A Cartoon of Helston(ish)

[treggyman]

Hi Tony

 

In my opinion the lighting does help......

 

In the last picture the ripple effect of the stream looks really good....Look forward to a picture when the embankment is finished.....

 

AS regards gorse....Apparently there are three types of Gorse in this country.....

 

The common Gorse....The prickly bush we all know.....

Then there are the Western & dwarf gorse....Both flower later in the year....

Summer/Autumn but both are dwarf types so not the bushes you I suspect are thinking of....

 

Looking good....Keep up the good work

 

Cheers Bill

[Mulgabill]

Hi Tony

 

In my opinion the lighting does help......

 

In the last picture the ripple effect of the stream looks really good....Look forward to a picture when the embankment is finished.....

 

AS regards gorse....Apparently there are three types of Gorse in this country.....

 

The common Gorse....The prickly bush we all know.....

Then there are the Western & dwarf gorse....Both flower later in the year....

Summer/Autumn but both are dwarf types so not the bushes you I suspect are thinking of....

 

Looking good....Keep up the good work

 

Cheers Bill

Thanks Bill, its always good to get feedback.

 

The gorse will develop along with the other scenery, at the moment I haven't a clear picture of what I want to achieve, so it'll have to stew for a bit.

 

I'm glad you think the lights are worth the effort, but a pretty cheap improvement at about £22. And I think the pics are better for it.

 

If the water looks OK I'm pretty chuffed 'cos that cost pennies, and a bit of patience. I'll gradually try to improve the bank/water interface as we go.

 

Will keep plodding on, has there been any progress with Haydon Gurney> Or are you still a "carer"?

 

.

[treggyman]

Hi Tony

 

Still a carer though back at work for the last couple of weeks.....

 

There has been a little bit of progress....Hope to update in the next day or two......Emphasis on little mind....

 

Cheers Bill

[Mulgabill]

Last weekend we went here

 

 

The GCR model railway event.

 

Where it was really too hot to fully appreciate the wide variety of layouts on show, and in the morning the main marquee was also very crowded. I had hoped to meet one or two RM Webber, but I gather PeterBB had been there on Friday, and I didn't recognise anybody else. I did however bump into a previous owner of my sons sailing dinghy, who recognised my sailing polo shirt. I also had a chat (at the 3rd attempt) with Jacub from L Cut Creative, who was so helpful with drawings, doors and windows for my station and engine shed. I relieved him of a few few windows, with a view to starting on the mill building.

 

It seemed every time we wanted to rest our feet, by going to another site, we were taken by :-

 

 

Which I noted was the same age as me, and coped with the heat rather better.

 

Since returning home I had a diersion, of sorts, mounting these

 

 

Which had been kept from a 2013 callendar, not only does that recoup some brownie points, but it yielded some useful off-cuts of card.

 

These have duly begun the process to match with some of the modified windows. The aim being to produce a small mill, based on this

prototype. (Litterally a screenshot from the computer) The real thing is at Upleadon (Glos).

 

 

As mentioned before the model is I'm guessing approx half the size ofthe original, for it to stand a chance of fitting the available space.

 

So we come to the state so far, with it roughly in place on the layout.

 

 

 

 

 

It will need more adjustments to the site than I'd hoped. But on the whole my first reaction is that it looks to be improvement. I've yet to decide whether to clad with brick plasticard, or paper texture.

 

As always I welcome any observations, suggestions, which will help keep me in touch with this project. (Although I must also find time to do some work on my dinghy, but its now too hot for sensible epoxying, and varnishing).

 

 

[Stubby47]

Tony,

 

When making buildings for a lop-sided ground area, you might find it easier to include some footings on the building.

 

That way the building can be sited on a flat base, and the ground built up around it afterwards.

 

(I know you've done the ground here first, but cutting a hole and fitting a flat base, planting the building and then remedial ground work would be just as applicable).

 

Stu

[KeithHC]

Well said Stu have a look at the Bron Hebog blog Bronghebog.blogspot.co.uk. Rob Waller has been building the small housing estate at Beddgellert which is very multi leveled and he uses the additional footings system.

 

Keith HC, sweltering below Stinchcombe.....

[treggyman]

Hi Tony

 

Veery nice work....

 

However....Being supercritical/pedantic.......

 

What is the mill milling?

 

If it's using the stream as power the stream in my opinion isn't big enough or have a large enough reservoir to power an (unseen)wheel.....

Also...Access.....Not enough space for road vehicles to be loaded/unloaded.....

Looking at the picture of the structure you are basing the model on it has a large forecourt......

 

As I say....Looks good & I'm nit picking....

 

Cheers Bill

 

PS I'll find time for some modelling myself someday!!!!!!

[Mulgabill]

Bill, Stu and Keith, thanks for your comments. Most of which I agree with, but I'll make a few comments here.

 

The mill, I've just looked up was an undershot  corn mill, and is grade 2 listed. The actual river(?) is not usually more than about 6ft wide, but floods across 3 fields quite readily. Not a location I would have thought good for a mill, but its there. My river(?) was included before I decided that I wanted to include the mill.

 

So here we have a conundrum 'cos I tend to go with the flow, rather than having pre-planned everything. In fact the form of the land was built a while back, without even the level crossing and road. I did try to leave a space for the mill, which will have been visible in earlier pics, but I then found that there was about half the space I really wanted.

 

I adjusted the size of the building, whilst trying to retain the proportions, to what was in the photos.

 

The real thing does have a forecourt, but its really smaller than it looks on the streetview. On the model it will be lost, but the road will effectively end at the mill. (Possibly there will be a ford and rough track the other side). I may try adding some footings, if/when i get to cutting out a new space.

 

I am reasonably happy with my adjusted windows, which are not the same, but hopefully will capture the feel.

 

What I remain undecided about is brickpaper or plasticard for cladding. Could plasticard brickwork have too much texture for such a small building? (And I've never really done much in plasticard before, unless you count a 45 year old part built model of Filton junction).

 

Keith - have you made any progress towards your layout since your move? I feel a bit guilty that we haven't yet had a chance to meet up, we should do so soon.

 

Any more comments will be more than welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

Bill, Stu and Keith, thanks for your comments. Most of which I agree with, but I'll make a few comments here.

 

The mill, I've just looked up was an undershot  corn mill, and is grade 2 listed. The actual river(?) is not usually more than about 6ft wide, but floods across 3 fields quite readily. Not a location I would have thought good for a mill, but its there. My river(?) was included before I decided that I wanted to include the mill.

 

So here we have a conundrum 'cos I tend to go with the flow, rather than having pre-planned everything. In fact the form of the land was built a while back, without even the level crossing and road. I did try to leave a space for the mill, which will have been visible in earlier pics, but I then found that there was about half the space I really wanted.

 

I adjusted the size of the building, whilst trying to retain the proportions, to what was in the photos.

 

The real thing does have a forecourt, but its really smaller than it looks on the streetview. On the model it will be lost, but the road will effectively end at the mill. (Possibly there will be a ford and rough track the other side). I may try adding some footings, if/when i get to cutting out a new space.

 

I am reasonably happy with my adjusted windows, which are not the same, but hopefully will capture the feel.

 

What I remain undecided about is brickpaper or plasticard for cladding. Could plasticard brickwork have too much texture for such a small building? (And I've never really done much in plasticard before, unless you count a 45 year old part built model of Filton junction).

 

Keith - have you made any progress towards your layout since your move? I feel a bit guilty that we haven't yet had a chance to meet up, we should do so soon.

 

Any more comments will be more than welcome.

Very good Tony!

[KeithHC]

Hi Tony

No progress on the main layout as it needs a loft conversion so maybe a few years away. However i have been looking at the garage and there is a possibility. The only problem is what do I model. I have thought about a freelance based on the Southern heights light railway(I was brought up on Southern 3rd rail) or maybe Cardigan town(I have lots of photos of the main buildings taken in the 70's) or maybe a bit of the S&D.....

 

Getting back to your mill, could i suggest that within in your time frame it could be dissused so that the mill pond could be filled in.

 

Keith

[Mulgabill]

Its quite plausible that the mill would be disused (would that let me off making the wheel?), but apparently the prototype was still operating in 1995, producing animal feed.

 

There is also reference to the (river) banks being strengthened / diverted to supply the mill, but no mention, or obvious signs of anything like a millpond.

[Mulgabill]

Decision was made to clad with brick plasticard. Quite simple really I had some, and currently don't have a useable printer!

 

Have therefore got sore fingers from cutting out all the doors & windows (again) but this time from plastic.

 

Have also adjusted the left side extension so that it is at a higher level than the main building. Hopefully I can  adjust the topography a little easier now.

 

So here is a pic of it assembled, and in location which has been cut out to accept a card base.

 

 

I spent yesterday evening painting all the doors and frames ready to progress today.

 

Today I remembered I needed to paint the windows as well - Doh!

I also sprayed the building with primer, tried it in place, photographed it. Then realised I'd forgotten to file back the corner overlaps.

Definate case of more haste, less speed.

 

Howerver here are a couple of it in colour,

 

 

in place.

 

 

I have now painted the windows, and will take a file to the corners, which means a respray before I can start fitting them.

 

I can now answer a question I posed in my last post, re the waterwheel. There is a legitimate get-out - I have come across ana old photo of the original, which show it originally have an extension on the river end of the building, which enclosed the wheel. So cahances are I'll knock up a "lean to" for starters, and buy some time before coming up with a convincing wheel. If or when I get one made, the shed can be dispensed with.

 

Next post will include the next couple of workings in the timetable, some including the mill as it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[treggyman]

Hi Tony

 

Looking good.......

 

We've all forgotten to do some 'vital' job & still survived to tell the tale.....

 

Cheers Bill

[Mulgabill]

Thanks Bill for your response.

 

The mill will continue, but I also must get my boat varnished, half way through the year and its not seen the water yet!

 

I also managed to catch the next couple of timetabled workings from the early 60s period which I'll share now

 

Next due was the 8.25 arrival of the St Erth/Gwinnear Rd - Helston Milk empties, but this didn't run. Long Rock therefore sent a substitute loco, light engine, which is caught creaping under the bridge at 8:55

 

 

Following this is the branch train, seen leaving Truthwell Halt, on time at 9:12 behind NB type 2 D6338

 

 

And arriving at Helstonish, to find the Warship stabled on the goods shed road, right time - 9:17.

 

 

Time is now tight for the Warship to get its train sorted, but fortunately today the shunt is farly straight forward.

The stock alongside the loading bank is shunted back into the milk depot

 

 

The full CWS milk tanks are coupled up and drawn out beyond the bridge.

 

 

before setting back onto the Full Brake in the goods shed. The goods wagons were then returned to their place by the loading bank.

 

 

Its train is now ready, at 9:25

 

And there we'll take a break, more next time.

 

 

 

 

[Andrew P]

Nice operation Tony, It's looking good my friend.

[Mulgabill]

Last time we saw the Pencarne Milk leave, with the branch train due to follow. But today is not your usual day.

 

Next we find a 4575 tank has been purloined from shunting at Nancygollen, to come to the assistance of the NB type2

 

 

Having dragged the errant hydraulic out of the goods loop, they set back onto the waiting train. Its now 9:52, so already a couple of minutes late!

 

 

They finally get away at 9:58, could have been worse, and are glimpsed as the clock strikes passing through the cutting.

 

 

Good job its not Friday or Saturday, when this train would be replaced by the Helston portion of the CRE relief. Mind you

that might have been allocated something more reliable to start with!

 

We manage a couple more views as the train progresses across the embankment approaching Trutwell Halt

 

 

 

As it happens there is a path in the WTT for an engineers train (as required) from Helstonish at 10:15 so the day should

not be disrupted unduly. There is no engineers stock, or loco at the terminus today.

 

You may notice from the pics the mill is progressing, although the doors and windows didn't go in as readily as I had anticipated. 

Might need some good weathering.

 

I'll wish those of you going to Gnosal tomorrow a very good day. My thoughts will be with you, but other responsibilities preclude me

from making it.

 

All the best

 

 

[Mulgabill]

Herself is out ------ so I've been playing!

 

I'd become concious that I've been tending to fiddle with construction, and ignoring the reason we have layouts. So I thought I'd work a bit further through the timetable, and grab some pics at the same time. Apologies some didn't come out too well, but may have been included to give a complete picture of the operation.

 

Next in the schedule was a goods working, due to arrive at 10:50

 

Before this could happen the consist needed to be determined. 5 cards were drawn from those in the fiddle yard rack

 

 

As luck would have it the total is 9 which is the max allowed load (9 + Brake). The train is then formed in the fiddle yard, by hand

 

 

Today it was headed by D601, already relegated to freight it seems.

 

The train was caught passing the mill on its way down the branch.

 

 

After arrival the Fruit D was detached and shunted into the goods shed from the down end.

 

 

The train was then run around via the platform road, and the engineers Bogie Bolster carrying scrap rail was propelled into the headshunt out of the way.

 

 

Shunting was then interupted, when the Warship had drawn back into the loop, by the arrival of the 11:50 branch train. Today without any tail load, although sometimes there is something attached to this working. Note that the 4575 is still standing in for the NBL Type 2.

 

 

The passenger is due back out at 12:15 but the loco is required to assist in the shunt whilst it is here.

 

We'll follow that next time.

 

Any errors spotted, or suggestions for improvements, please share them with us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mulgabill]

In my last post I should have said the next outward loading was dictated by the available stock in the yard. There being less than 5 cards for stock already present, then all would be despatched. Along with the bogie bolster of rail which came in on the down train and was to be worked back to Truro. (Thats my story). The appropriate cards were transferred to the fiddle yard rack to match the train move.

 

Picking up the sequence - The prairie ran around and parked up in front of the signal box.

 

D601 then recommenced shunting, by moving to the loading bank to pick up both the string of vans and the serpentine hoppers which are required for the next outbound goods.

 

 

In the middle of this coillection it then moved to the loop.

 

 

The branch engine then assisted by removing the hoppers and depositing them on the goods shed road.

 

 

It then returned to its train, and departed promptly at 12:00 as scheduled.

 

 

Left to its own devices The NBL type 4 carried on withdisposing of its train. Here viewed in the cutting whilst shunting.

 

 

And shunting the 2 milk tanks into the depot

 

 

I consider that there is an engines must not pass mark at the 1st crossing in the yard, hence the convenient head of vans to shove the tanks in!

 

 

That poses the question - is that reasonable, or would locos have been allowed full access?

 

And a supplementary, would they have been banned through the goods shed?

 

That completes the handling of the morning goods, next will be forming the next outwards goods.

 

Back soon with some more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mulgabill]

In my last post I should have said the next outward loading was dictated by the available stock in the yard. There being less than 5 cards for stock already present, then all would be despatched. Along with the bogie bolster of rail which came in on the down train and was to be worked back to Truro. (Thats my story). The appropriate cards were transferred to the fiddle yard rack to match the train move.

 

Picking up the sequence - The prairie ran around and parked up in front of the signal box.

 

D601 then recommenced shunting, by moving to the loading bank to pick up both the string of vans and the serpentine hoppers which are required for the next outbound goods.

 

 

In the middle of this coillection it then moved to the loop.

 

 

The branch engine then assisted by removing the hoppers and depositing them on the goods shed road.

 

 

It then returned to its train, and departed promptly at 12:00 as scheduled.

 

 

Left to its own devices The NBL type 4 carried on withdisposing of its train. Here viewed in the cutting whilst shunting.

 

 

And shunting the 2 milk tanks into the depot

 

 

I consider that there is an engines must not pass mark at the 1st crossing in the yard, hence the convenient head of vans to shove the tanks in!

 

 

That poses the question - is that reasonable, or would locos have been allowed full access?

 

And a supplementary, would they have been banned through the goods shed?

 

That completes the handling of the morning goods, next will be forming the next outwards goods.

 

Back soon with some more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

Locos must not pass... another piece of string question; it depends.  Unless there is a specific reason for locos not to be allowed into certain roads, they should be able to run anywhere in a BR or main line company owned yard, under handsignals from a competent person under the authority of the yard supervisor and at an overall speed limit of 15mph.  Any restrictions as to access or speed applicable to certain classes would be found in an appendix to the working timetable, and could be quite specific and sometimes covered unlikely situations, making fascinating reading. They are based on clearances, particularly on GW outside cylinder locos, and wheelbase on sharp curvature rather than weight restrictions by and large.  Local staff would know of such restrictions, as should drivers and guards as part of their route knowledge, so no notice would be necessary on the ground (by which I mean sticking out of it).  

 

Private sidings, collieries, and the likes of clay dries, harbours (Par) and dairies in a Cornish context, were different; where the concern had it's own locos or shunted by capstan, or even horse, rails were often too light or curvature too tight for even small main line locos and the 'GWR/Railway Executive/BRB engines must not pass this board' sign would appear at the point at which the loco had to intrude in order to pick up or drop off traffic, sometimes at the gate.  At the same time, the private shunting engine is not allowed out of the gate onto BR metals (some North Eastern colliery locos excepted at places like Philadelphia and South Pelaw, where their NCB drivers and guards had to pass out on BR rules and sign for route knowledge), and I wince when I see this happening at exhibitions, which is all too often.

 

It might appear in a railway owned yard as well of course; the famous 'Engines Must Not Enter The Potato Siding' notice from Sheffield was because the potato siding was above the potato store and the ceiling was not strong enough to carry the weight ot a loco.  I am not familiar with procedure for the coal drops common 'oop north' but I imagine they were similarly restricted.  How are you going to unload those hoppers?

 

Your goods shed looks to have plenty of room for a loco to enter, and I can't see why one would be banned from it.  We used to take class 37s into the one at Pontypridd with a very small gap between the loco and the door frame, and this had to be done dead slow not only because of the limited clearance but also because we were setting back into a location we couldn't see properly and in which men might be working in other vehicles, or goods not yet properly stacked and secured in them, so any contact had to be very gentle.  Any propelling of wagons into a goods shed must be done with extreme caution and as slowly as the loco will move at for this reason.

Edited July 13, 2017 by The Johnster

[The Stationmaster]

D6XX were prohibited from entering a number of goods sheds on Cornish branches (e.g. Fowey) and were barred from numerous sidings.  I suspect the latter was due to axleload and possibly also physical clearance issues while the goods shed ban would have been due to physical clearances.  They were of course RED engines for Route Availability.

 

PS Without wishing to rock upset your boat, and it is of course 'Helstonish', the Gwinear Road - Helston branch was RA BLUE and the only permitted diesel class was the D63XX.

Edited July 14, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[Mulgabill]

Thanks to "the Johnster" for a comprehensive clearing of the basic situation re locos must not pass etc.

 

From this I will derive that I don't need to erect signs, but will tend not to routinely run locos through the goods shed, and the milk tanks will generally continue to be propelled by spare stock, 'cos then you won't see the locos stall on the crossing (shhh).

 

Also thanks to Mike - I did know that the D63xx were the only diesels permitted on the Helston branch, but unfortunately running the layout with only those, or 45xx prairies would get a bit repetitive.

 

Whilst trying to maintain the feel of the original, I can sometimes believe that had the Airfield been built a couple of years earlier, then the line may consequently have been upgraded, thereby allowing heavier locos. (In my defence you've not seen my 28xx which has remained resolutely in its box. Bar a brief testing session when I got it a couple of years ago).

 

Now before we continue through the timetable, I'll offer you the Helstonish version of the train which it seems is the current rage. (Well on ANTB and Little Muddle anyway).

 

 

 

 

 

These also give some clues as to progress on the mill, although its taken 3rd place behind a day out at Diggerland, and messing up the varnishing of my boat. But at least my varnishing ineptitude was not on the river cober near Helstonish!

 

All the best

 

 

[The Johnster]

To enlarge on some of the 'locos must not pass' points. Mike is of course right when he points out that axle load and clearance problems were the cause of certain classes of locos being banned from certain roads, and diesels, when they appeared, occasionally fell foul of clearance issues because of their length.  A D6xx is a fairly long beast as well as being heavy for a hydraulic, and overhang on the inside radius of curves might be an issue in the case of some goods sheds on curves.  It worked in the vertical plane as well, and 'Westerns' were prohibited from the reception roads at Margam because of their ability to 'ground' on the release road that was a smaller version of the hump and alongside it; not a Cornish issue, but an illustration.  

 

A 'loco must not pass' sign is not the same as a 'Stop' board, on the GW and WR a backlit device with the 'S

                                                                                                                                                                             T

                                                                                                                                                                             O

                                                                                                                                                                             P' written vertically.  This was a point at which the train was to come to a stand at the entrance to a yard or sidings and await being called ahead by a handsignal from a 'competent person under the authority of the yard supervisor'.  Past it, the driver was controlled by hand signals and verbal instructions from staff on the ground, as all points would be hand operated and there would be no fixed signals.  I cannot see that you need one of these on Helstonish, and mention it in the interests of completeness and avoiding confusion with the 'must not pass' boards.

[The Stationmaster]

Oddly the maximum axleload on a D6XX was lighter than the maximum axleload on a D8XX  (those extra wheels made a difference)

[Mulgabill]

I'm sure somebody asked about offloading facilities for the serpentine hoppers, but I can't find it at present. So whoever it was, thanks for asking.

But the serpentine is despatched from Helston(ish), so its only loading that needs to be catered for. This is done utilising the loading chute above

the kick-back siding, (opposite the engine shed). Offloading occurs "up country", although there seems to be great uncertainty as to where and why

in the real world. Here its in the fiddle yard, or would be if the loads were removable. Another job for the list!

 

Continuing the days sequence, with such photos as I have to hand:

 

Having deposited the tanks, the wagons are taken to the station loop. And the spare brakevan deposited on the goods shed road.

 

 

The wagons were then shunted down to the headshunt, to pick up the Bogie bolster, before being set back into the loading dock, to

complete the train with a brakevan.

 

 

Now what I suspect may be a contentious move. At 14:05 the goods departs for the junction.

 

 

But would it have been allowed to depart from that line?  From what I've seen there were only 2 "proper" signals at Helston, for up trains. They were on a bracket near the signalbox. (There was another bracket just beyond the bridge, for down trains). Quite what they refered to, or what ground signals were also present, I am unsure. Thankfully I've not got to the signals stage yet, however I'll need to know.

 

We finish with a couple of shots of the 14:05 goods approaching Truthwell Halt

 

 

 

Next in the timetable is the 15:03 arrival of the branch passenger, but I'll have to find some playtime before I can bring you that.