Where next for the Class 442s?

[mdvle]

SDO should be customer-friendly.  In every instance I know of announcements are mare on platforms before departure and on trains before arrival at short platforms confirming which coaches will have doors opened / locked.  Additionally on-board announcements made by conductors are also both specific and helpful and allow for eventualities such as an HST running in reverse-formation meaning (for example) coaches A and B will remain locked instead of K and L.

 

Which isn't customer friendly.  It may be a necessary evil given the constraints you mentioned but it shouldn't be a default position unless absolutely necessary.

 

How else are we to manage when the level of demand requires longer trains than will fit into a few platforms and those platforms are, by and large, at locations where they either cannot be lengthened due to physical constraints or an extension is not warranted because of low patronage?

But that isn't the case.  We aren't talking about southeast England, the discussion was about Scotland and the shrinking of the 321's to a 3 car 320.

 

In that case presumably the extra capacity wasn't needed, so instead of going with SDO as suggested in this thread Scotrail went for the more customer friendly option of shrinking the train to fit the platforms.

['CHARD]

 

But that isn't the case.  We aren't talking about southeast England, the discussion was about Scotland and the shrinking of the 321's to a 3 car 320.

 

In that case presumably the extra capacity wasn't needed, so instead of going with SDO as suggested in this thread Scotrail went for the more customer friendly option of shrinking the train to fit the platforms.

 

Abellio needed more 320s to make the fleet capacity suit the future franchise demand, hence taking shortened 321s onto fleet strength, as there were no 320s on the shelf. 

[caradoc]

The ex-321 Class 320 sets in Scotland interwork on the same diagrams as the existing Class 318 and 320 sets. Having a small fleet of 4-car Class 321 sets would have caused no end of problems for diagramming and frankly was not necessary anyway, given that these sets were additions to the existing fleet and thus already increasing capacity.

 

Some years ago, for a couple of summer seasons, some Class 156 sets were disbanded so that 3-car units could be formed for the West Highland Line (ie enabling a 6-car train to split into 3 for Oban and 3 for Fort William). Inevitably these sets sometimes ended up on 2-car 156 diagrams out of Glasgow Central and platforming issues ensued.

Edited November 19, 2018 by caradoc

[phil-b259]

 

Which isn't customer friendly.  It may be a necessary evil given the constraints you mentioned but it shouldn't be a default position unless absolutely necessary.

 

But that isn't the case.  We aren't talking about southeast England, the discussion was about Scotland and the shrinking of the 321's to a 3 car 320.

 

In that case presumably the extra capacity wasn't needed, so instead of going with SDO as suggested in this thread Scotrail went for the more customer friendly option of shrinking the train to fit the platforms.

 

SDO is NOT CHEAP to retro fit!

 

For BR era units you are talking about some significant wiring alterations, etc to fit something that was never built into the design*.

 

Post privatisation EMUs / DMUs have generally been built with all the kit for SDO (and DOO) already installed so it costs peanuts to commission these features at a later date if circumstances change.

 

* Similarly because said units lack bodyside cameras and in cab CCTV screens, you need to spend a lot of money fitting them, or spend lots of money fitting loads of platform mounted kit (which needs constant maintenance).

 

Far more sensible to simply reduce the length of the units to match the infrastructure than anything else.

[Ceptic]

The livery, so far.

 

Latest photos of 442 units at Bournemouth Depot, as of 19-20/11/2018.

Courtesy & Copyright :- 'Son of Ceptic'. 

 

442404 Nearest camera.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hal Nail]

I actually quite like the dark green bit. Perhaps they will keep extending it until it’s all done!

Edited November 21, 2018 by Hal Nail

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I actually quite like the dark green bit. Perhaps they will keep extending it until it’s all done!

Green?

['CHARD]

Love the treatment of the MBC, looks like a proper piece of industrial design.  Looking forward to seeing these beasts in action again.

[njee20]

I actually quite like the dark green bit. Perhaps they will keep extending it until it’s all done!

You mean the blue...? I think it looks pretty good. Bit dull.

['CHARD]

You mean the blue...? I think it looks pretty good. Bit dull.

 

I like it - less faffy and busy than many of the horrid schemes devised by people who don't respect the shape and flow of rolling stock designs. 

[4630]

As ‘heritage’ liveries seem to be popular at the moment, perhaps it would be fitting if SWR & Angel Trains agreed to vinyl one of the sets in the original Network SouthEast livery?

[njee20]

I think all the liveries on the 442s have been good actually. I was least keen on the Gatwick Express livery, but NSE, the NSE/SWT and SWT variants all looked great I thought.

 

A 'heritage' NSE one would be pretty cool, rather more of an undertaking than one power car, but if they're redoing them all anyway...

[John M Upton]

The Gatwick Express livery was adapted from the SWT livery worn when they arrived. A few were going around with the SWT orange and red clearly showing through the white on the cab end roofs for quite some time.

[njee20]

Yep, I remember, unsurprisingly given that it never looked quite as cohesive as others. I really liked the Stagecoach/NSE livery on 2402 actually, it's a shame that wasn't more widely adopted.

[4630]

Further to my earlier post about a NSE 'heritage' livery for 442, cue a gratuitous photo from the NSE era.

 

2401 arrives at Brockenhurst with an 'Up' service to London Waterloo in the summer, probably around 1989-90.  Can't be earlier as the unit has lost its jumper covers.

 

 

Obviously any heritage NSE livery would have to take account of the current disability regulations around passenger door visibility.

['CHARD]

Further to my earlier post about a NSE 'heritage' livery for 442, cue a gratuitous photo from the NSE era.

 

2401 arrives at Brockenhurst with an 'Up' service to London Waterloo in the summer, probably around 1989-90.  Can't be earlier as the unit has lost its jumper covers.

 

2401 Brockenhurst c1989-90 - RMweb.jpg

 

Obviously any heritage NSE livery would have to take account of the current disability regulations around passenger door visibility.

 

The last few of these were just being delivered when I started work at Derby Carriage.  NSE livery was so 'of its time' that it felt almost jarringly modern amid the East Midlands trains trundling around, but seeing the above photo it's clear how well-suited their original livery was, it sits really well on the 5-WES' lines....

[Metr0Land]

As ‘heritage’ liveries seem to be popular at the moment, perhaps it would be fitting if SWR & Angel Trains agreed to vinyl one of the sets in the original Network SouthEast livery?

How would you get around the issue of the doors having to be a different colour now?

[mdvle]

How would you get around the issue of the doors having to be a different colour now?

 

A sympathetic designer could come up with a way to deal with it that would work, much like NSE would have had to if they were still around and using the livery.

 

Of course what you would likely get is a designer with unfortunate design choices...

[Gwiwer]

I actually quite like the dark green bit. Perhaps they will keep extending it until it’s all done!

It is a blue shade which in some lighting conditions appears to be dark grey on the vinylled units. Those which are simply painted have these areas coloured dark grey.

[Gwiwer]

How would you get around the issue of the doors having to be a different colour now?

See class 159. Stagecoach livery uses a single colour from the corporate palette on the doors. NSE could be adapted if required. But charter and main-line registered heritage railway stock seems to be exempt so what is the actual requirement?

[Zomboid]

I think the scheme would be very compromised if they did use a different colour for the door - the upsweep at the ends is largely on the passenger door, so having that a contrasting colour would either seriously alter the upsweep, or move it backwards a bit and muck up the lines.

[Ceptic]

I actually quite like the dark green bit. Perhaps they will keep extending it until it’s all done!

 

Hi Hal.

 

I thought, for a moment, that you had spotted an 'in the background' Cl.442, clad in Malachite Green with three horizontal Golden Yellow stripes.   I live in hope.

[Bulleidnutter]

Cant they just bite the bullet and put them in the proper livery for a Southern EMU. Green or nothing else. I still find it hard to think of the GWR having green EMUs. There is hope that someone somewhere in SWT is thinking about all the press the heritage liveries have received recently and might want to reprise the NSE livery.

[Gwiwer]

With all the recent disruptions and a few more events today directly caused by icy weather (and possibly indirectly caused by a lack of timely response, such as overnight de-icing, to that) I suspect that SWR’s Corporate Brain Cell might be thinking “What next?”

 

Tomorrow might provide an answer.

 

And green, yes, provided it is either conservatively done or a restrained modern style. I like Southern’s treatment for example and lined or plain BR EMU green might not be quite the best shade on modern units.

[phil-b259]

With all the recent disruptions and a few more events today directly caused by icy weather (and possibly indirectly caused by a lack of timely response, such as overnight de-icing, to that) I suspect that SWR’s Corporate Brain Cell might be thinking “What next?”.

 

I would just caution that NR does not generally have the resources* to carry out De-icing AND leaf busting at the same time because the same MPVs and wagons get used for both. OK the 'modules' might be interchangeable but it still takes quite a bit of faffing about in depots to swap all the applicators round etc.

 

Plenty of trees round me are still hanging onto their leaves thanks to the generally mild Autumn so far and as such there is still a pressing need for water jetting to be taking place to avoid trains disappearing from sign signalling systems due to dirty railheads. Granted a week of frosty weather will help in persuading the rest to come down but frosty weather will also cause chaos as none of the de-icing trains are ready yet.

 

At some stage (and not too far away now I suspect) a change will happen, but thats largely dependent on the leaf fall stats (i.e. have over 80% of leaves now fallen from the trees say). Of course if we didn't have all those trees lining our railways....

 

* Of course you could have one large fleet of de-icing trains that have to be stored for 8 months of the year and another large fleet of leaf busting trains which you also store for 8 months a year - oh and another fleet of weed killer trains you store for 6 months at a time. That however costs LOTS of money and is very inefficient - and would not go down well at all with the men from the Ministry who run things these days (despite fooling the masses that they don't).

 

Instead NR has a fleet of trains that can be configured to undertake all 3 roles, thus keeping them usefully and efficiently employed throughout the year. The only problem is if two conditions overlap (like the other night) and the trains have not yet been converted from one duty to another.