Castle Aching

[Donw]

"If you read Denny's book about the Buckingham Branches, it becomes clear that he had little bits of layout secreted in every nook at the first tiny flat that he and his wife shared. "

A very inspiring book. But I think his wife might have noticed when he put the boards up to run trains!

Jonathan

 

At the time Peter built that layout the radio rather than the TV was the common form of entertainment. Even those who had acquired this new fangled device tended to keep it in the parlour and switch it on for specific things. It was not normal to leave it on as background to family life. When he first went to Cornwall he commented that he had progressed well with the railway as TV was late getting to Cornwall. A layout round the room would still allow his wife to sit, read or sew whilst listening to the radio but when TV arrived it would block the line of view.

Don

[Edwardian]

My apologies if I appeared to be unfair to Peter Goss. I was merely repeating, without enough thought, the comment of another visitor who was at the show with me. That was his reaction on seeing the layout and the stand. I shall amend my post to show that I meant no ill will. And i don't think there were military figures on his sales stand.

Jonathan

 

Certainly his website only features his railway figures for sale.

 

I had wondered where he obtained the Civil War figures.  The nearest wargame scale to 1/76 is probably "20mm",though 1/72nd figures might pass muster.

 

These are not scales traditionally associated with the horse/pike/shot era, so Mr Goss would have more choice with 25-28mm figures.

 

Even traditional 25mm figures would be too big.  I sometimes see people claiming that Trad. 25mm is akin to 1/72nd, but I consider the former was always somewhat larger.  Most modern figs are "28mm".

 

So, I wondered, did Pete Goss force perspective, using 28mm scale figures at the front of the board as re-enactors, with the smaller 1/76 civilians and railway towards ther rear?

 

If he has found a quality range of 20mm or 1/72nd Civil War figures, I'dlike to know about thwm!

 

Revell did some 30 Years War 1/72nd plastics, but the sets don't lend themselves to building up the infantry formations needed for wargames units or 20th century re-enactors!

 

 

According to Howard Giles's Brief History of Re-enactment The Duke of Buckingham staged naval battles from the Napoleonic War on the large lake on his estate in 1821, and a reenactment of the Battle of Waterloo was put on for a public viewing at Astley's Amphitheatre in 1824. and In 1895, members of the Gloucestershire Engineer Volunteers reenacted their famous stand at Rorke's Drift, 18 years earlier. Also in (no date here) 25 British soldiers beat back the attack of 75 Zulus at the Grand Military Fete at the Cheltenham Winter Gardens.

 

Wargamers are little devils for compression and scaling mismatch, but railway modellers are not innocent on this score. Selective Compression is almost universal when it comes to track layout (the very few fully to scale layouts look quite empty), and most main line traffic is drastically truncated. How many 0-8-0s are seen pulling 80 or 90 wagons? How many A4s with a dozen or more carriages.

 

Railways do occasionally feature in wargames, most recently I was looking at rules for incorporating railways in WW2 skirmish level games using the excellent Chain of Command rules from The Too Fat Lardies. Unfortunately as a result of their quirky sense of humour too much exploration of their (excellent wargame) output is liable to leave me exposed to a raid by the moderators. Given wargamers total inability to understand the difference between scale and measurement the actual railways suffer massive distortion, and are often little more than caricatures.

 

Fascinating, thank you.  The Battle of Trafalgar on CA's village pond is the nearest I'm likely to get, though! 

 

 

Bloomin' marvellous!

 

What is the material that he is using for structures? It looks like a very dense foam, carved, but I struggle to think of a foam that is dense enough to carry the level of detail, and not be unfeasibly fragile.

 

This all brings up the possibility of dual-function landscapes ......... The Battle of the Vale, staged at Pendon, perhaps.

 

I have some blue Styrofoam sheets.  I did start on a couple of Normandy houses for my son.  It melts if you use an aerosol, but takes acrylic paint easily enough.  The best thing about it is that you can "scribe", or rather draw, relief mortar courses with a pencil or Biro.  It is great for random stone.

 

Remember all those articles about scribing stone in DAS or what not?  Say "goodbye" to that!

 

The reason I have not used it, and will not use it, on CA is simply because CA is an exercise in card modelling and I believe it could be fatal to the look of the thing to mix media in such a way.  

 

Now, turning to this wargamer, he does something different.  He does not build a structure using the foam as sheet material to form a shell.  No, he carves the whole structure from blocks of the stuff.  If he needs an interior, he carves it out.  Every structure is made from a single block of the stuff.  That, I suspect, takes some skill!  I have never seen anything like it, and have been mightily impressed!

[ChrisN]

How about these for the Civil War?  I am not sure of their availability or their cost, although I think I have seen them around.  Red Box has some 16th and 15th century Spanish and Italian infantry.  15th would be too early really but late 16th might be fine.

Edited February 22, 2017 by ChrisN

[corneliuslundie]

Here are some photos of World's End:

http://www.petegossrailwaymodelling.co.uk/p157385133

Four have the re-enactors.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

Well, those little plastic chaps that Chris points to look pretty accurate to me, in that they look like the reenactment group that I used to be part of, and we took a lot of care over getting the detail of our kit right. Some of the detail is a bit gross, though - it took me ages to work out that the artilleryman holding a long pokey thing is meant to be the gunner, touching-off his piece (always a useful phrase to raise a giggle from visitors), the long pokey thing being his match-holder ......... the head of which is way too bulky.

 

You'd need a lot of sets to make a pike or musket block, though!

 

K

 

PS: good as they were, Cromwell's horse soldiers did not fight at Waterloo, despite what the website says!

Edited February 22, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Caley Jim]

......... How many A4s with a dozen or more carriages.

Not an A4, admittedly, but how about this?  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65499-whats-on-your-2mm-work-bench/page-67#entry2623774 

 

There are other videos of Copenhagen Fields with A4's pulling prototype loads.

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

How about these for the Civil War?  I am not sure of their availability or their cost, although I think I have seen them around.  Red Box has some 16th and 15th century Spanish and Italian infantry.  15th would be too early really but late 16th might be fine.

 

Very nice.  The Revell 30 Years War figures can not doubt be mixed with them.

 

Redbox range from the execrable (Boxer Rebellion) to the splendid (the 3 British sets for the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion).   

 

 

At the time Peter built that layout the radio rather than the TV was the common form of entertainment. Even those who had acquired this new fangled device tended to keep it in the parlour and switch it on for specific things. It was not normal to leave it on as background to family life. When he first went to Cornwall he commented that he had progressed well with the railway as TV was late getting to Cornwall. A layout round the room would still allow his wife to sit, read or sew whilst listening to the radio but when TV arrived it would block the line of view.

Don

 

The dangers of TV.  We don't have one, but watch selectively online (we have always kept up a TV Licence - a worthwhile cause).

 

 

Here are some photos of World's End:

http://www.petegossrailwaymodelling.co.uk/p157385133

Four have the re-enactors.

Jonathan

 

Excellent, thanks.  When I have a moment, I will try to identify these figures: http://www.petegossrailwaymodelling.co.uk/p157385133/h30f8e140#h2e46e407

 

 

Well, those little plastic chaps that Chris points to look pretty accurate to me, in that they look like the reenactment group that I used to be part of, and we took a lot of care over getting the detail of our kit right. Some of the detail is a bit gross, though - it took me ages to work out that the artilleryman holding a long pokey thing is meant to be the gunner, touching-off his piece (always a useful phrase to raise a giggle from visitors), the long pokey thing being his match-holder ......... the head of which is way too bulky.

 

You'd need a lot of sets to make a pike or musket block, though!

 

K

 

PS: good as they were, Cromwell's horse soldiers did not fight at Waterloo, despite what the website says!

 

I agree.  Hard to get the various ranks needed for pikemen in sufficient numbers.  Also, I think you need something like a 2:1 ratio pike to musket.

 

Waterloo 1815 is a really stupid name for a miniatures company.  As in "Waterloo 1815 World War II Italian Cavalry", or "Waterloo 1815 Sioux" etc

 

They are an Italian outfit, which merely adds to the mystery, as the Italians did not participate in the Battle of Waterloo, with the exception of Fabrizio del Dongo, of course.

 

 

Not an A4, admittedly, but how about this?  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65499-whats-on-your-2mm-work-bench/page-67#entry2623774 

 

There are other videos of Copenhagen Fields with A4's pulling prototype loads.

 

Jim

 

Excellent video, though, due to my culpable ignorance of all matters LNER, I misread the post "Lord President went for a stroll on the MRC test tracks today", and thought to myself "Well, I know the Model Railway Club is an august and ancient body, but calling its chairman the Lord President is coming it a bit high for my liking".

 

Ahem.

[Northroader]

[Edwardian]

IMG_0908.JPG

 

Superb!

[TheQ]

We all have breaks in railway Modelling having another interest always helps..

I loved Rowlands castle, and Worlds End.

Rowlands Castle particularly because it's a WW2 layout although his is D-Day, and mine will be Dunkirk... his modelling skill provides a traget to aim for...

 

I hope to see Worlds end some time...

 

My only criticism of Worlds End from the photographs, is that due to Compression, my brothers house is missing from between the Castle / river / railway.

[drmditch]

At the time Peter built that layout the radio rather than the TV was the common form of entertainment. 

 

So you mean it isn't now?

Radio (although it is DAB so I haven't entirely neglected the 21st Century) in the Railway Room.

Television in the Sitting Room.

This is as it ought to be!

[corneliuslundie]

I don't know if the Directors of the railway company were in the market for second hand brake vans in 1888, but the London, Tilbury & Southend Railway was offering some for sale. The Barry Railway inspected them but did not buy any.

Jonathan

[phil_sutters]

How about these for the Civil War?  I am not sure of their availability or their cost, although I think I have seen them around.  Red Box has some 16th and 15th century Spanish and Italian infantry.  15th would be too early really but late 16th might be fine.

Those pikes look mighty hefty - too thick and a bit sort perhaps, although pikemen were prone to chopping bits of the end to make them more manageable..

Edited February 23, 2017 by phil_sutters

[webbcompound]

Those pikes look mighty hefty - too thick and a bit sort perhaps, although pikemen were prone to chopping bits of the end to make them more manageable..

Just replace them with wire, or you can get wire spears with heads filed on the end

[phil_sutters]

Certainly his website only features his railway figures for sale.

 

I had wondered where he obtained the Civil War figures.  The nearest wargame scale to 1/76 is probably "20mm",though 1/72nd figures might pass muster.

 

These look OK -  http://www.warrioronline.demon.co.uk/specialofferecw.htm - obviously you can't tell from the photos exactly what height they are. I can't immediately see individual figures or units but the 'deal'  looks a fairly good one. A couple of packs should make a presentable local re-enactment. Not every village has Midsomer Murders scale fetes! These were groups in our local parks in London.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Donw]

So you mean it isn't now?

Radio (although it is DAB so I haven't entirely neglected the 21st Century) in the Railway Room.

Television in the Sitting Room.

This is as it ought to be!

 

At the time Peter didn't have a separate railway room if fact it was a bed/sitting room so the railway had to fit in with other household activities. It wasn't until he was moved to a large Georgian Vicarage that he had a separate railway room.

We have not bothered with TV at various times in our lives which is considered by most to be unusual. The TV licence people find it difficult to accept.

Don 

[Edwardian]

These look OK -  http://www.warrioronline.demon.co.uk/specialofferecw.htm - obviously you can't tell from the photos exactly what height they are. I can't immediately see individual figures or units but the 'deal'  looks a fairly good one. A couple of packs should make a presentable local re-enactment. Not every village has Midsomer Murders scale fetes! These were groups in our local parks in London.

Fort Amherst at Peckham Rye ready at high porte c1999.jpg

Confederates advance ACW Dulwich 6 1999.jpg

 

Excellent pictures.

 

Here Edwardian ventures into territory no doubt best left to others, but:

 

Upper picture: A mixture of 71st Foot (Highland Light Infantry) and 79th Foot (Cameron Highlanders).  The sole chap in the Belgic Shako looks like a Guardsman, but, given everyone else depicts a Scottish Regiment, I'm going for the 1st Foot (Royal Scots) because they, too, had blue facings and bastion loops.

 

Lower picture: ZZ Top and friends. 

[Edwardian]

I don't know if the Directors of the railway company were in the market for second hand brake vans in 1888, but the London, Tilbury & Southend Railway was offering some for sale. The Barry Railway inspected them but did not buy any.

Jonathan

 

I am certain that they would have been.  Good idea.

[runs as required]

 There is too much invested in CA for me to abandon the project.  I might never extend round the room to Achingham (who knows?), but....

... every so often, I feel over-faced.    

 

I've been away a few days over-faced engrossed in minding half-term grandchildren and what do I find when I return?

Lily livered self doubt rife amongst the orificer classes !

 

Not any acknowledgement of the amount of time it must take to 'mind the shop' and respond to the wilfully Off-Topic contributions from your CA fan club.

I'm not sure how one checks on (rates) these things but this must be one of the more popular threads to call in on when visiting RMweb.

 

Do please allow yourself some credit for being such a good on line host.

 

dh

[ChrisN]

I think it is difficult to rate a thread by the number of 'hits' or responses.  There are others who have more of both, but, but, but they are based in the 1950s/ 60s where for some inexplicable reason a lot of people congregate.  However, this is probably the most visited in the Pre-Grouping forum and probably the most entertaining.

[Stubby47]

It's also one of the most educational. I'm sure we all have our favourite threads and threads we don't look at, despite them being popular (based on view count), but of the ones I frequent this is by far the most diverse in subject and informative. Even if I don't understand much of it.

I do like the buildings, though (remember those...).

[phil_sutters]

Just replace them with wire, or you can get wire spears with heads filed on the end

If you use hard steel piano wire - often sold in model aircraft shops for struts or under-carriages - you can hammer the end flat and grind them to a point. This is the clearest example I can find quickly.

Edited February 24, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Caley Jim]

If you use hard steel piano wire - often sold in model aircraft shops for struts or under-carriages - you can hammer the end flat and grind them to a point.

You can also get guitar wire in music shops in a variety of diameters which have a whole range of modelling uses from handrails to drive shafts.

Jim

Edited February 24, 2017 by Caley Jim

[Edwardian]

It's also one of the most educational. I'm sure we all have our favourite threads and threads we don't look at, despite them being popular (based on view count), but of the ones I frequent this is by far the most diverse in subject and informative. Even if I don't understand much of it.

I do like the buildings, though (remember those...).

 

Well, being a host is easy amongst excellent guests. 

 

From whom I learn something fascinating, amusing or helpful every day.

[Edwardian]

I love the concept of "wilfully off-topic", and it has a certain legal savour.

 

Some slight railway progress has been made inasmuch as I am planning the first baseboards, or, rather, frames.

 

The idea is to create an open frame in ply and to use that to frame and give support to the scenic boards, which are based on foam board. 

 

Once a frame has been built to support the village and castle mound, I can build a similar frame to sit in front.  This will give me somewhere to start on the tracks.

 

As I have made no progress in providing a suitable habitat for the finished layout, I will at least end up with 4-5 boards that can each be worked upon separately.

 

I had hoped to start this weekend, but a heavy cold/'flu means that I am a bit too fatigued and clumsy to be embarking upon wood-work in the outbuildings. 

 

Instead, I have completed my first 1/72nd Peninsular War unit, three battalions of the Spanish Ordenes Militares regiment, circa 1808.  This regiment fought at the battle of Bailen, which is a town in the province of Jaén.

 

The battle dates from the early phase of the war, when the French sought to occupy and suppress key objectives.  A French column of 20,000 men under General Dupont was sent to Cadiz to secure the Spanish fleet.  Dupont had to that point earned a very distinguished career and it was said that, if he secured this plum, he would find his Marshal's baton in Cadiz.

 

En route, at Bailen, he met a Spanish force under a Swiss officer, Reding, was defeated and surrendered his command.  This was a massive blow to French prestige, and Bonaparte reacted rather like Hitler on the latter learning that von Paulus had surrendered Stalingrad.

 

Bailen was a locally decisive military encounter that lead to the capture of a significant French force, however, its military effect was soon reversed, as Bonaparte responded by pouring troops into the Peninsular, with himself at their head.  The battle was probably immensely more significance as a rallying point for the Spanish nation and as encouragement for its new British and Portuguese allies.  The French, could, it seemed, be beaten after all.  

 

Each figure represents approximately 20 men; the wargame equivalent of tighter than prototype curves or short platforms, as has been pointed out!  I have arranged the figures on company-sized bases, with 4 companies to a battalion.  Thus the battalions can be arranged in each of three basic formations:

 

(1) Line, each company side by side, so all companies can give fire;

 

(2) Column of Division, a  division being a pair of companies.  This is a popular formation for an attack column, as it combines the momentum of a column with the frontage of 2 companies to give it firepower; and,

 

(3) Column of Companies, or of Route.  The standard formation for getting about, it has lots of momentum, but only a single company frontage.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Edwardian