RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 15, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2017 I have just about stopped itching now! I have spent most of the day moving insulation around. Bit of an odds-and-ends day today. Multiple small tasks, many of which are not especially visible but need to be done. Access to the rear eaves would be too awkward because there is so little space above the steel beams so I have written this off as storage space and it now has an increased depth of loft insulation. One possible future idea would be to fit a hatch in one of the back bedrooms from which this storage could be accessed but I’ve just filed this idea away for now. I suspect one ought to question whether one has too much stuff if this was necessary. I have added a few more lengths of timber to the boxing for the flue, together with some additional fire proof board and some insulation held away from the flue using steel mesh. The next thing will be to add a layer of PIR insulation to the side and underneath followed by some fire rated plasterboard. The end wall with the two soil vent pipes running across it is now insulated. A polyethylene vapour control layer (VCL) will be stapled to the front prior to plasterboarding. The roof windows have trickle vents but the loft was built with a couple of air bricks in the gable walls so rather than blank these off (often not a good idea anyway) I have built in ducts at each end of the room with sliding hit-and-miss vents over them. As well as giving me some adjustable ventilation there is some forward planning here as these ducts also facilitate fitting of an extractor fan for a future shower room and/or an outlet from a spray booth. You can see one of these ducts (yet to be cut to length) sticking out from the end wall. Some of the older insulation from the floor has been used to top up the rear eaves and the newer insulation which is in better condition has been refitted more carefully and evenly to the required depth of 100mm. I have now been able to calculate how much more I need and further rolls have been ordered. The cabling to provide power and a linking connection to a new smoke alarm has now been clipped to one of the old rafters and runs up to the apex ready for the smoke alarm to be connected. The primary junction boxes for lighting and sockets have been screwed down ready for cable runs to be made. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 18, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) Aside from the distraction of our dishwasher going on the blink, the last few days have continued the "odds-and-ends" theme with small tasks completed in preparation for later tasks. A small piece of mesh was cut and stapled over the old hatch position to restore the integrity of this fire safety measure. Joists and trimmers have been cut for the stairs area. The central joist has been fitted and those to the side will be fitted as soon as more joist hangers arrive. The trimmer to which the top of the staircase will be attached is roughly in place but will not be attached properly until the stairs arrive so that small adjustments can be made. I have used a marker pen to draw lines on the rafters which will be used to position battens prior to installing PIR insulation. (Just visible to the top left of the picture below.) The other end wall now has battens (more recycled rafter pieces cut from the original truss rafters) fixed to it to create an air space and another duct fitted to the airbrick. The battens will be covered with sheets of PIR insulation. Now for some lunch followed by more autumn internationals on the telly. Edited November 18, 2017 by teaky 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Nice conversion! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 23, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2017 No posts for a few days but I have not been idle. Insulation between the floor joists topped up. (Front half only so far. Back half to follow.) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 23, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2017 End wall VCL fitted. PIR insulation added to boxed in flue. Floor boards fixed to approx. 2/5ths of floor area. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted November 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2017 So when does Mrs Teaky move into her new sewing/reading/get-away-from-the-family room ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 23, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2017 I suspect she'll just be happy to get me out of the way. Actually, I have offered to reconfigure the study for her once I have cleared my model railway stuff out of there. Currently she has her desk, shelves etc. in the guest bedroom which is fine until we have guests staying. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 27, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) I have finished laying the insulation in between the floor joists. Just need my local supplier to get some more flooring panels into stock and I can progress with the other half of the floor. The ring of cable for the sockets is in place and will be connected at the appropriate point. The second end wall is now insulated with PIR sheets over the framework of battens. I have made a start on the insulation between the rafters. This is probably the messiest, most unpleasant job of the lot, but at least progress is easy to see which makes it satisfying. About two thirds of the rafters also have battens nailed to them to act as stops when the insulation is pushed into place and to keep the air space above clear. The only reason this is not completely done is that I'm using it as a break from fitting insulation. It's actually fun to do as I'm using the electric stapler previously used for the steel mesh which is now loaded with 32mm brads (nails). No photos. Mainly because the area looks like a bomb site! Edited November 27, 2017 by teaky 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 30, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2017 The stairs are in ... the cupboard. Is it just me or do they seem a little steep? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 30, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2017 Needless to say, further work is required. It was a tricky enough, with my son's help, to manoeuvre them this far. They seemed to clash with about every obstacle en route between their starting point of half on the landing and half in one of the bedrooms and the position in the photo. What you see took an hour and a half to achieve! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2017 A really interesting read so far, to the point that I have just got down from the roof with a tape measure.... Will enjoy watching it progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb900f Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just to clarify the use of FD's, it isn't necessary to have them in bathrooms or wc's as you quite correctly say Rob, however, I would be very guarded when/if purchasing " used " firedoors and check if there are any labels still attached to them ( usually found on the tops of them ) and if you decide to purchase any "second hand" run it passed your local BCO who is there to help. FWIW..... Its not worth skimping on fire safety, I'm sure many viewers would agree, and there are quite a few unscrupulous sellers who would be happy to pass on doors as approved FD's. During my career as a BCO I had to ( happily ) reject quite a few doors for obvious reasons, and despite the initial upset I was thanked for my intervention later during the builds. Don't know whether there are different regs for different areas but I have 11 interior doors and the inspector has said that I need to fit 11 firedoors . That includes a bathroom, a toilet and an airing cupboard. From an attic dormer window I can access a flat roof but that is not permitted either. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 G The stairs are in ... the cupboard. stairs 2.JPG Is it just me or do they seem a little steep? G'Day Folks I'm not sure about the steepness of the stairs, but I think it would have help if you had taken the other two ladders out of the way first !! manna Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 Don't know whether there are different regs for different areas but I have 11 interior doors and the inspector has said that I need to fit 11 firedoors . That includes a bathroom, a toilet and an airing cupboard. From an attic dormer window I can access a flat roof but that is not permitted either. Pete My understanding is that the regs are the same for England and, I think, Wales. They differ for Scotland but a lot of the differences are weather related. I'm not sure about Northern Ireland. However, the regs are really just (strong) guidance on minimum standards and local Building Control are free to interpret them as they see fit. That being said, over the last few years I have been trawling the web for all sorts of building related information and there is a great deal of consistency in information provided by different councils. I have never seen anything to suggest that fire doors are required for bathrooms or cupboards. There is virtually nothing combustible (last night's parsnip phall excepted) in a bathroom for example so how does having a fire door contribute to creating a fire proof escape route? If you haven't done so already, I recommend you look at the Approved Documents (part B1 in the case of fire but you should look at all of them). If you go to the website of your local council then to your local building control they should provide a link to the latest regulations information as well as specific local information. Or via this direct link: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/approved-documents The flat roof thing, I cannot comment on, but there is definitely something in the "means of escape" section(s) of the Approved Documents which covers various ways of designing exit routes. If you read the Approved Documents and get an understanding of the requirements you should then be able to ask Building Control to explain why you need eleven fire doors. There may be a simple misunderstanding or there may be a good reason why your case is different. I have always found BCIs to be helpful and have used my BCI as a source of advice as well as the inspection role. If you've paid a fee, you should be getting something for your money. btw - Anyone looking at the Approved Documents for the first time might find them daunting (I know I did) but once you get used to the style and are reading them in context with a rough idea in mind of what you are seeking to do they are actually quite easy to follow. I do recommend though that each time you find a key bit of information you make a note of the section and document. And download copies, it will be easier in the long run, but make certain you have the latest versions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) On 01/12/2017 at 00:25, manna said: G G'Day Folks I'm not sure about the steepness of the stairs, but I think it would have help if you had taken the other two ladders out of the way first !! manna Ah, so that's why it was so difficult. Actually, I thought the new staircase might be lonely, so I put a couple of friends nearby. The real reason is that after struggling for an hour and a half to get that far I just shoved everything out of sight and closed the door before vacuuming the landing and cooking dinner. Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky Typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 Don't know whether there are different regs for different areas but I have 11 interior doors and the inspector has said that I need to fit 11 firedoors . That includes a bathroom, a toilet and an airing cupboard. From an attic dormer window I can access a flat roof but that is not permitted either. Pete FYI Pete. My conversion includes a bathroom and airing cupboard on the first floor, and a toilet and understairs cupboard on the ground floor, none of which require the doors to be changed to fire doors. Not only is this my reading of the regs but it was covered specifically in a conversation with the BCI before work commenced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted December 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) Do the fire doors also have to be self closing?We have a couple of doors which are never fully shut, due to the way we use the house.As an aside, our loft space is an open 14' x 20' between purloins purlins and end-walls, but having an open plan lounge & staircase prevented any conversion to a 3rd floor due to lack of fire exit corridor. Not that I'm in anyway jealous of your new room... Edited December 1, 2017 by Stubby47 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) Do the fire doors also have to be self closing? We have a couple of doors which are never fully shut, due to the way we use the house. As an aside, our loft space is an open 14' x 20' between purloins and end-walls, but having an open plan lounge & staircase prevented any conversion to a 3rd floor due to lack of fire exit corridor. Not that I'm in anyway jealous of your new room... There used to be a requirement to fit fire doors with closers but it was realised that people just propped the doors open so this requirement was removed a few years ago. I always like to ensure all doors are shut before retiring to bed. I believe the Fire Service recommend this approach. Sorry. I hope you're still talking to me at the end of all this. What are purloins? Are they like purlins but made from stolen timber? Was enclosing the stairs not feasible then? Too unattractive? Big shed it is then! Mind you, you're Welsh, so shouldn't you be looking at digging out the basement? Edited December 1, 2017 by teaky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted December 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 Purloins, a decent cut from a Pur..... The enclosed staircase would encroach into the lounge due to the off-set front door. And the house is stood on a raft of concrete, so no basement or coal ( tin) mine possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb900f Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Morning Teaky, Thankyou for the information given above. I haven't read the relevant documents as I have relied on both my builder (wife's cousin, who I do trust) and the BCI to ensure that everything is done correctly. I will have a read with regards to the fire door regs. I have fitted 150mm Kingspan between the rafters which as you say is a very messy job. I am also fitting 25mm of Kingspan in the room between the plywood walls and the plaster board. This was a suggestion by the BCI not a requirement. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 1, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) After only a few minutes of lifting aided once again by no. 1 son, the staircase is now up in the loft. I spent longer clearing up the mess hanging around from yesterday than we did on lifting the staircase. It is out of the way for the time being but will be fettled, the trimmer installed in the floor and the built-in wardrobes below reconfigured before the staircase is lowered back down into position. I realise this sounds like a lot of toing and froing but there's much more space to work on the staircase up in the loft than there is on the first floor. The biggest challenge is going to be where to store the contents of two built-in wardrobes, especially clothes which need to be accessible, whilst I reconfigure the spaces and box things in again. However, they are usable at the moment and I'm out of everyone's way, so I have time to think this through. Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky Typo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 2, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Motivation is a little low today for some reason. I know from experience that it is best not to do anything requiring precision. No problem. There are a few odds and ends to complete. Here's a photo of the other end wall to which I completed fitting the insulation the other day. All joints are sealed with aluminium tape to maintain the integrity of the VCL on what is the final layer before the plasterboard is fitted. I finished off the battens on the rafters. These are just scraps of timber I had lying around plus some of the old cross bracing ripped down to an appropriate thickness. Other than selecting treated timber it didn't seem important what I used since its only function is to prevent the insulation being pushed too far and closing the 50mm air space. On a non loft issue, I have also been fiddling about with the dishwasher which has been playing up for a few weeks now. I decided to give up last week and ordered a new one. I fixed one problem causing a leak only to have an unrelated component also start to leak and adding this to the squealing noise coming from a motor somewhere (I don't know where but it sounds like a dry bearing) I concluded that buying more spare parts might be risking throwing good money after bad on a machine that is more than a decade old. The new dishwasher is due to be delivered today so I have disconnected the old one and moved it out of the way. (Delivery in the middle of Wales v. South Africa - how inconsiderate!) Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky Re-adding photos. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted December 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2017 Our dishwasher squeals occasionally, but I just get told to shut up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 As you appear to have fitted the alternate tread "ladder" ( it is technically too steep to be a staircase ) please don't try fitting carpet to the treads. Many years ago I did my final inspection on a loft conversion and in between visits the owner did exactly that and found out the hard way about doing such a stupid thing. The owner was nursing a broken collar bone and sprained ankle from catching his foot on one of the pieces of carpet !!! I won't say any more on these types of access ladders other than please be careful in use and ideally face the treads when going up or down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 2, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2017 Noted bgman. Thanks. I haven't yet decided how to finish the stairs. Carpet is definitely not under consideration though. It will either be non-slip paint or varnish with clear non-slip tape applied. I will also be fitting a mopstick handrail on both sides. I'd welcome any advice or suggestions from you or anyone else regarding the most effective safety measures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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