Teaky's attic

[chris p bacon]

Never seen or used a steel padstone, was always told to use reinforced concrete block padstones. Interesting

 

Padstones can be either concrete, steel or engineering brick. What they can't be is soft block or brick. The advantage with the steel pads is they don't need to be so thick and so it doesn't mean chopping down behind the existing ceiling joists.

[teaky]

It was an exchange of emails with Chris P Bacon that prompted me to discuss the padstones with the structural engineer.  The original calculations specified the more common concrete ones but they would have intruded into the first floor bedrooms by 150mm or more and getting them into place without damaging the bedroom walls would have been challenging to say the least.

 

The steel padstones specified were 10mm thick but there was a small mix up with the ordering at the steel fabricators and when the builder went to check yesterday he opted for 15mm padstones using some otherwise identical material the fabricators had in stock.  I reckon I can afford to loose the extra 5mm.

 

The steel padstones are longer (wider left to right when looking at them in situ) so the load is spread across more of the supporting blocks than with concrete ones.

[teaky]

Perfect coordination first thing this morning.  I was just unlocking the gate and moving my wife's car when I heard the delivery lorry reversing down the road (we live at the end of a cul-de-sac) and just as he reached the drive, the first builder turned up.

 

The builders have installed about three quarters of the new rafters on one side.  Given that getting the angles of the cuts right on the first one takes a little care and that there are a couple of awkward ones on that side, it suggests to me that they are in with a good chance of finishing the rafters tomorrow.

 

I might take some photos later or wait until tomorrow.

[teaky]

Well they almost made it.  Just two rafters to go (or is that two halves of one rafter?).

 

Oh, plus the bad news I will have to break to them tomorrow morning that two of the existing rafters are in the wrong place.  I asked for them to put the new rafters on the outside of the existing ones at the point where the front gable roof meets the main roof.  This is to avoid narrowing the gap too much where I will be putting an access door/hatch.  So instead of a 560mm gap I currently have a 410mm gap. 

 

After taking a second look after writing the above, I may have to compromise on moving only one rafter and having a 485mm gap in order to avoid a clash with a window on the opposite face of the roof.  Anyway, I'll see what they say tomorrow.  Access is important but won't be used frequently.

 

I managed to take a couple of photos, more for the record than anything but they give a good idea of the relative dimensions of the old and new rafters.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky
Re-adding photos.

[teaky]

The excitement (or is it fear?) is tangible this morning as three builders and three scaffolders await the delivery of some large pieces of steel.

 

They are adding to and adjusting the scaffolding arrangements and setting up the Genie lift as I write.

[Stubby47]

Will they be fitting the baseboards for you as well ?  Y'know, whilst they're up in the loft...

[teaky]

No.  If they do that then the BCO will probably want to inspect them which would mean I'd need structural calcs. and probably end up with huge steel beams supporting them after he misunderstood what I meant when I said they needed to support 1930s mainline steam locomotives.

[chris p bacon]

Funny enough I was in a neighbours loft this morning, 15mm hot pipe (mains pressure as combi boiler) a fitting came off the shower feed from a previous DIY job (Speedfit push fitting onto chrome pipe is a no no) they're away so granny is house sitting and it flooded the house with boiling hot water,  She couldn't get near it so came across to me.  

Turned off in the road immediately but the volume of water in the loft was unbelievable,  it had been running for 2-3 minutes.

 

Now I've dried out and heading outside....to get wet in the rain.....going to be one of those days!

[teaky]

Rain stops play. 

 

Both steel beams have been delivered and are now sitting up on the scaffolding.  It is too wet to open up the roof to haul them inside so the builders have now left.

 

With luck things will be dry enough tomorrow to get crackgoing again.

 

Edit: To change a word and not tempt fate!

Edited October 19, 2017 by teaky

[teaky]

Not much to report today.  They finished the odds and ends on the rafters, spent time doing some careful measuring and putting in some temporary bits of timber to facilitate instalation of the steel beams.  Whilst it would have been nice to see more visible progress I'd prefer the steel beam instalation to go smoothly so that's OK with me.

[teaky]

Well that's the fastest gutter clear out I've ever done.  I managed to spin it out to a whole ten minutes.  Might be a little extreme to have scaffolding put up every year though.

[teaky]

I also fixed a short length of guttering at one corner that had been bugging me for years.  The house builders had failed to put a bracket near enough to the end of the run which resulted in the gutter sloping the wrong way and overflowing in heavy rain.  I could just about get a ladder up to it but the narrow path meant the angle was so steep I had to point my knees out to the sides whilst climbing and the need to lean backwards at the top in order to reach around the gutter put me off.  Heights don't bother me but that was just too unpleasant and the idea of using a drill and other tools was out of the question really.  However, kneeling on a scaffolding plank 200mm below the gutter with a handrail to one side ... piece of cake.  Not that it stopped my wife saying "ooo, is that safe all the way up there?"  At least it shows she cares.  (Or perhaps there's an exclusion clause in the insurance policy.)

[teaky]

Roof windows

 

Two of the five roof windows are now fitted.  Not too difficult but leaving this to a builder who has fitted lots of them, albeit not of this brand, is reassuring and much faster than I'd manage.  The first one seemed to take ages but the second one took a fraction of the time.  Pleasantly surprising how much brighter the loft is already.

 

 

There has been quite a bit of the usual sawing, hammering, drilling and angle grinding but I'm not sure what they've been doing all day really but they finished later than usual and they aren't being paid by the hour.

 

The uncertain weather forecast and the proportion of roof tiles due to be temporarily removed mean instalation of the steel beams is now scheduled for Wednesday.

Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky
Re-adding photos.

[73c]

That's a really tidy job on that roof light. 

[manna]

G'Day All

 

With all this weight going up in the roof........................how's your foundations.........   I jest of course 

 

manna

[teaky]

Based on the amount of junk I cleared out prior to starting work, the new steel and timber additions might well be lighter. 

[teaky]

Rain stops play again. 

 

Three of the five windows are in.

 

Set for an early start tomorrow for the steel beams.

[teaky]

Steel beams are in. 

 

Floor joist timber has also been delivered.

 

I'm not expecting much else today.  I think putting back all the roof tiles that were removed will take the rest of the afternoon.  Mind you, they are sawing something up there.

 

I am pleasantly surprised by the lack of damage from getting the steel beams in place.  They were in four pieces weighing around 200kg each with four people lifting them into place.  Although there were boards down to spread the load, this is quite a concentration of weight on some skinny ceiling joists.  There is a 250mm hairline crack in one bedroom ceiling which is so small it might even be covered by paint and in another bedroom a small (50mm²) patch of plaster fell off plus I had to tap a nail back in.  Trivial.

Edited October 25, 2017 by teaky

[Stubby47]

Have you got a track plan sorted yet ?

[teaky]

Have you got a track plan sorted yet ?

I'm just trying to decide what track to use.  I'll ask over on the Peco bullhead thread.  I'm sure I'll get a clear answer quickly without any conflicting advice.

[teaky]

Each steel beam was made in four sections and bolted together.  In theory, they could be in one piece but at almost 800kg each they might have been tricky to handle!  (You can see why I opted not to do this bit myself now.)

 

Here's a picture to illustrate.  (There's a further section to the left of the shot.)

 

 

This represents a significant step in the process.

 

The piece of timber sitting on the beam is just a piece of scrap but the next step will see a timber plate bolted to the top plate of the steel beam and on top of that will go a series of short posts to provide additional support to the new rafters.  The holes at the ends of the steel beams will also be made good with bricks/blocks.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky
Re-adding photos.

[bgman]

Looking extremely neat and tidy Rob, it's a measure of a good builder from my experience and worth its weight in gold when the day comes to an end. It becomes pleasurable to commence the following day without stumbling over debris and loose tools etc .

 

Grahame

Edited October 25, 2017 by bgman

[manna]

Each steel beam was made in four sections and bolted together.  In theory, they could be in one piece but at almost 800kg each they might have been tricky to handle!  (You can see why I opted not to do this bit myself now.)

 

Here's a picture to illustrate.  (There's a further section to the left of the shot.)

 

steel.JPG

 

This represents a significant step in the process.

 

The piece of timber sitting on the beam is just a piece of scrap but the next step will see a timber plate bolted to the top plate of the steel beam and on top of that will go a series of short posts to provide additional support to the new rafters.  The holes at the ends of the steel beams will also be made good with bricks/blocks.

G'Day All

 

All this for a model railway !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how big are your 'Loco's' ???????

 

manna

[teaky]

I know Manna.  The steel beams and all the timbers seem way over the top.  I don't know if is true or not but I was told by someone who ought to know that they are around 2.5 times what is required.  This struck me as ridiculous margin of error but I'm stuck with it.  I need structural calculations in order to obtain building control sign off.  I know I wouldn't buy a house with any significant alterations which didn't have this, so it is unavoidable.  I am hoping that the value added to the house will be more than the cost.

 

Bear in mind though that the steel beams have an unsupported span of 8.2m so it is quite different from the usual span of, say, domestic floor joists.  Plus they carry the entire weight of the third storey - floor, roof, finishings (insulation, plasterboard etc.), room contents, occupants, allowance for weather (e.g. snow, gales) and so on.

[teaky]

Looking extremely neat and tidy Rob, it's a measure of a good builder from my experience and worth its weight in gold when the day comes to an end. It becomes pleasurable to commence the following day without stumbling over debris and loose tools etc .

 

Grahame

Yes, they have been fairly tidy.  There's pile of debris on the drive at present but a skip is due to arrive today (Thursday) so that will be sorted.  Most of the sawing of timber has been done on the drive and always swept up at the end of the day too.

 

Yesterday, the head builder was clearly pleased about the way the steels had gone in and was delighted how they lifted slightly as the bolts were tightened, taking the weight from the structure below exactly as they should.  It was nice to see this and seemed more like pride in the job than relief at taking another step towards finishing and payment.