Where next for the Class 442s?

[frobisher]

With modern EMU's you will find that it is not so much the coupling that is the problem but the computer software on board.  A Desiro can couple to a Electrostar for example but one or the other would have to be dead in tow (or dead being pushed, it has happened on one occasion) as the on board computers would be unable to talk to each other.

Ah! I'd assumed that the MU connection "drums" wouldn't "mate" at all, are these semi-standardised on the new units as well, and it's just the computer handshaking etc. that are proprietary on each is that correct?

 

Obviously if they can't electrically couple, then they wouldn't talk in any case which would have the same result.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Don't think this unit has moved all week............

 

 

[rodent279]

That's the problem with "crayonista" franchising - what possible relationship is there between the East Coast mainline operation, and the intensive express Cambridge shuttles/ Fenline branch services? With TfL taking suburbans, and Thameslink as a standalone operation, outer GN could more happily be part of Thameslink or join Anglia.

 

But whatever crayonista franchises we come up with, there will be awkward bits left over.

 

Paul

 

PS: I've just realised how wildly OT my post was, so... Much as I loved the 442s on glorious non-stop sprints between Waterloo and Southampton, it feels as if their time has passed. Which is a pity. But that's life. It's a bit like the GWML intercity services which justified the long-haul HSTs are now history as that route has morphed into a high-intensity outer suburban service.

If the GW has morphed into a high intensity outer suburban route, at least in part, then that is really a measure of how successful the HST was, and how BR got it right.

[Dunsignalling]

If the GW has morphed into a high intensity outer suburban route, at least in part, then that is really a measure of how successful the HST was, and how BR got it right.

Yep. "Metroland" really does stretch (at least) as far as Bristol these days.

 

John

[rodent279]

I love reviving old posts!

[rodent279]

It's good to see a new lease of life for the 442's. I've always admired them, only ridden on a couple, but thought they were a quality train, at least from the customer perspective. And there is something eminently sensible about reusing kit that still had useful life left in it.

 

That said, they were, like the ECML electrification, done on the cheap, as a short term upgrade, and the work being done on them now is really at least a decade overdue.

 

Slightly OT, what's the future for the class 455/456's, which had similarly reused traction kit-EE507's from withdrawn 4SUB'IIRC?

[George Leacon]

No-one normally needs to go between the vehicles to couple or uncouple buckeyes.  Southern stock has release handles at solebar height operated from the platform.  You cannot remove the human from the coupling process; today's Electrostars require the same number of persons on the platform to oversee coupling and splitting of units as was the case with buckeyes.  Screw-coupled stock - now that's different.

 

The only restriction with high-level jumpers is that the hoses need to be on the platform side.  To divide a train with hoses connected on the "live" side requires special permission from the signaller first.  Diagrams were always arranged to avoid this happening but in day to day operation it arose at times due to diversions, re-platforming or swapping of diagrams.

 

There is no in-service coupling or splitting of 456 units to/from 455 unit on SWR; trains are made up as 8 or 10-cars in the depot and stay that way.  In BR days it was commonplace to cut off one or more units off-peak but that no longer happens.  This saves large numbers of empty stock moves, saves on drivers and paying for expensive pathways for those empties as well.  It is probably much cheaper overall to run long lightly loaded trains all day using more current than might be necessary than to revert to old ways.

 

All true Cappy - on GTR Southern, the frequent attachments & detachments are a constant headache, with the units often refusing to couple up, and station staff frequently finding out the jumpers are on the wrong side. South Western Railway avoid all of these dramas.

[Ceptic]

Latest developments as of 22/01/2018.

 

One unit, visible, in the Carriage Cleaning Shed (There may be others in the Paint Shed) has had it's cab ends and doors painted.

 

 You'll notice that the under-cab fairing / skirt and doors are coloured in a very, very...very Dark Greenish / Greyish / Blue. In fact, Gary, (Son of Ceptic) describes it best as "A very, very dark BR Blue".

 

 

 

 

 

Again, credits and Copyright of photos are due to Gary, (Son of Ceptic).

 

All the best. (Including for the New Year)

Frank.

 

 

 

 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Does Gary know the unit number Frank?

[Ceptic]

Does Gary know the unit number Frank?

 'Fraid not Peter, I did ask.

[Steadfast]

Thanks for sharing the pics guys, interesting to see the work progressing. It's just dawned on me how close the SWR shade is to Caledonian Sleeper Midnight Teal. Both share the "needs plenty of sunlight" to look it's best.

 

Jo

[Ceptic]

Further photos as of 24/01/2018 :-

 

The aftermath of an attack by the Branksome Brain-dead after being stabled out in the depot's western / wilderness end.

 I remember a number of MLVs / Cl.419s suffering the same fate, in the same spot, back in the '80s.

 

There are now four units now in primer. One had to be returned to the Paint Shop after it was found that further welding was required.

Shows this unit after repair with the fairing removed, before being returned for painting.

 

Again, credit for photos and info due entirely to my Son.

 

All the best,

Frank.  

[justin1985]

Interesting to see these pictures. They certainly look nice and fresh on the outside!

 

When they were operating on GatEx/Southern services they were feeling really quite run down. I used to regularly get the Eastbourne to London Bridge service at East Croydon, which was one of their last few services with Southern.

 

As well as the doors that were regularly out of service, my main memory was of the very poor ride quality. There was an awful amount of surging/snatching, like you tend to get with MK3 / Class 90 pushing sets on the Great Eastern. It felt like the braking through the train was never quite in sync! Class 455s seem to suffer from this a bit, but 321s much less so, which are the only other EMUs I've used regularly with the single motor coach "tractor" format.

 

Presumably more modern EMUs are inherently smoother running because the traction motors are distributed more evenly throughout the train?

 

Justin

[Gwiwer]

Almost but not entirely unrelated but has anyone seen 444040 lately? Not noted in traffic for some time and the rumour mill is starting to suggest she’s in for livery tweaks to match the 158s.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Almost but not entirely unrelated but has anyone seen 444040 lately? Not noted in traffic for some time and the rumour mill is starting to suggest she’s in for livery tweaks to match the 158s.

 

 

It was suggested by someone on another forum, that 444040 has gone off for the full interior refurbishment.

 

 

 

.

[Ceptic]

The first unit to emerge showing it's number, still placed as previously, below the cab side windows, but spaced differently.

 

Another view of the unit with Black cab dome and windscreen surround, SYP and missing fairing, pictured in Peter's and previous post (26/01/18). This time accompanied by the Depot's 'Pilot of the Month', 73 235.

 

Photos' Credit and Copyright due to Son of Ceptic.

 

All the best,

Frank. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Ceptic

[Ceptic]

Latest news snippet : -

 

442 419 seen entering Eastleigh Works tonight 01/02/2018, hauled by 37 ???.

 

All the best, Frank.

[4630]

Latest news snippet : -

 

442 419 seen entering Eastleigh Works tonight 01/02/2018, hauled by 37 ???.

 

All the best, Frank.

 

 

37608 working 5Y86.

 

Presumably the first one destined to have the interior and traction mods.

[John M Upton]

Is the open access operator with the odd six 442's still happening as they seem to have gone very quiet.

[4630]

Is the open access operator with the odd six 442's still happening as they seem to have gone very quiet.

 

 

Still under consideration according to the Office of Rail and Road website.

 

There are some paths for Alliance Rail in the system for after the May timetable change, but whether these actually run is another matter, of course.  Here's one for example;

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W20514/2018/05/29/advanced

 

 

Not seen anything more about Alliance Rail's use of the remaining six 442s, or other important matters like crew familiarisation and training !

Edited February 2, 2018 by 4630

[Ceptic]

37608 working 5Y86.

 

Presumably the first one destined to have the interior and traction mods.

 

Thanks for the info 4630.  5Y86's tail end was only just glimpsed (in the dark) from a passing Botley / Fareham line working. It would be interesting to know where the run-rounds took place ?. Poole and ?.

As an aside, there are two 442s, still in Gatex, stabled in the eastern yard of the works.

 

All the best, Frank.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Ceptic

[4630]

Thanks for the info 4630.  5Y86's tail end was only just glimpsed (in the dark) from a passing Botley / Fareham line working. It would be interesting to know where the run-rounds took place ?. Poole and ?.

As an aside, there are two 442s, still in Gatex, stabled in the eastern yard of the works.

 

All the best, Frank.

 

 

The timings suggest that the run-rounds were at Poole and Eastleigh East Yard, Frank;

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O64973/2018/02/01/advanced

 

I wonder if those two Gatex 442s at Eastleigh will be destined to move to Bournemouth once space becomes available in the paint shop??  If so, almost certainly not under their own power, sadly.  

Edited February 2, 2018 by 4630

[Ceptic]

Another snippet : -

 

Prior to hauling 442 419 to Eastleigh, (Working 5Y86) on 01/02/2018, 37 608 had brought Gatex liveried 442 410 from 'The Works' to B'm'th depot earlier in the day. (Working 5Y85 ?) 

 

More nocturnal images, courtesy of Gary, as of 02/02/18 : -

 

 

 

 

 

And one completely off topic, to stop you from falling asleep.

A stranger in the camp. A 166 at Weymouth.

 

 

All the best,

Frank.

[Bailey Gate]

I was surprised to see that 166 at Pen Mill.  Are they replacing the 150s?

[Gwiwer]

16x Turbostar units are set to replace the 158 fleet on the Cardiff - Pompeys and related work,  It would be reasonable therefore to assume that they may also be used to provide additional capacity on routes currently worked by 150 / 153 units including to Weymouth.  With electrification now up and running as far as Didcot and most (if not all) of the 387s in traffic there would be a surplus of Turbos in the Thames Valley so I am not surprised to see them heading west.

 

On a related topic the first 159 i now in traffic in SWR livery.  Believed to be - but not confirmed here - 159103