Where next for the Class 442s?

[Dunsignalling]

The press release certainly doesn't suggest that SWR regard this refurbishment as a short-term stopgap, but as part of their plans for the length of the franchise.

 

John

[Southernman46]

Except for the gentle hum of EE507 traction motors

EE546's - same as 73's ?

DH25 compressors .............. not sure if they reused these

 

All good news - BR got an extra 20+ years out of the CEP's and that was with Swindon doing the work (and some of it was initially terrible). SWR should easily get that out of the 442's - the quality of the Mk3 bodyshell will contribute to that (witness the 1975 vintage HST's which have worked very hard and are only now starting to show signs of fatigue)

[dibber25]

EE546's - same as 73's ?

DH25 compressors .............. not sure if they reused these

 

All good news - BR got an extra 20+ years out of the CEP's and that was with Swindon doing the work (and some of it was initially terrible). SWR should easily get that out of the 442's - the quality of the Mk3 bodyshell will contribute to that (witness the 1975 vintage HST's which have worked very hard and are only now starting to show signs of fatigue)

 

Yes, you're right about Swindon and the CEPs. In those days, anything new for the Southern came to Strawberry Hill and was then brought down to Shepperton to be loaded with weights to simulate a full passenger load. They brought down the first 4CEP fresh out of Swindon and we went to give it a look over, inside. It was a very poor job and I recall seeing lots of screws which had fallen out of loose trim strips just on the journey up from Swindon. Poor workmanship was evident throughout and, as a fan of all things Swindon, I was very disappointed. (CJL)

[Ceptic]

Inside Branksome (Bournemouth) Depot's paint shop, tonight,15/11/2017.

 

5-WES unit nos. 442419 / 442420 + one unidentified (Will they be re-classified / re-numbered ?*) undergoing preparations for the new vinyls. 

 

 

 

 

 

Photos courtesy of Son of Ceptic.

 

*Edited, due to after-thoughts.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Ceptic

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Thanks Frank (and Gary) for the photos.

 

Six of them are stabled-up in two rows alongside Nelson Road, with two more in the carriage cleaning shed attached to 73235, with at least another on the other side of the depot.

 

Plus those illustrated above.

[uax6]

Are they being repainted white first before the new vinyls are going on?

 

Andy G

[phil-b259]

Are they being repainted white first before the new vinyls are going on?

 

Andy G

I'm more interested that SWR seems hell bent on getting them into service before sorting out the serious mechanical / electrical work they need to work reliably and improve things like acceleration rates.

[Ceptic]

Are they being repainted white first before the new vinyls are going on?

 

Andy G

 

From what information I've gathered, the white / grey coating is a two-part epoxy-resin based primer, giving a gloss finish.

I.e. More acceptable to a self-adhesive application.

 

A little like applying transfers / decals to a model's glossed surface, rather than matt.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Here, there and everywhere.

 

Class 442s all over the place at Bournemouth.

 

 

 

[roythebus]

Oink.

[Ceptic]

More, fresh, plastic (Filler / Stopper) applied to the previous ? plastic.

 

5-WES units Nos.442420 & 442404 being prepared. as of 24/11/ 2017 pm., within Branksome Depot's Carriage Cleaning Shed.

 

 

 

 

 

Credit for photos, again, due to 'Son of Ceptic'.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[John M Upton]

Interesting photos.  It looks like the GatEx colours were just bunged on over the existing SWT colours judging by how they look rubbed down again.  Most odd...

[Peter Kazmierczak]

2416 stil in Gatex livery at Bournemouth depot last night.

 

[4630]

I’ve rather lost count of how many 442s have already moved to Bournemouth T&RSMD or Eastleigh in preparation for re-entry to service, and how many remain in storage at Ely. So I’m not sure if these moves from Ely to Eastleigh which have appeared in the schedule for 19/12 and 21/12 are further 442 moves or something else entirely.

 

19/12

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y10019/2017/12/19/advanced

 

21/12

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y10019/2017/12/21/advanced

 

Apologies if these turn out to be something completely irrelevant and/or of no interest whatsoever.

[Gwiwer]

We are reliably informed, on a need-to-know basis, that the SWR units will all receive completely new traction gear with characteristics closely matching the 444s (probably for sound effects as well) in order to homogenise train planning and pathing. The closer to identical the various types the easier it becomes to path more trains since they should all brake and accelerate at much the same rate

 

So farewell to the 1960s Rep gear, then, and welcome to a fleet of Whining Wessex units which are apparently now due back into traffic a year from now at the December 2018 timetable change.

[phil-b259]

We are reliably informed, on a need-to-know basis, that the SWR units will all receive completely new traction gear with characteristics closely matching the 444s (probably for sound effects as well) in order to homogenise train planning and pathing. The closer to identical the various types the easier it becomes to path more trains since they should all brake and accelerate at much the same rate

 

So farewell to the 1960s Rep gear, then, and welcome to a fleet of Whining Wessex units which are apparently now due back into traffic a year from now at the December 2018 timetable change.

 

Any news on whether unreliable and obsolete door systems are being changed or the air con modules (several obsolete types fitted to different units)

 

Yes new traction motors etc may be very welcome but with pretty much every single unit having something diffrent about it, they really need a complete strip out  to bare metal then starting from scratch if you want to get 444 levels of reliability.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Any news on whether unreliable and obsolete door systems are being changed or the air con modules (several obsolete types fitted to different units)

 

 

 

Think I'd give Hitachi doors a miss at the moment.......

[Gwiwer]

Any news on whether unreliable and obsolete door systems are being changed or the air con modules (several obsolete types fitted to different units)

 

Yes new traction motors etc may be very welcome but with pretty much every single unit having something diffrent about it, they really need a complete strip out  to bare metal then starting from scratch if you want to get 444 levels of reliability.

No word. But the intent is clearly to use the basic structure to create a fleet of units which will give Portsmouth line customers comfort and service equal to that on the Weymouth line.

[peterfgf]

Yes, you're right about Swindon and the CEPs. In those days, anything new for the Southern came to Strawberry Hill and was then brought down to Shepperton to be loaded with weights to simulate a full passenger load. They brought down the first 4CEP fresh out of Swindon and we went to give it a look over, inside. It was a very poor job and I recall seeing lots of screws which had fallen out of loose trim strips just on the journey up from Swindon. Poor workmanship was evident throughout and, as a fan of all things Swindon, I was very disappointed. (CJL)

Presumably that was when the workforce in Swindon knew that they were going to be shut down.  No one will do a good job in those circumstances.  I had a bit to do with Odense shipyard in Denmark.  They built very good vessels until the last half dozen when the yard knew that they were going to be closed.  The vessels's Superintendent described these as the worst fitted-out vessels he had ever come across.

[Dunsignalling]

Any news on whether unreliable and obsolete door systems are being changed or the air con modules (several obsolete types fitted to different units)

 

Yes new traction motors etc may be very welcome but with pretty much every single unit having something diffrent about it, they really need a complete strip out  to bare metal then starting from scratch if you want to get 444 levels of reliability.

New power door systems are presumably being developed for the HST stock after it is displaced from front-line duties by the 800s, and further sales will no doubt be welcomed by extending their use to the 442s. Indeed, those designing them would have been sensible to familiarise themselves with the way such doors have been previously applied to Mk3 body shells before starting.

 

As for the aircon, its not rocket science and ripping the lot out and fitting uniform new modules across the fleet will be a no-brainer, I should think.

 

The overall cost of such an extensive fleet upgrade will dictate a need for SWR to get at least 10-12 years further service from these trains and I doubt they will be daft enough leave in stuff that is already known to cause trouble. 

 

John

[Bomag]

Presumably that was when the workforce in Swindon knew that they were going to be shut down.  No one will do a good job in those circumstances.  I had a bit to do with Odense shipyard in Denmark.  They built very good vessels until the last half dozen when the yard knew that they were going to be closed.  The vessels's Superintendent described these as the worst fitted-out vessels he had ever come across.

 

 

Apart from the prototype the CEPs were refurbished Dec 79 to Dec 83 and the closure of the works was announced AFAIK sometime around 1985. In which case it may be they other way round - closure was more likley due to the poor quality than the quality being poor because it was already down to close.

[phil-b259]

One of the other useful mods that could be undertaken with the 442s is to get rid of the buffers + Buckeye and high level air pipes in favour of something that can mechanically couple to a 444 / 450. Otherwise one of the 442s developing a fault and requiring assistance will cause an awful lot of problems on the busy Portsmouth route - particularly if it is sandwiched by other Desiro formed trains!

[frobisher]

One of the other useful mods that could be undertaken with the 442s is to get rid of the buffers + Buckeye and high level air pipes in favour of something that can mechanically couple to a 444 / 450. Otherwise one of the 442s developing a fault and requiring assistance will cause an awful lot of problems on the busy Portsmouth route - particularly if it is sandwiched by other Desiro formed trains!

How common is such a recovery though (assist via another working unit)?

 

And isn't it only necessary because locomotive recovery requires translation vehicles or couplings?

 

And aren't the two or three 73's for thunderbird duty on the line in any case?

[phil-b259]

How common is such a recovery though (assist via another working unit)?

 

And isn't it only necessary because locomotive recovery requires translation vehicles or couplings?

 

And aren't the two or three 73's for thunderbird duty on the line in any case?

 

As to how common assisting is, others who work for TOCs may be able to advise.

 

As regards 'Thunderbirds' while SWR do have a class 73 based at Bournemouth it is not there as a 'Thunderbird' (Its not a lot of use with the 444s and 450 used down there, neither will it be much help with the 159s nor the new suburban fleet....) its there as a sort of depot shunter / icebreaker / route learning thing.

 

Even if the 73 does happen to be available its not going to be easy to get it to the stricken unit as more than likely the 442 will have several 450s sat in rear of it. The longer a unit sits down (possibly with no air con / heating etc) the grater the risk passengers will start to do something silly....

 

Thats why when Thameslink were operating several types of EMUs with incompatible couplings, they had to ensure units were sent through the core in batches so there would always be something in front or in rear that could couple up in case of a failure.

 

As such it seems sensible that if you are going to the trouble of replacing all the traction gear (and thus probably making it incompatible with the 73s anyway) you might as well change the couplings too.

[frobisher]

As such it seems sensible that if you are going to the trouble of replacing all the traction gear (and thus probably making it incompatible with the 73s anyway) you might as well change the couplings too.

But as we're talking recovery of a dead unit, that doesn't matter surely? I mentioned the 73's not because of MU compatibility (I don't know if that ever was practically used with that combo anyway) but because they were there. Any loco can recover the 442's with their current draw gear.