the chassis, the cabside name and number were removed using Modelstrip, although I left the works plate alone as they have done a nice job of it. I have subsequent to the Hornsey Broadway test run made a couple of tweaks to the loco. I filed the crankpins down a little, the coupling rods being quite thin, and they flailed about on the crankpins when running. This makes them look better. The brake-gear has been refitted, but with some plasticard pads to move them off the chassis a bit and clear the opened out wheels. In respect of the wheelsets being wider, I also had to take a drill and burr to the back of the air receivers on the middle underside of the running plate, as they fouled the re gauged wheels. I suspect this may be necessary even with scale wheels if anyone ever produces a set. As I have been writing this diatribe, the revised chassis has been merrily running in some more on my rolling road. Mine runs very smoothly and sweetly, so I count myself luckey when hearing some of the tails from other modellers.

 

Paul J.

[Ian Hargrave]

Yes, I've seen that quoted in several places (but not on the leaflet included wit the model), but what anyone using this model on DCC or modulated DC needs to know is whether it is coreless or not.

 

Surely the manufacturers should know why this information is important to end users?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Yes, I've seen that quoted in several places (but not on the leaflet included wit the model), but what anyone using this model on DCC or modulated DC needs to know is whether it is coreless or not.

 

 

 

Surely the manufacturers should know why this information is important to end users?

 

Why not take Andy's word for it ? It's a 5 pole conventional can motor with flywheel. Oxford have no form with coreless motors....why on earth should they be obliged to state it ? If in doubt you could always contact them stating your concerns. A direct question often works.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul