Hornby announce Class 800 IEP

[TFR]

Any idea if you have to pay up front?

 

Payment at dispatch (Q4 next year)

Edited November 26, 2016 by TFR

[Ian Hargrave]

I think most of us saw this one coming.It will set new standards.I can only marvel .Well done Hornby R&D.Nice approachable people keen to talk with us for our views and opinions.The GWR set will come as one 5 car unit.I applaud this move .Some it seems preferred the option of a purchase of separate carriages as in the HST 125 's.This cuts out the need to scratch around for separate coaches which is not always an easy task.We had an interesting and stimulating debate on the Hornby stand on this subject.,which I believe they found very useful.Conversations like this made my day and sent me on my way an exhausted but happy bunny.

[melmerby]

Some picture from Warley:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not enough light and too much perspex to get a clear shot

 

Keith

[toboldlygo]

I think most of us saw this one coming.It will set new standards.I can only marvel .Well done Hornby R&D.Nice approachable people keen to talk with us for our views and opinions.The GWR set will come as one 5 car unit.I applaud this move .Some it seems preferred the option of a purchase of separate carriages as in the HST 125 's.This cuts out the need to scratch around for separate coaches which is not always an easy task.We had an interesting and stimulating debate on the Hornby stand on this subject.,which I believe they found very useful.Conversations like this made my day and sent me on my way an exhausted but happy bunny.

 

I bet you mentioned the green issue again Ian, didn't you

[ess1uk]

Nice looking model.

Well done Hornby

[Ian Hargrave]

I bet you mentioned the green issue again Ian, didn't you

 

Er...no.the word did not not pass my lips.Let's just say black is the new green.

[caradoc]

I always think the name super express train sounds like something you'd find on a cheap plastic kids train set in a seaside gift shop. Horrible really ,just like the real train!

 

Personally I think the Class 800 looks superb, both the real thing and Hornby's new model. As to what they are like inside, perhaps we should wait until they're in service before passing judgement ? 

[Captain Kernow]

As to what they are like inside, perhaps we should wait until they're in service before passing judgement ? 

You are free to wait if you like, but from what I've heard already, I think I'll go ahead and just pass judgement anyway.

[phil-b259]

You are free to wait if you like, but from what I've heard already, I think I'll go ahead and just pass judgement anyway.

FWIW the interior fit out will depend on who ordered them. Let's just say that the DfT specified 700s for Thaneslink with rock hard seats, a lack of fold down tables and wi-fin + charger power points doesn't inspire confidence with the IEPs they have procured.

 

The ones ordered by GWR direct for services to Devon / Cornwall could potentially be a different story.....

[farren]

Good grief, those photos are given me trouble thoughts for a confirmed LMR Modoler. I'm rather tempted in a five car set. By far the best looking modern prototype models I think I've seen.

Edited November 26, 2016 by farren

[melmerby]

I wonder how much of the "Javelin" tooling Hornby can use as both are versions of Hitachi "AT300" train series?

 

Keith

[trevor7598]

I'm not the slightest bit interested in an IEP. But I have to say it looks as though Hornby

have done a thorough job with this model.

Unlike the Class 91 and MK 4's which although a long time ago now, were rushed out,

and today are ' railroad ' at best. And that has been the East Coast's premier train

for almost 28 years. Their first attempt at an HST was a toy too.

How times have changed !.

[royaloak]

I have been rather critical of Hornby recently but after having a look at their stand today (actually yesterday) I have to say I was very impressed with what was on offer, the all new 87 looks fantastic, this new plastic cr-p* looks bloomin good as well.

 

Here is hoping they are starting to give the diesel and electric models the attention they deserve which is the same as other manufacturers have been giving them for a few years.

 

 

Now will all the manufacturers please stop announcing the models I want, my wallet cant take much more!

 

* actually a term of endearment, honest!

[phil-b259]

I wonder how much of the "Javelin" tooling Hornby can use as both are versions of Hitachi "AT300" train series?

 

Keith

None!

 

Just because the manufacturer of the real thing describes them as being of 'the same family' (that mostly relates to the techical equipment installed) it does not follow that one can be created from the other.

 

The Javlins are 20m long vehicles (so they fit round the SECR routes away from HS1) with 1/3rd and 2/3rd door positions.

 

The IEP vehicles are 26m long, have doors towards the coach ends, plus have different under fame arrangements due to their bi-mode capabilities.

 

Finally the Javlins model is - like the Duke of Gloucester or Tornado, fundamentally a 'railroad' standard model, but promoted into the ordinary range by an enhanced paint job and a few easy to add extras (with the Javlins this included coach interior mouldings). The Pendalino is similar - it was designed for the train set market rather than a super detailed model. Today however Hornby confirmed the IEP will be designed as part of their 'super detailed' range.

 

In any case, as is custom with models of new prototypes, the manufacturer (Hitachi) have apparently been very helpful and supplied call the drawings (plus IIRC made one of the prototypes available for Hornby to examine. Why try and do a bodge job when you have all the resource material available to start afresh?

Edited November 27, 2016 by phil-b259

[cheesysmith]

To justify a high spec price tag, it will need some way for the nose cone to either open, or be removeable to allow a coupling to run 10 coach (2x5 car) sets, and a auto working panto from DCC. Without these, at £75 notes per coach, it is looking like either Hornby are predicting further price rises from china/exchange rate problems, or they may fail the basic value test. This is not a critisism, just to say these need to have value for the price being charged.

[Oakydoke]

Nobody likes to read or hear criticism of new models and so far nothing here.

This model looks great, but I hate to be the first to suggest that there appears to be an error with look of the front end.

It's difficult with the angle of the photos and that the views are almost all looking down from above.

I hope I'm wrong and it's just the viewing angle, but the headlights certainly look too small and mis-shaped.

 

Are these just just handmade prototypes?

[Oakydoke]

To justify a high spec price tag, it will need some way for the nose cone to either open, or be removeable to allow a coupling to run 10 coach (2x5 car) sets.....

A very good point, considering that the 5 car trains will be mostly seen running in pairs.

[Legend]

Really great to see this and the samples look superb. I had failed to grasp the real things were 26m long. A 5 car train will be lengthy and an impressive sight . However there will be some clearance difficulties. Anyone figured out what radius will be required for two to pass without making contact?

 

A bit puzzled at the limited edition 2 car set. It might appeal to collectors , but wouldn't you first want to know that intermediate cars will be available before taking the plunge here? Have I missed that? A 2 car unit by itself just looks ridiculous , not that I have any notion of what runs between them.

 

What it has done is stimulated an interest back in the current railway scene for me. Must swot up on IEP program. It seems not so long ago that the Class 87 was the look of the modern railway. Euston to Glasgow in 5 hours . 1974 ! Seems things have moved on. I'm getting old!

[TomE]

Are these just just handmade prototypes?

 

 

3D printed samples, and the lights were just transfers. The shape looked pretty much spot on to my eyes. 

 

Tom. 

[jjb1970]

To put the £75 per vehicle price into perspective, the Bachmann Class 450 has an SRP of £299 for a four car train, or also £75 per vehicle. And that is effectively a rerelease of the Class 350 tooling which has been around for a few years now, made simpler by not needing a pantograph. I believe the next 4CEP/Class 411 releases are the same. And the latest 2EPB releases were well over £100 per vehicle although admittedly that comparison is unfair as the fact it only has two vehicles of which one is a power car distorts things.  The pre-order price for the Realtrack Class 156 is £200 or £100 per vehicle, again that is distorted by only being a two car but to get that £200 you have to pay £41 up front when pre-ordering. Given that this IEP is new tooling and the SRP has been announced after the plunge of sterling and that Hornby are not using asking for any pre-order deposit, using crowd funding etc then it doesn't look unduly expensive in todays market to me.

[MrB]

Any idea if you have to pay up front?

They take your card details when you order and no money is paid until dispatch, expected 4th quarter 2017.

[Oakydoke]

3D printed samples, and the lights were just transfers. The shape looked pretty much spot on to my eyes. 

 

Tom.

 

Thanks Tom.

I wonder if the cab side windows on these promo examples are transfers too?

[cheesysmith]

Using the real track 156 to compair it to isn't valid. That has a low hight motor in both coaches and if you looked underneath a hell of a lot of separate detail and wires added. To be honest, the level of underside detail on these is even better than that of the 143/4 they did before. The IEP has most of the bits covered with aerodynamic covers, like the mk3, so there is few separate detail bits to add. The model train would require fewer separate bits to add. The real thing almost says railroad spec, and how much did the full fat mk2s cost. The coach with the motor cannot be compared with something like the 87, as the number of separate bits on that would exceed the total for even the full 5 coach trains.

 

At £75 notes per car, it needs to be special to pass the VFM. At £50 per car, I would have said ok.

 

I await the finished model to see what we get with interest.

[Ron Ron Ron]

..... A 2 car unit by itself just looks ridiculous.....

 

Well a 2 car unit running on its own would definitely look ridiculous, considering it would be impossible for the prototype train to do so.

The driving cars don't have any traction motors (nor diesel engines in the Bi-Mode version).

 

 

....Must swot up on IEP program.

 

First port of call in swotting up...

Clue...."programme program" ....?????

IEP is not the name of the trains themselves.

 

 

.....It seems not so long ago that the Class 87 was the look of the modern railway. Euston to Glasgow in 5 hours . 1974 ! Seems things have moved on. I'm getting old!

An interesting (and to me, a sobering) way to think of it is like this...

1974 is 42 years ago.

42 years before 1974 was 1932.

 

Yes 1974 WAS a very long time ago.

 

 

.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Ron Ron Ron

[jjb1970]

Using the real track 156 to compair it to isn't valid. That has a low hight motor in both coaches and if you looked underneath a hell of a lot of separate detail and wires added. To be honest, the level of underside detail on these is even better than that of the 143/4 they did before. The IEP has most of the bits covered with aerodynamic covers, like the mk3, so there is few separate detail bits to add. The model train would require fewer separate bits to add. The real thing almost says railroad spec, and how much did the full fat mk2s cost. The coach with the motor cannot be compared with something like the 87, as the number of separate bits on that would exceed the total for even the full 5 coach trains.

 

At £75 notes per car, it needs to be special to pass the VFM. At £50 per car, I would have said ok.

 

I await the finished model to see what we get with interest.

Some fair points, however from what I can see the 156 price is a pre-order price if you pay £41 now. I've no idea what the regular price will be. That also doesn't alter the fact that this model is similarly priced to other MU models using mature tooling (which, presumably is fully amortized) and whose SRP was announced before the plunge in the value of sterling. Whilst not cheap I really can't see this model as being over priced relative to other MU models.