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Hattons Dave

Class A4 4-6-2 in O Gauge from Hatton's

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In those photos looks like the apex of the curve is somewhere near the draw hook. The model is a lot higher.

 

There was masses of discussion some time back to try and get it right and the model was improved.

 

Will have to get the files out on that bit!

 

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On 25/10/2019 at 09:32, Hilux5972 said:

Looks accurate to me apart from the missing beading at the top of the rear. 

87BC4F24-3894-4CDE-9649-BF0CCD4C307B.jpeg

D07F2A3F-E98A-485E-8211-B078688FCDCB.jpeg

Rear bottom steps look like they are finished straight not curved as above in the photo as well.

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Looking at the painted models just wondered where are the vertical cab hand rails and worthy of note the rain strip and just beyond should be blue not black

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Spock to Hattons 2day at NEC sadly the a4s won't have vertical hand rails talk about detail how can thay have missed that when asked if they will sort this all I got was to late and that's it lets see what there expert makes of that

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Wow that’s really bad. Something as obvious as a handrail should be there. 

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Like Jay, I too asked today at Warley about the missing handrail. I had hoped it was just missing from the prototypes, but sadly not.

 

This has really made me think twice about buying one of these now. :(

 

If they could supply the missing bits, I am sure I could fit them. But the question is, do I want to be doing this?

 

Cheers, Ade.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Adrian Stevenson said:

Like Jay, I too asked today at Warley about the missing handrail. I had hoped it was just missing from the prototypes, but sadly not.

 

This has really made me think twice about buying one of these now. :(

 

If they could supply the missing bits, I am sure I could fit them. But the question is, do I want to be doing this?

 

Cheers, Ade.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it depends on why you are buying the loco. If you really want that prototype and the only other option is building a kit, just fit the handrail. The loco will still be cheaper than the kit equivalent and you'd have to fit the handrail on that anyway.

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The a4s don't even come with the hand rail to fit just beggars belief and as Hattons said to late yet what I asked them where to find the bits to do a sit job on them thay simply said don't know what dos that say realy  I would have hoped for a more positive response not only that the paint jobs have problems but no point telling Hattons as thay realy don't seam to want to listen looks like thay have taken one person's view and just run with it

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Then there is the problem of matching heljans paint if we have to buy our own hand rails as that paint is nothing like railmatch colours so buy paint buy hand rails and hand rail knobs then drill and glue all these bits on with all this said one would think Hattons would comment or lower the price or put together a kit of parts for those who purchase them free gratis that would go halfway to make up for a sad mistake 

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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Maybe it depends on why you are buying the loco. If you really want that prototype and the only other option is building a kit, just fit the handrail. The loco will still be cheaper than the kit equivalent and you'd have to fit the handrail on that anyway.

Would'nt be a lot of good to someone who is not a modeller , a serious collector or a person who  simply does'nt want or is unable to correct a fault . Why should they have too anyway.

A serious collector would refuse to cause any damage/repair ,and at the same time destroying the items original/ mint condition as well.

Plus Hattons can then duck out of the guarantee as the item has then been altered.

Poor research and build quality all round on the A4, and the A1/3 , they simply should'nt they be up far sale in such condition . Ok its minor body details (Hattons should be supplying the missing parts e.g handrail knobs that match those fitted to the models, replacement pieces are unlikely to match the original fittings)  but now buyers are reporting valve gear failures as well, its simply not good enough.

It might be cheaper than a kit, but the asking price is still £750, not a small amount of money to great many people.

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Totally agree  stop sales sort problems then put them up for sale just cart get my head round way thay forgot such a basic and obvious thing like the hand rail and the valve gear ain't up to much how Hattons say that thay run one of the a3s for 17 hours is beyond me

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41 minutes ago, jay*bobble said:

Totally agree  stop sales sort problems then put them up for sale just cart get my head round way thay forgot such a basic and obvious thing like the hand rail and the valve gear ain't up to much how Hattons say that thay run one of the a3s for 17 hours is beyond me

Could you please use some punctuation in your posts. Very difficult to read when it is just one long sentence. 

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had an email this morning to say these are now expected early June.

Still undecided: I'd love one, but the toy valvegear and the missing handrail put me off.

At least they are now doing unnumbered ones so you can have what you want.

Are they doing all three types of tender, streamlined, streamlined bow ended and unstreamlined, does anyone know?

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Jeff,

you just beat me to it with the e-mail. As for Tenders they are doing all Three types  Streamlined, Unstreamlined and

Streamlined Non Corridor . As per Hattons website under Heljan O Gauge Locomotives Era's 4 & 5.

Regards,Derek

 

PS :- did say June 2020 in e-mail. Fingers crossed.

Edited by CUTLER2579
To add PS.

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5 hours ago, JeffP said:

At least they are now doing unnumbered ones so you can have what you want.

Are they doing all three types of tender, streamlined, streamlined bow ended and unstreamlined, does anyone know?

 

Hi Jeff,

Between the A3 and A4 there are four variations of tender being produced including all three you state. The full list is as follows:

  • Streamlined corridor (this is the 'bow ended' version)
  • Streamlined non-corridor
  • Un-streamlined corridor
  • Un-streamlined non-corridor

All of the available A3s and forthcoming A3s and A4s have the tender variation as part of their descriptions and we've provided some alternatives with the unnumbered locos to ensure that as many of the classes as possible can be recreated without too much work.

 

As per the email we sent this morning, we're now expecting the remaining A3s and A4s in June at the latest, but once I've got a more precise date I'll make sure this is passed on.

All the details on the specifics of tenders and numbering variations is available on our website Here.

Cheers

Dave

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On 12/08/2019 at 06:28, Norton Wood said:

 

Indeed, I know they are using the BR A4 body for this, but I hope they have an LNER version where the front oil pot cover which seat's below the chimney is not visible as all A4's pre-WW2 didn't have that extra pot. But I trust them to know that, we modellers just worry too much sometimes. 

I don’t know why nobody has mention this before they locked in their tooling? The only exception would be Bittern as preserved. Every single A4 with valances should not have this extra bit. All of their LNER A4 engines are wrong! (Of course the missing handrails for the cab and missing beadings on the tender)

Edited by Ribird
Missed a word

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18 hours ago, Ribird said:

I don’t know why nobody has mention this before they locked in their tooling? The only exception would be Bittern as preserved. Every single A4 with valances should not have this extra bit. All of their LNER A4 engines are wrong! (Of course the missing handrails for the cab and missing beadings on the tender)

 

Well I did mention it there...But no one paid any attention to it...I was going to highlight it at Warley, sadly the team was busy every time I went to speak to them.  I must say I'm quite shocked...I would have hoped Hattons would have seen this? Unless again this is meant to be the final painted sample? I've sadly lost interest in O gauge anyway. 

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First of all, let me say I have no connection to Hattons, have no interest in purchasing RTR models of the A3 or A4, but would suggest that they should be congratulated for developing two fine 7mm LNER Pacifics and bringing  the  to market for £750.

 

The amount of whinging and whining about this or that shape, this or that detail beggars belief!  These are ready to run models for layout running, not exhibition standard display models. L. H. Loveless, and others do those sort of models for 2 grand a throw. Don't want one of those, then you can  buy a DJH or Finney 7 kit of both for around £650. Then there's £150 or so for wheels and £100 for a decent motor/gearbox.  Oh, and then you have to build them, let's say 120 hours of work. Oh, then you have to paint and line them. Don't want to do either, then you have to pay for it to be done. I may be wrong but I would guess that most people capable  of building these kits to a least the standard of the Hatton's RTR models will be over 25 ( that's the demographic in 0 Gauge), so on the national minimum wage that's £8.21/hour, costing you another £985. So for going on 2 grand, you can buy a top end kit, the wheels and the motor and have it built to at least the standard of the Hatton's models (most likely better). Then you have to pay for a good pro to paint it so a few hundred quid more. Or you can can buy something RTR from the likes of Mr. Loveless for 2 grand plus.

 

Those of you who won't be  buying one now  because the  valve gear is toy like, or the cab handrail is missing, or you don't know where to source the wire and the knobs to fit the handrail, make me ill. Years ago before 4mm RTR was as good as it is now, modellers would scrape off the moulded handrails and fire irons and super detail them. Or buy a kit and build it themselves,  because they were modellers.  

 

So congratulations Hattons Dave for a cracking RTR A4 and A3 at cracking prices! 

 

So just to reiterate to  the whingers, for £750, you won't get these.

 

Finney 7 A4.

Oh and look,  I had to add the rivets around the casing joints at the front and the rivets on the lower doors because they weren't there. The  valve gear is authentic and is reversible on both models and the lubricator linkage works on the A4. But if you don't want toy like valve gear, you have to build it yourself.  Although to be fair to Hattons, their valve gear is better than is seen on many kit built models, so no excuses on this point.

20190121_211504.jpg.3d19425dbc0bfd8139a62cd4aca1ddb7.jpg

 

Or this.

 

Finney7 A3.

 

20180425_215612.jpg.2f77388d5240220fc6fe97488ba5fcc0.jpg

 

PS. I have no connection to Finney7. I'm just a satisfied customer of their excellent products.

 

Rant over.

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1 hour ago, PAD said:

Those of you who won't be  buying one now  because the  valve gear is toy like, or the cab handrail is missing, or you don't know where to source the wire and the knobs to fit the handrail, make me ill. Years ago before 4mm RTR was as good as it is now, modellers would scrape off the moulded handrails and fire irons and super detail them. Or buy a kit and build it themselves,  because they were modellers.  

 

Don't get me wrong, you are correct there, these are great models, just the three minor bits missing is overall really good for a first time RTR O gauge A4. And also agreed, it would be more work to make a kit than to just buy an RTR and modify it to suit the needs of the modeler.  Though, the handrails, yes easy to add on without a full repaint. On the other hand, the missing beading on the tenders and the added flap will need a full repaint to remove/add. You would think the LNER and BR body toolings would be separate, but just the valances are changed out below the footplate.

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42 minutes ago, Ribird said:

Don't get me wrong, you are correct there, these are great models, just the three minor bits missing is overall really good for a first time RTR O gauge A4. And also agreed, it would be more work to make a kit than to just buy an RTR and modify it to suit the needs of the modeler.  Though, the handrails, yes easy to add on without a full repaint. On the other hand, the missing beading on the tenders and the added flap will need a full repaint to remove/add. You would think the LNER and BR body toolings would be separate, but just the valances are changed out below the footplate.

 

Hi Ribird,

We could only have 1 bodyshell in the tooling to avoid a significant increase in cost for the final models so we have gone with the most common permutations which in this case are the BR/preserved examples.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Dave

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Hi Rbird,

It doesn't need a repaint. Ignore the flap issue it's nothing compared to the turn in on  the tender front which is a hang over from the A3, no doubt  standardised by Hattons to keep the cost down. Adding a length of beading, buying the nearest paint option and adding a bit of red or yellow or whatever  it needs to match the existing colour is neither here not there.  As to the comment made earlier about the impact on collectors, do they care?  Surely they collect items for what they are not what they should be.  The short falls in authenticity in Hornby Dublo, Basset Lowke or tin plate doesn't deter collectors.

 

If you want a value for money A3 or A4, then buy one. If you are a modeller then you can correct the errors if you wish. If you cannot correct the errors and they bother you so much, don't buy one. There are other RTR options but as I said before you have to pay a lot more for them. You get what you pay for - simple. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

We could only have 1 bodyshell in the tooling to avoid a significant increase in cost for the final models so we have gone with the most common permutations which in this case are the BR/preserved examples.

Very understandable! One benefit of having this tooling, great for changing out parts and less chance of having to replace the whole body if the valances get damaged. 

23 minutes ago, PAD said:

It doesn't need a repaint. Ignore the flap issue it's nothing compared to the turn in on  the tender front which is a hang over from the A3, no doubt  standardised by Hattons to keep the cost down. Adding a length of beading, buying the nearest paint option and adding a bit of red or yellow or whatever  it needs to match the existing colour is neither here not there.  As to the comment made earlier about the impact on collectors, do they care?  Surely they collect items for what they are not what they should be.  The short falls in authenticity in Hornby Dublo, Basset Lowke or tin plate doesn't deter collectors.

 

If you want a value for money A3 or A4, then buy one. If you are a modeller then you can correct the errors if you wish. If you cannot correct the errors and they bother you so much, don't buy one. There are other RTR options but as I said before you have to pay a lot more for them. You get what you pay for - simple. 

I'm sorry, did not mean it to be so negative. The current tooling is great all around with the changes suggested by others earlier in this thread (body shape). I say that was a great marketing strategy or whatever you want to call it :P (unrelated, but releasing the OO Plasser 12t GPC Crane CAD files for people to look over, was a great idea!)  Back to the A4's, a value for sure with some touch ups and little work and it will be great.

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Morning all,

 

I've gone ahead and removed the last few posts as we were drifting off-topic and arguing.

If you have any differences to sort out then please do so in a more appropriate area or privately.

 

Cheers,


Dave

 

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