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Bachmann Midland 1P 0-4-4T


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Thought it was time this prospective model had a thread of its own. Has anyone any thoughts as to what sort of duties this loco fulfilled? I'm particularly interested in the London area, and wondering which routes, and which sort of trains, those locos allocated to Cricklewood and Plaistow worked on. The P suggests passenger trains, but Cricklewood was primarily a freight shed, and maybe the condensing locos worked short freight trains across to the Southern via the Widened Lines? Any info would be much appreciated.

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Originally passenger tanks almost exclusively. They had plenty of 0-6-0s and 0-6-0Ts for freight. I've never actually seen a picture of one on a freight train.

 

First on suburban trains and then downgraded when trains became heavier and were replaced by larger engines such as Flatirons and then Fowler 2-6-2Ts and 2-6-4Ts.

 

Later mostly branch line locomotives until replaced by Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2Ts. A few clung on until around about 1960.

 

 

Looking for coaches to go behind them?

 

The Ratio Midland Railway kits are ideal, especially the Bain suburbans and the clerestories.

 

You could also use the Dapol/Airfix LMS non corridor lavatory stock and the new Hornby LMS non corridor coaches.

 

 

 

Jason

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Quite a number were fitted for Pull Push I think.  No one does any Pl Ph LMS coaches (why oh why?  :dontknow: ) but the new Hornby PIII Non Corridors can be converted.  The old Airfix/Dapol coaches wouldn't be correct for this.

 

John

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I'd like a Midland D1246 driving trailer, & an LNWR M49. Edit - or an LMS D1771 P1 54' driving trailer...

 

The LMS built coaches, & those converted, are available and able to be converted - but I'm not aware of the above 2 available in any form.

 

I'm sure Hornby have plenty of time to announce & produce the minimal changes required to their none gangwayed period 3 LMS stock prior to the arrival of the 1P, which would be a starter for 10 in RTR terms I suppose.

Edited by Jub45565
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London Road models do an LNWR M58 driving trailer, which was pictured at Keighley but it is not known whether it worked on the KWVR (let alone with a 1P - though they were in use intermittently there til 1958).

 

Source: Midland Record no. 35

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I'd like a Midland D1246 driving trailer, & an LNWR M49. Edit - or an LMS D1771 P1 54' driving trailer...

 

 

 

Larry Goddard used to make a LNWR M49 driving trailer - presumably just a limited number of them - I bought one from him but have since sold it.

 

Graham  

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Larry Goddard used to make a LNWR M49 driving trailer - presumably just a limited number of them - I bought one from him but have since sold it.

 

Graham  

A few MR Bain non-corridors were adapted into PP sets and can be converted from the Ratio kits though the bogies need changing from 10ft wb as in the kits to 8ft wb.  Some were still about in BR days.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

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For anyone wanting more info on the prototype variations, the best place to start is the Wild Swan, Midland Engines no 1:

  • No.1 -'1833' and '2228' Class Bogie Passenger Tanks
  • By Fred James, David Hunt & Bob Essery
  • ISBN-10 187410350X

I can't personally answer any questions from it right now, as I have leant my copy out, but it is available for £10 and definitely worthwhile...

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They worked all sorts of passenger trains from suburban commuter trains of four-wheelers, six-wheelers and bogie stock out of London and other large conurbations like Leeds, Manchester and Birmingham down to rural branch lines with one or two coaches. As has been already said, the Ratio Midland coaches are just right for these locos, as are the old Slaters six-wheelers (although I would suggest these are not 'beginners' kits and if you can still get complete kits from Coopercraft). I am also contemplating modifying some of the Ratio GWR four-wheelers for 'workmens' trains (good enough to make a reasonable representation). The Airfix/Dapol suburban coaches are not suitable as they are toilet fitted and would not see much branch line use but I agree the recent Hornby ones would be a better bet. A cheap source for a PP conversion used by many people has been the old Graham Farish suburban brake coach. Some of the LMS coach conversions seem to have retained their duckets and some didn't.

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Period III LMS conversions did not have duckets after the first couple of examples.  The early PIII conversions were pre simplified lining (1932 ish) so would have had the Midland, all singing and dancing style - not an easy job for the modeller (certainly not me).  Much easier is to take a Hornby PIII NC and stick a Comet etch on the front.  To be correct the Hornby fitted ducket will have to come off (it's held on by two pins), so some filling, paint and lining touch up.

 

P1010003-003_zpsdrx18ldn.jpg

 

John

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Bachmann say that these locomotives "were distributed widely across the former MR and S&DJR system from North Yorkshire and the Midlands ....". In relation to North Yorkshire, where would that include, please? Places like Skipton? What about further east? Would they work any trains on to LNER territory?

 

I'd really like a BR early crest in 'normal' form, but from Bachmann's photo, it looks as if the first release of the BR early crest will be with condensing pipes. Is that really what they are doing?

 

John Storey

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You could always buy a shed load of them, and model early Leicester. Screen shot from BRdatabase.

 

The one shown at the bottom of the table was actually used on the Southwell branch, and I think, outstationed at the GNR shed at Newark on Trent (subshed of Grantham).  There were two which apparently worked alternate weeks.

 

Les

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The one shown at the bottom of the table was actually used on the Southwell branch, and I think, outstationed at the GNR shed at Newark on Trent (subshed of Grantham).  There were two which apparently worked alternate weeks.

 

Les

The Southwell train appears in a photo on Dave Ford's thread in this post. I started a separate thread (don't ask me why!) here to identify the carriage and coachmann identified it as an LNWR M71 which is available from London Road as a kit.

 

Note that the carriages in the other photo I linked appear to be the MR types mentioned above. Most photos of the Cudworth train show an 0-4-4t and not a radial tank so that's one service where they probably worked together. Anyone know of any pictures of the driving end of these conversions?

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I'm delighted that Bachmann have chosen 58072 as one of the three first releases. Allocated to Highbridge in 1952, withdrawn 1956. Both my Great Grandfathers were SDJR engine drivers based at Highbridge, and retired in the mid 1950s. I reckon the chances that one or both of them had driven this loco approaches 100%.

Neil

Edited by Downendian
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. A cheap source for a PP conversion used by many people has been the old Graham Farish suburban brake coach. 

 

Yes, I have one of those tucked away in the loft, though it hasn't turned a wheel for many years and didn't turn that many even before, due to lack of anything suitable to pull it once I understood more about such things.

 

Someone used to sell a little plastic moulding for the distinctive three-window end, which made it a fairly simple simple 'cut out, glaze, stick in and filler round the edges, then just add a couple of vac pipes' job, though I've no idea how accurate that left the rest of the body.  For anyone who's never seen one, those Graham Farish 00 bogies had tension lock couplings with a hook so long and sharp you could have cut it off and used it as a harpoon on a model whaling-boat!

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I'd really like a BR early crest in 'normal' form, but from Bachmann's photo, it looks as if the first release of the BR early crest will be with condensing pipes. Is that really what they are doing?

 

John Storey

The loco Bachmnn have announced in that livery is 58072 and it had condensing pipes in BR days, so yes, the model should have them. 

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Very pleased to see a true S&D engine, a great choice. The 1P were such a part of the Somerset landscape for many years.

 

As I have said elsewhere, I do hope we see S&DJR No. 54 released in blue but this loco was first supplied in 1920, still in Midland red but lettered S&DJR......Also possible that we can have 54 in S&D Blue but lettered and numbered as LMS 1305 (?).

 

 

As a modeller of the 1950's S&D there are a few possibilities.

 

58073- lined BR black lettered British Railways ( condensing pipes...Aug 1953)

58086- As above-no pipes. ( Aug 1953)

 

58047 would be nice. Round topped firebox, Salter safety valves with LMS on tanks but BR number and number plate.....but gone by Aug 52.

 

 

As for LMS days......

 

Rob.

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Partly answering my own question (#1) - these locos were used, in Midland and LMS days, on suburban passenger trains connecting the Midland (both St Albans and Tottenham & Hampstead stations) and LCD&R via the Widened Lines. There's a great b&w pic of 2322 in Midland livery at Kentish Town still carrying an appropriate white diamond route indicator in Geoff Goslin's Steam on the Widened Lines Vol 1

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Hello Ian

 

No.58086 was the last one. She was at Bath Green Park shed in 1960 but had been stored since May of 1959, I believe.

 

There are a number of published photos of the loco there, one of which is in The Colour of Steam Vol.2, The Somerset & Dorset Line, by RC Riley. In that photo, someone has chalked No.70000 above the smokebox and cabside numbers.

 

Brian

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Hello Ian

 

No.58086 was the last one. She was at Bath Green Park shed in 1960 but had been stored since May of 1959, I believe.

 

There are a number of published photos of the loco there, one of which is in The Colour of Steam Vol.2, The Somerset & Dorset Line, by RC Riley. In that photo, someone has chalked No.70000 above the smokebox and cabside numbers.

 

Brian

 

Still there in April 1962, according to this I found: http://www.archive-images.co.uk/gallery/Archive-Colour-Images-of-the-Railways-of-Somerset/image/66/No_58086_Bath_Green_Park_Shed_1962

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