Teaky's attic

[chris p bacon]

I'd welcome any advice or suggestions from you or anyone else regarding the most effective safety measures.

 

 

Crampons?

[grob1234]

Hello Rob, very pleased to have stumbled across this thread as usual some months late. Also interesting to see the process of the loft conversion, you have done a proper job, and you'll reap the rewards of this over time. So much better than a botch job, too much humidity, large temperature swings, and worse, falling through the floor and into the bedroom below!

 

Not long now til trains are running then.... 

[teaky]

Thanks Tom.  Christmas will no doubt now get in the way to some extent but it should be possible to make steady progress.  I do sympathise with people who cannot afford to take the approach I have but I don't think I could bring myself to risk not doing it properly.  It took me a while to save up.  I hope the end result will be a net gain in terms of the value of our house, so I should get the money back in the long term.  Even if I am wrong, at least I should get some enjoyment from having a railway room and, I hope, somewhere to run some proper length east coast expresses, an interest I know we share.

[teaky]

Crampons?

Hmm, well that would definitely reduce the chances of slipping.  Perhaps I should buy a pair of ice axes too and do away with the stairs altogether?  Just a vertical sheet of ply that could be replaced as required.

[teaky]

Front runner at the moment is varnishing the staircase and adding some of these to each tread.

 

I tend to go barefoot in summer and walk around in socks the rest of the year, so these seemed a better option than the alternatives which seem to be based on sand or similar and which I felt might clog up with fluff.  I've no idea though since I have zero experience of any of these products beyond anti-slip stair treads outdoors in public places and in a few offices.

[Harlequin]

Front runner at the moment is varnishing the staircase and adding some of these to each tread.

 

I tend to go barefoot in summer and walk around in socks the rest of the year, so these seemed a better option than the alternatives which seem to be based on sand or similar and which I felt might clog up with fluff.  I've no idea though since I have zero experience of any of these products beyond anti-slip stair treads outdoors in public places and in a few offices.

It looks like those would take a long time to stick on neatly! How about something that would do a whole tread at one go, maybe based on rubber or granulated rubber?

 

I searched for "anti slip treads for stairs" and some good possibilities turn up, such as these:

https://www.selfadhesive.co.uk/3m-general-purpose-safety-walk-trade-anti-slip-cleats.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAu4nRBRBKEiwANms5Wz4ixJUIiailn55CvSD9ztrDIVC7G25TpsBNjp4oowzk_NgrforoSBoCifgQAvD_BwE

http://www.seton.co.uk/anti-slip-rubber-stair-treads-self-adhesive.html#JUP182 GRY

Edited December 3, 2017 by Harlequin

[Stubby47]

Varnish, with a strip of sand across the top front edge, possibly.

[teaky]

It looks like those would take a long time to stick on neatly! How about something that would do a whole tread at one go, maybe based on rubber or granulated rubber?

 

I searched for "anti slip treads for stairs" and some good possibilities turn up, such as these:

https://www.selfadhesive.co.uk/3m-general-purpose-safety-walk-trade-anti-slip-cleats.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAu4nRBRBKEiwANms5Wz4ixJUIiailn55CvSD9ztrDIVC7G25TpsBNjp4oowzk_NgrforoSBoCifgQAvD_BwE

http://www.seton.co.uk/anti-slip-rubber-stair-treads-self-adhesive.html#JUP182 GRY

Thanks Phil.  I have already dismissed the kind of products those links go to in favour of the ones I have in mind at the moment for a number of reasons:

  i  they are dark coloured rather than clear

 ii  the first ones seem too coarse (though increased coarseness may be increased grip)

iii  I'd need to cut them down because the treads are half size alternate ones and less than 300mm wide.

 

You're correct about them taking time to apply but there are only 12 steps and I was thinking two per step with a simple template for positioning and a wallpaper seam roller to ensure adhesion.

[teaky]

Varnish, with a strip of sand across the top front edge, possibly.

Thanks.  This did briefly cross my mind Stu.  When searching the web I found a number of people appear to have stirred sand into paint to create their own anti-slip paint.  However, it seemed like a recipe for creating a real mess (certainly in my hands).  I reckon I'd be tempted to try the sand (either in the paint or sprinkled on when wet) if this was an outdoor application.  It is definitely the most economical approach and easily reapplied/repaired.

[Stubby47]

Mask an area on each tread, apply pva, then sprinkle on the sand. When dry, remove the mask and varnish the lot.

 

A bit like ballasting without the track...

[chris p bacon]

Mask an area on each tread, apply pva, then sprinkle on the sand. When dry, remove the mask and varnish the lot.

 

A bit like ballasting without the track...

 

How do you weather it though ? There's already a thread about using airbrushes in the house and upsetting the "significant other"

[teaky]

Mask an area on each tread, apply pva, then sprinkle on the sand. When dry, remove the mask and varnish the lot.

 

A bit like ballasting without the track...

 

I still fear I would make a mess of it and putting it right would entail more work than just peeling off a sticky anti-slip strip and starting again.

 

I feel I have found the solution to be honest.  I'm just waiting to see if anyone tells me these strips don't work and/or don't stay stuck down for long enough.

[teaky]

Apart from four panels, which are cut but yet to be glued and screwed pending completion of some cabling, the floor is now done.  I haven't taken a photo yet but will do so once the room reappears from behind the stacks of insulation waiting to be cut and pushed in between the rafters.

[teaky]

Mess?  What mess?

 

 

Right then.  Things went quiet over Christmas and New Year due both to the festivities and a shortage of motivation on my part.  However, the 'get up and go' returned a few days ago and I have been cutting and thumping.

 

Apologies in advance for any repetition of information posted earlier in this thread.

 

 

Floor - Tongue and grooved, moisture resistant chipboard panels.  Even though the joists are at 400mm centres the panels are 22mm thick rather than 18mm due to fire regulations.  Glued and screwed.

 

 

Insulation - Simple but tedious and very dusty - goggles and mask required.

 

100mm PIR insulation cut to size to be a tight push fit between the rafters (flat handed punch if I'm honest - it's not coming out of there in a hurry).  I nailed some simple battens to each side of the rafters to prevent the insulation being pushed too far in and thereby compromising the required 50mm air gap between insulation and felt.  I still need to complete the trimming of the window openings which I will do tomorrow.

 

I have ordered the next batch of insulation which will be a layer of 50mm PIR across the underside of the rafters.  A much simpler task, with much less cutting and significantly less mess.

 

I have also started packing the sides of the steel beams with insulation for which I am using off cuts to minimise waste.  This is a bit slow and creates yet more dust as each piece is cut and packed into place but I don't like throwing the off cuts away, not just because I'm stingy but for environmental reasons too.

 

The sections of the side walls above the steel beams will eventually be filled with insulation too.

 

Plan for tomorrow: use up remaining off cuts to pack more of the steel beams, finish trimming window openings then tidy and sweep.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky
Re-adding photos.

[chris p bacon]

I was wondering whether you'd retreated to an armchair.

 

Insulation dust. . . .lovely. . . .I use a respirator with 2 filters as they can block quickly with that stuff.  As it happens I'm using it at present sweeping up 100+ years of crud on a ceiling before fitting Supalux/fire board,  just as unpleasant.

[teaky]

No armchairs were involved.  Sometimes the motivation isn't there and since this is supposed to be a fun hobby it isn't worth forcing progress because it always seems to lead to errors.  Anyway, that's not a problem now and I'll be up aloft again later this morning.

 

I bought a full face mask and filter last time I installed insulation but on this job I found it was steaming up too frequently so I've been using a 3M Aura mask with small square filter.  I'm sure there are better products but these seem to fit my face shape well and it is easy to get a decent seal.

 

I hoping today will see the back of the messiest part of the whole job and, for once, I'm looking forward to (gently) sweeping up and getting all the dust into a sack and then into the dustbin.  There will be more dust with the next layer of insulation and with the plasterboard but nothing on the same scale.

 

At least I know what's in my dust, unlike you.  You have my sympathy Dave.

[teaky]

- Use up remaining off cuts to pack more of the steel beams.   Done.

- Finish trimming window openings.   Done.

- Tidy and sweep.   Done.  (Two large bags!)

- Building Control inspection.   - Requested.

- Beer.   Poured.

[teaky]

Assorted odds and ends done and swept again.  I managed to collect about another litre of dust!  I then vacuumed and got a little more.  It has obviously been worth it though since I can now go into the loft and work on something without a face mask and not sneeze at all.

 

The next batch of insulation won't be here until mid-week but I have a few small jobs to complete in the meantime so it won't cause any delay.

 

Here's a photo of the current state of play.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky
Re-adding photos.

[Worsdell forever]

I'm sure you've mentioned it before but what's the headroom like? 

[teaky]

About 2.3m in the centre, Paul.

 

If you look at the end wall in the photo above, there's a taped joint at the same level as the vent.  Most people would be able to stand up anywhere in that area.  In fact, thinking about it, if the average height is 1.7m then there's even more standing room.

 

I'm a little taller than average but when planning the room I felt that as long as there's somewhere I could stand up to occasionally stretch then I'd be OK.  Based on the time I've spent working up there so far, it seems OK.  I could probably live with it as a bedroom too but a full-width dormer conversion across the back half of the roof would be the way to go for a really spacious room(s).

 

I have yet to fit a flat centre section to the ceiling but in terms of headroom this is largely academic since it will still be over 2m and I don't have any basketball player friends.

 

There used to be a minimum height of, I think, 1.8m for loft conversions but the regulations were relaxed a little a few years back.  I don't know the details because I only tend to absorb what is relevant to me.  There is probably something in the Approved Documents.

 

FYI  The side (eaves) walls will only be around 400mm high when finished so I won't be able to have a layout the full width of the room.  I have yet to decide what layout height to go for.  This is something I have been pondering for some time and I'm still throwing ideas around.  It shouldn't be a major constraint since the room is 5m wide at floor level.

[73c]

I'd say about worktop height 900mm much lower means constant bending, to high you won't reach the back of the layout easily 

[Andrew P]

It's all looking rather neat and tidy Rob, I'm sure it won't stay that way for to long, hahha.

 

Very nice mate.

[teaky]

I'm just trying to make the right impression for the inspection tomorrow. 

 

Then as soon as the next batch of insulation arrives I'll be making a mess again. 

 

Nice to see you back posting Andy.  Take care.

[teaky]

Inspection complete.  The BCI had a good look around and seemed happy with what he saw and the answers I gave to his questions.  Next inspection is now on completion

 

At the front of the house there is a small gable which provides an area with sufficient headroom to step into, so there is useful storage in this gable area as well as in the eaves behind the front steel beam to which the gable facilitates access.  So today I'll be making a door/hatch to access this area.

 

Mug of tea required first though.

[teaky]

Here we go again!

 

 

This is the final batch of 50mm insulation to go across the face of the rafters and inter-rafter insulation.  Out of shot there are a couple of 100mm sheets for the central flat section of the ceiling, the angled sections on top of the steel beams and to finish off the sides of the steel beams.

 

 

A useful tip - I could not get the complete 2.4 x 1.2m sheets of insulation from outside and up into the loft without cutting them.  The 100mm sheets I measured and cut on the driveway allowing a margin for error but rather than do this for all the 50mm sheets too I did something I have done previously on other projects.  Taking a trimming knife I cut across the rear face at roughly half way and then folded the sheets in half.  The trimming knife only goes about half way into the sheet so it breaks the rest of the way but does not damage the aluminium facing.  Once up in the loft I opened the sheets out again and laid them flat, face down.  The sheets mesh together again almost perfectly and before using them I will re-seal the rear face with some aluminium tape and they will be almost as good as an uncut sheet.

Edited August 11, 2022 by teaky
Re-adding photos.