NEW OO gauge Crowdfunded Class 92 initiative

[brittannia]

Strange that Accurascale have stated on their RM Web Forum they do not want anymore mention of the DJM class 92, they obviously do not want any mention of a would be competitor, but there is a lot of negative feedback here by people who say they are going to purchase an Accurascale 92 , why bother telling us?

[AY Mod]

They're just being fair and ethical and not wanting too much blood to mop up off the floor each day.

[Great Western]

35 minutes ago, brittannia said:

Strange that Accurascale have stated on their RM Web Forum they do not want anymore mention of the DJM class 92, they obviously do not want any mention of a would be competitor, but there is a lot of negative feedback here by people who say they are going to purchase an Accurascale 92 , why bother telling us?

 

I think it’s professional to be honest, they don’t want to be drawn into a spat about another firm.

 

You’d have to be a hermit under a rock not to know DJ was/is doing a 92, to even attempt to hide it by another firm would be foolish and pointless.

 

Saldy snips at other firms where a feature of this area of the forum.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Great Western

[letterspider]

20 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

92001 had some extra embellishments not found on 92031 including flags on the cab side. Removing those from 92001 and replacing a 0 with a 3 at each number position might be within the skill level of those who want both. Maybe Hornby will make the plainer 92031 for those who must have both EWS maroon locos.

 

I had a quick look around and wasn't sure the best way to do this from Railtec or Fox Transfers. However checking then on Shawpplan website - the nameplate for 92031 is not one he does.

Can anyone recommend 3D printed nameplates?

[srihaggis]

As someone who has taken a first dabble into crowdfunding, I wish to see this product come to fruition. The announcement must be a disappointment for DJM however the way I am looking at it, is that DJM have produced powered models that run well (certainly the ones I've bought are anyway). We are yet to experience the opposition's running quality of a powered model.

[sanspareil]

Well im probably up for a 92 but haven't put my money down with either company yet. I am historically one of the more cautious types, especially given the content of this thread!

 

So, do i hold out and wait who comes to market first, await more finished samples, even wait for forum reviews etc etc? Will I even be able to do it that way? Are both not general release items but made to order type? Thus by the time you see one, seen reviews its too late (unless there are future fresh production runs)?

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, sanspareil said:

Well im probably up for a 92 but haven't put my money down with either company yet. I am historically one of the more cautious types, especially given the content of this thread!

 

So, do i hold out and wait who comes to market first, await more finished samples, even wait for forum reviews etc etc? Will I even be able to do it that way? Are both not general release items but made to order type? Thus by the time you see one, seen reviews its too late (unless there are future fresh production runs)?

Well I see it you have 4 options...

 

Today is (1) Hornby's, with the GBRF, Caledonian and Roumanian version or  in the future the New (2) Accurascale version.

 

(3) You can subscribe to DJModels Crowd Funded versions 

https://djmodels.co.uk/product/class-92-electric-locomotive

 

(4) or you can go with DJ Models own General Release versions from Rails / Hattons / Kernows etc.. They are about £15 more expensive, at £144, but it's pay on release.

 

Hattons

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/3094212/1000588/1000672/0/DJ_Models_Dave_Jones_OO_Gauge_1_76_Scale_Electric_locos/prodlist.aspx

 

Rails

https://railsofsheffield.com/search?Personalise=false&searchTerm=dj+models+class+9&Manufacturer=DJ+Models&Category=Diesel%2FElectric+Loco&Gauge=OO+Gauge&SortMethod=Relevance&page=1

 

Kernow

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/c/1180/DJ-Models

 

Probably other shops too, Ive not checked.

Personally Ive been a bit cautious of crowd funding models, Ive never liked the Hornby one, and maybe at some point my Lima fleet could be up for grabs, I will watch progress on both projects with a side view to Hornbys class 66, as a potential bargain route to chassis upgrades of my Lima class 92 fleet.

Edited February 14, 2019 by adb968008

[njee20]

15 hours ago, brittannia said:

Strange that Accurascale have stated on their RM Web Forum they do not want anymore mention of the DJM class 92, they obviously do not want any mention of a would be competitor, but there is a lot of negative feedback here by people who say they are going to purchase an Accurascale 92 , why bother telling us?

It really isn't strange at all, and you make out that it's somehow a bit underhand, Fran has said: " I do think we should just concentrate on the Accurascale 92 and it’s development on this thread from now on and discuss other models of Class 92s on their relevant threads", which seems to make total sense. Particularly as there seems to be a lot of outpouring of "how dare you" type posts, and people saying "you should have made an 81/84/89 instead", which totally misses the point.

 

It remains frustrating that Dave saw fit to release a press release to everyone on this (let's be honest - he probably needed to), but still continues with his clandestine methods of communication, particularly with all the "things I can't tell you" stuff, either talk about things, or don't say anything, it's been literally years, what sort of things can't be announced!? There was going to be a competition to win a trip on the Caledonian Sleeper I recall, is that still a thing? One for the N gauge and one for the OO gauge I think, picked at random from the backers.

 

Ultimately for me, being interested in the N gauge model, the Accurascale announcement doesn't really affect anything. My understanding is that Accurascale will only produce what they get orders for, which may or may not include retailers I guess, I really hope that should Dave's cease to be viable that he announces it in a sufficiently timely fashion that buyers who may have 'hung on' can still get an Accurascale one.

Assuming both go ahead it'll be interesting to see which prevails, ordinarily I'd suggest that the first to market will likely win, all things being equal, but given only Dave's is going to be available through conventional retail channels that may well be a big plus for him.

[JSpencer]

Option 5 - find a Lima one. I used to have 2 but sold one off.

I have 1 Hornby one as well. All are from the first year of production.

 

Like mose here, I feel Lima is better of the two (especially the bogies and pantos, even the shape) and I'm surprised Hornby never re-released it under their name.

 

One thing is for sure, the market could well soon have two brand new excellent class 92s.

 

11 hours ago, sanspareil said:

 Will I even be able to do it that way? Are both not general release items but made to order type? Thus by the time you see one, seen reviews its too late (unless there are future fresh production runs)?

 

DJM will be doing some for general release. Accurascale will doubtless have some stock to sell once release and re-runs are a dead cert if they sell well (and if they don't you'll be able to pick one up anyway).

You could wait for both to appear before choosing (if you are after just one) but previous duplications seem to show that there is normally a big period of time between each appearing. Product from company A may have sold out by the time product from company B appears (though in many duplications, this did not happen).

 

Edit : Therefore I feel that you do not need to panic to buy them. With hindsite, I was only really ever worried when the first Bachmann SECR C class appeared. So relax, take time to think carefully about the model you want.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by JSpencer

[charliepetty]

8 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Option 5 - find a Lima one. I used to have 2 but sold one off.

I have 1 Hornby one as well. All are from the first year of production.

 

Like mose here, I feel Lima is better of the two (especially the bogies and pantos, even the shape) and I'm surprised Hornby never re-released it under their name.

 

One thing is for sure, the market could well soon have two brand new excellent class 92s.

 

 

DJM will be doing some for general release. Accurascale will doubtless have some stock to sell once release and re-runs are a dead cert if they sell well (and if they don't you'll be able to pick one up anyway).

You could wait for both to appear before choosing (if you are after just one) but previous duplications seem to show that there is normally a big period of time between each appearing. Product from company A may have sold out by the time product from company B appears (though in many duplications, this did not happen).

 

Edit : Therefore I feel that you do not need to panic to buy them. With hindsite, I was only really ever worried when the first Bachmann SECR C class appeared. So relax, take time to think carefully about the model you want.

 

 

 

 

I would suggest that DJ ignores all these comments, gets on with producing the Class 92 before Accurascale and then says 'ITS AVAILABLE' , an announcement stating it on the boat and we will have it in 6 weeks is the best way to shut people up!!   If this does'nt happen then I assume the best man wins!     Charlie

Quote

 

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by charliepetty

[brittannia]

9 hours ago, njee20 said:

It really isn't strange at all, and you make out that it's somehow a bit underhand, Fran has said: " I do think we should just concentrate on the Accurascale 92 and it’s development on this thread from now on and discuss other models of Class 92s on their relevant threads", which seems to make total sense. Particularly as there seems to be a lot of outpouring of "how dare you" type posts, and people saying "you should have made an 81/84/89 instead", which totally misses the point.

 

It remains frustrating that Dave saw fit to release a press release to everyone on this (let's be honest - he probably needed to), but still continues with his clandestine methods of communication, particularly with all the "things I can't tell you" stuff, either talk about things, or don't say anything, it's been literally years, what sort of things can't be announced!? There was going to be a competition to win a trip on the Caledonian Sleeper I recall, is that still a thing? One for the N gauge and one for the OO gauge I think, picked at random from the backers.

 

Ultimately for me, being interested in the N gauge model, the Accurascale announcement doesn't really affect anything. My understanding is that Accurascale will only produce what they get orders for, which may or may not include retailers I guess, I really hope that should Dave's cease to be viable that he announces it in a sufficiently timely fashion that buyers who may have 'hung on' can still get an Accurascale one.

Assuming both go ahead it'll be interesting to see which prevails, ordinarily I'd suggest that the first to market will likely win, all things being equal, but given only Dave's is going to be available through conventional retail channels that may well be a big plus for him.

The first paragraph is your interpretation of what I was getting at, the main point was the last part of my post ,concerning sniping by people who are not interested in purchasing a class 92 from either supplier. Accurascale were rightly cheesed off about the needless posts.

[JSpencer]

11 hours ago, njee20 said:

. My understanding is that Accurascale will only produce what they get orders for, which may or may not include retailers I guess, I really hope that should Dave's cease to be viable that he announces it in a sufficiently timely fashion that buyers who may have 'hung on' can still get an Accurascale one.

 

Looking at their wagons, I am not left feeling they were made just to fill orders. You could still pick up HUOs at Warley.  Under crowdfunding DJ  waits for a target to be reached and then proceeds. Conversely Accurascale don,t seem to wait for anything.  So does Hornby in practice, albeit sometimes they make too much or not enough. However I am totally confident everyone - who wants one - will be able to buy a state of the art class 92. It is the least of everyone's worries.

Edited February 14, 2019 by JSpencer

[Great Western]

22 hours ago, charliepetty said:

 

 

 

 

I would suggest that DJ ignores all these comments, gets on with producing the Class 92 before Accurascale and then says 'ITS AVAILABLE' , an announcement stating it on the boat and we will have it in 6 weeks is the best way to shut people up!!   If this does'nt happen then I assume the best man wins!     Charlie

 

 

 

I think you’ve more chance of raising the Titanic, or breading unicorns than that happening.

[classy52]

9 minutes ago, Great Western said:

 

 

I think you’ve more chance of raising the Titanic, or breading unicorns than that happening.

 

I'm interested in breaded Unicorns, are they are delicacy?

[atom3624]

I saw the Titanic at our local boating lake last week.

 

Look, let's see what happens - I'm keen to see this make good progress and see what Dave has 'up his sleeve' as well.

 

Al.

[Great Western]

2 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

I'm interested in breaded Unicorns, are they are delicacy?

 

 

In the fantasy land of a DJ Class 92 yes !

[JSpencer]

On 14/02/2019 at 19:22, charliepetty said:

 

 

 

 

I would suggest that DJ ignores all these comments, gets on with producing the Class 92 before Accurascale and then says 'ITS AVAILABLE' , an announcement stating it on the boat and we will have it in 6 weeks is the best way to shut people up!!   If this does'nt happen then I assume the best man wins!     Charlie

 

 

I suspect he already is ignoring comments here and there are some info to say his CAD work has greatly advanced. If second payments are made on time, tooling should follow. Should be a more exciting race than formula 1.

 

Edit; We just need Murry Walker to comment on it:

"This circuit is interesting because it has inclines and declines. Not just up, but down as well."

"You might not think that's cricket, and it's not, it'92 racing."

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies about 92s which immediately turn out to be wrong."
"The lead 92 is unique, except for the one behind it which is identical."

"Well, now we have exactly the same situation as at the beginning of the race, only exactly opposite."
"Now he must not go the wrong way round the circuit, and unless he can spin himself stationary through 360 degrees I fail to see how he can avoid doing so."
"Like everybody, I have invested in things that have gone bad, because there's never any guarantee of success or profit when it comes to money."
"If you don't trust someone to look after your investments, then they shouldn't be doing the job for you."
"Anything happens in 92 racing, and it usually does."
"92 racing can never be totally safe and it never should be in my opinion."

'Even in five years time, he will still be four years younger than DJM."
"He can't decide whether to leave hispantograph half up or half down."
"Either the project is stationary, or it's on the move."
 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by JSpencer

[jjb1970]

I really don't see why the Accurascale announcement should affect those paying to crowd fund the DJM model. If people were confident that the DJM model would be good before the other announcement and worth buying then nothing has changed. The fact that somebody else has announced one doesn't mean the crowd funders will lose as if the project is completed they'll still get what they've paid for.

 

Personally I don't like crowd funding and don't get involved (it's not about DJM, I just don't like the idea regardless of companies) but if I had bought into this project I wouldn't see the announcement of a rival as really affecting my position so long as other crowd funders don't walk away. And regardless of what I think about crowd funding etc I do think that if you enter such a commitment then you should honour it. This is one reason I wouldn't get involved, models are a hobby and I can't stand the thought of a hobby I do for pleasure turning into financial commitments hanging over my head, I'd rather just buy when models arrive in a shop even if that means paying more.

 

For those who are not crowd funding then I see competition as a healthy thing.

[PMP]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

I suspect he already is ignoring comments here and there are some info to say his CAD work has greatly advanced. If second payments are made on time, tooling should follow. Should be a more exciting race than formula 1.

 

Edit; We just need Murry Walker to comment on it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 And perhaps interview him sticking his microphone in his eye like he did with Mansell

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by PMP

[jjb1970]

Murray Walker was an inspiration, proof that being inept was no barrier to getting ahead.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

3 hours ago, atom3624 said:

...I'm keen to see this make good progress and see what Dave has 'up his sleeve' as well.

I rather hope he has the development and delivery of what he has already promised 'up his sleeve' before he makes any more announcements.

[81C]

28 minutes ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

I rather hope he has the development and delivery of what he has already promised 'up his sleeve' before he makes any more announcements.

As the Late Paul Daniels would say "not a lot". 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

I rather hope he has the development and delivery of what he has already promised 'up his sleeve' before he makes any more announcements.

Is the recent announcement (advert for pre-orders in the March issue of BRM)  of the N gauge J94/Austerity tank a new announcement or a re-announcement of a previous announcement now the CAD is almost finished and pre-orders are being sought?

 

If his business is to sur prosper it has to produce a steady cash flow and tjat can only come from sales, deposits on pre-orders, and payments on crowd-funded items and in most of those cases money will go out almost as quickly as it comes in or will already have gone out to purchase stock.  So I think it is probably inevitable that he will, like most other concerns, have little option but to be working towards having a continuing flow of projects coming forwards.  But that does need working capital of course. 

[Great Western]

I’d of thought any new “announcement” would be met with a air of right oh sunshine, whatever. Rather than a wow, I can’t wait, take my cash ! 

[black and decker boy]

3 hours ago, Great Western said:

I’d of thought any new “announcement” would be met with a air of right oh sunshine, whatever. Rather than a wow, I can’t wait, take my cash ! 

Well as one who was waiting to see the finished loco in shops and it’s mechanisms and running qualities (being caught by the dreadful J94), I’ve now voted with my cash and placed a preorder where I have more trust.