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Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

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6 hours ago, woodenhead said:

It would take a brave politician to cancel it now.

 

Of course though you can cancel other projects......

 

I wonder if HS2 will be the sacrificial cow to the cost overrun plus the funding for Cross Rail 2 that BoJo was a proposer of.

 

No point building a line beyond Watford, they don't vote for us, neither do those liberals in the southwest.

That's why BR started the first West Coast Electrification scheme at Manchester and Liverpool. No politician would stop it reaching London, although it had severe budget cuts between Stafford and Bletchley mid-project c1962. Strangely these cuts had little effect on the 50 miles north of Euston.

In 60 years they still haven't completed the original scope in the West Midlands.

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20 hours ago, woodenhead said:

It would take a brave politician to cancel it now.

 

Of course though you can cancel other projects......

 

I wonder if HS2 will be the sacrificial cow to the cost overrun plus the funding for Cross Rail 2 that BoJo was a proposer of.

 

No point building a line beyond Watford, they don't vote for us, neither do those liberals in the southwest.

 

I assume you're not being serious?  The state of completion of Crossrail and HS2 are hardly comparable. 

 

On Crossrail the civil engineering, track, signalling and power systems have been installed and the trains delivered.  New station fit out, train/signalling testing and some station rebuilds remain outstanding.  On Crossrail we're somewhere along the classic 80/20 project tail.  By comparison HS2 has barely started.  Chalk and Cheese.

 

I know it is popular to make the HS2 review into a "awww look at London getting all the money again, what about the north blah blah blah" but HS2 has been and remains its own worst enemy and has brought this on itself.  Its PR has been truly appalling and its obsession with very high speed with no apparent regard for the significant incremental cost of construction and operation that results relative to say 300/320 kph is a massive own goal born out of some sort of engineering vanity rather than practical and common sense analysis of the true need.  A review of the projected and rapidly escalating costs was inevitable and imo if it goes ahead it will be despite the efforts of those involved rather than because of them.

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36 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

On Crossrail the civil engineering, track, signalling and power systems have been installed and the trains delivered.  New station fit out, train/signalling testing and some station rebuilds remain outstanding.  On Crossrail we're somewhere along the classic 80/20 project tail.  By comparison HS2 has barely started.  Chalk and Cheese.

 

 

Given that the stations in Central London have platform screens, I find myself wondering why the train service could not run, stopping only at the stations such as Farringdon that have been completed. Farringdon alone, with its connection to Thameslink, H&C and Met would seem to be worth the effort.

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22 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Given that the stations in Central London have platform screens, I find myself wondering why the train service could not run, stopping only at the stations such as Farringdon that have been completed. Farringdon alone, with its connection to Thameslink, H&C and Met would seem to be worth the effort.

 

Signalling testing is still ongoing and so no kind of public service is going to be contemplated until that has been satisfactorily completed.  It is possible I suppose that there may be some sort of soft interim service launch earlier than whatever the final official opening date turns out to be but that should not be entertained if it risks getting in the way of finishing the thing properly.  For example one of the reasons the signal testing was delayed was because the contractors needed access to the track at some stations.  Better to get it all finished imo rather than risk further delays through trying to open it early just for the sake of it.

 

If it is a success when it finally opens then everyone will forget it was late and over budget.  This happened with the Channel Tunnel and the JLE amongst others.

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7 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

Signalling testing is still ongoing and so no kind of public service is going to be contemplated until that has been satisfactorily completed.  It is possible I suppose that there may be some sort of soft interim service launch earlier than whatever the final official opening date turns out to be but that should not be entertained if it risks getting in the way of finishing the thing properly.  For example one of the reasons the signal testing was delayed was because the contractors needed access to the track at some stations.  Better to get it all finished imo rather than risk further delays through trying to open it early just for the sake of it.

 

If it is a success when it finally opens then everyone will forget it was late and over budget.  This happened with the Channel Tunnel and the JLE amongst others.

If you look at this link - which I posted yesterday - you will see that the Siemens signalling/control software for the central section is still undergoing development and tuning with an updated version (PD+11) due to appear in the (unstated but presumably near)  future to enable full testing of the control system.

 

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/construction/our-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line/

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3 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

I assume you're not being serious?  The state of completion of Crossrail and HS2 are hardly comparable. 

 

Of course I wasn't being serious when it comes to Crossrail :D.  Unless of course the whole thing is a cover for a new underground city of the rich for after the apocalypse or Robbie Williams' latest attempt at extending his cellar.

 

But when it comes to Crossrail 2 it wouldn't surprise me if they rob HS2 to help fund it though.

 

The current HS2 review is probably a political stunt to assuage all those Tory voters in the Chilterns who never wanted it and we have an election coming up.  Has no impact in the North where most people don't vote Tory so no votes lost threatening a cancellation but winning votes in the south.

 

When I was in London recently works on HS2 was still in full swing so apart from some trees not being chopped down the demolition work continues unabated as will the project on the other side of the elections.

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On 08/11/2019 at 11:48, Zomboid said:

Will it ever open?

 

Yes, but by then we will probably be using Stardates instead of the current AD system......

 

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It seems we're past 'AD' & 'BC' already, with increasing use of 'CE' & 'BCE' 

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1 hour ago, keefer said:

It seems we're past 'AD' & 'BC' already, with increasing use of 'CE' & 'BCE' 

The change being intended to avoid offence to non-Christians.  "Political" correctness gets everywhere.  They have a point.  If one is, for example, Muslim or Jewish then strictly speaking this is not the year 2019AD.  And the most learned of Biblical scholars would probably agree that with changes over the years that The Year of Our Lord is not an absolute and that he may have in fact been born in AD6 or even 13BC :O  

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On 10/11/2019 at 14:49, Gwiwer said:

The change being intended to avoid offence to non-Christians.  "Political" correctness gets everywhere.  They have a point.  If one is, for example, Muslim or Jewish then strictly speaking this is not the year 2019AD.  And the most learned of Biblical scholars would probably agree that with changes over the years that The Year of Our Lord is not an absolute and that he may have in fact been born in AD6 or even 13BC :O  

There are buildings in East London that have Jewish dates on their foundation stones or on inscriptions above the door.

I also know a couple of people who use the Jewish calendar when sending emails.

Then there is the Scottish system, not widely used, but I should point out that it starts at an earlier date than all of the others.:D

I tend to favour the Japanese system where you start again when you get a new Emperor.

Bernard 

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Crossrail is far more important project and needs to be finished safely  if the extra money is hard to find cancel HS2 as it is grossly overbudget.Also the attitude towards anyone in their way is deplorable,a friend of mine who has had his property acquired two years ago is still waiting for the money . 

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On 09/11/2019 at 13:11, woodenhead said:

The current HS2 review is probably a political stunt to assuage all those Tory voters in the Chilterns who never wanted it and we have an election coming up.  Has no impact in the North where most people don't vote Tory so no votes lost threatening a cancellation but winning votes in the south.

 

 

16 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

Crossrail is far more important project and needs to be finished safely  if the extra money is hard to find cancel HS2 as it is grossly overbudget.Also the attitude towards anyone in their way is deplorable,a friend of mine who has had his property acquired two years ago is still waiting for the money . 

I rest my case m'lord :D

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Digging a bit deeper (!) into the Crossrail release last Friday 8 November, it now seems only Abbey Wood services will run into the central section initially:

 

Quote

When the central section of the Elizabeth line opens the railway will operate as follows:

  • Paddington (Elizabeth line station) to Abbey Wood via central London
  • Liverpool Street (main line station) to Shenfield
  • Paddington (main line station) to Heathrow and Reading

 

Hardly the much-heralded easy cross-London transit previously advertised.  And which will leave both LST and PAD waiting for platform optimisation works a while longer.  Sigh...

 

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11 hours ago, Platform 1 said:

Digging a bit deeper (!) into the Crossrail release last Friday 8 November, it now seems only Abbey Wood services will run into the central section initially:

 

Hardly the much-heralded easy cross-London transit previously advertised.  And which will leave both LST and PAD waiting for platform optimisation works a while longer.  Sigh...

 

 

That was always the plan before the delays came into effect and the timetable slipping.

Just as with the original plans, services will be implemented in stages to build up experience and resilience, until the final stage where the full through service, from Abbey Wood and Shenfield to Heathrow and Reading, is introduced.

 

The only change to the original plan, has been the introduction of Paddington high level (mainline station) to Reading services, this December.

Services west of Paddington to Reading were originally planned to be the last stage of the whole project, being introduced as an extension to through trains from the east, calling at Paddington low level (Crossrail station).

 

Note: The final stage of Crossrail (Phase 5) , being the full Crossrail service, was originally due to be introduced in December 2019 (next month)....not last year, as the main stream media always reports.

 

 

 

.

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10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

That was always the plan before the delays came into effect and the timetable slipping.

Just as with the original plans, services will be implemented in stages to build up experience and resilience, until the final stage where the full through service, from Abbey Wood and Sheffield to Heathrow and Reading, is introduced.

 

The only change to the original plan, has been the introduction of Paddington high level (mainline station) to Reading services, this December.

Services west of Paddington to Reading were originally planned to be the last stage of the whole project, being introduced as an extension to through trains from the east, calling at Paddington low level (Crossrail station).

 

Note: The final stage of Crossrail (Phase 5) , being the full Crossrail service, was originally due to be introduced in December 2019 (next month)....not last year, as the main stream media always reports.

 

 

 

.

 

Wow, will oyster card etc. be available to Sheffield?

 

:jester:

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On 08/11/2019 at 17:13, lmsforever said:

Could the trains be used elsewhere until this line actually opened at least then revenue would be earned plus some rolling stock shortages will be helped.I wait for further delays on this project maybe it is overengineered?

Given the time taken to train drivers and maintenance staff on new stock, and the question of getting type approval for new stock on a different route, I'd say that was unlikely. Something like that has to be planned in at the start. In any case, once approval has been given to start full-blown testing and commissioning, they'll need every train and driver at very short notice.

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16 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

That was always the plan before the delays came into effect

 

Thanks Ron, I think I've lost the plot a bit lately - but have no connection with the media!! ;)

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On 08/11/2019 at 17:13, lmsforever said:

Could the trains be used elsewhere until this line actually opened at least then revenue would be earned plus some rolling stock shortages will be helped.I wait for further delays on this project maybe it is overengineered?

 

I gather the vast majority of the fleet will be needed when full dynamic testing through the core gets underway alongside Tfl Rail services to Reading, Shenfield and Heathrow.

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On 09/11/2019 at 13:11, woodenhead said:

Has no impact in the North where most people don't vote Tory

 

Not true I’m afraid despite the comedy value.

 

Places like rural North Yorkshire are just as solidly Conservative voting as Surrey!

 

Basically, in ‘the north’ Labour are strong in ex manufacturing / mining / docks areas - but move out into rural areas where farming is the main way of life and the picture is very different.

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On 11/11/2019 at 18:36, woodenhead said:

 

You would be blown out of the water. Crossrail funding has absolutely sweet FA to do with HS2 funding. Apart from the very difficult fact that the "independent" report into HS2 has dramatically recommended completion of the whole scheme (albeit Lord Elpus, or Baron Gueterbock of Hillingdon, supposedly riding shotgun on the enquiry, has demurred....not sure anyone will take any notice, as he doesn't come from the Norf either - Cornwall I believe).

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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Not true I’m afraid despite the comedy value.

 

Places like rural North Yorkshire are just as solidly Conservative voting as Surrey!

 

Basically, in ‘the north’ Labour are strong in ex manufacturing / mining / docks areas - but move out into rural areas where farming is the main way of life and the picture is very different.

 

Indeed the 2001 General Election was unique in that  the defending Prime Minister (Tony Blair, Sedgefield), and the Leader of the Opposition (William Hague, Richmond (Yorks)) had adjacent constituencies!

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