RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted February 19, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) This thread is just about the new app - but if anybody likes it or not is of course personal preference. To say a word about the Z21 as such, no matter which app version is running: It is a perfect system, the very flexible programming allows you to have your function keys where you want them, you can use symbols, so no more headscratching which button was the shunting mode. Was it F3 or F6??? Also the possibility to copy the whole library with one shot to other devices is very helpful - just think about a railway show. Your helpers need only a smartphone, no matter if apple or android, and they have their own handheld control which is automatically loaded with the data which is centrally maintained. (Of course one has to do that. but only once) Programming is even possible while a loco is running. You can for instance change your sound volume while driving. So for me it is the vehicle library which makes the main advantage of this system. And if there are problems with the graphics of the layout - I don't care as I use a mimic board. Much more easier to handle, no need to expand it, it is as big as I built it.... Edited February 19, 2018 by Vecchio 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 What are your questions? I am certain that the collected knowledge here will be able to answer them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 What are your questions? I am certain that the collected knowledge here will be able to answer them This thread is about the Z21 app so I wouldn't want to spoil it with questions not related to the app. I will however ask two quick questions if I may & I won't bother the thread any further with questions after that. I have an NCE Power Pro wireless system on my layout. (1) If I got a Z21 for my workbench is there any way I could get the NCE system to work through the Z21 sniffer port or in any other way if I wanted to move the Z21 to my layout ? I have been told by someone else that I can't. (2) Can the Z21 work with my mainly NCE accessory decoders like switch it's, switch 8's + various circuit breakers etc ? Thanks everyone. Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hi Tony, Here's a link to the Z21 architecture structure - it's a PDF on their web site. It may or may not answer your questions exactly but just a starting point and to show all connections. AAH may be a useful source of enquiry if you haven't tried them a,ready. http://www.z21.eu/content/download/1546/15908/file/Z21_black_EN.pdf Cheers ... Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hi Tony, The Z21 works fine with NCE Switch 8's, etc. BUT there are a couple of things to note. 1) Due to ambiguity in the standard around accessory addresses you will find that addresses 0-4 on the Z21 don't do anything. To get the addresses 1-8 on the Switch 8 working, you have to sedn data to addresses 5-12 (increment the NCE address by 4 on the Z21) 2) Turn off Railcom on the Z21 as some US products don't like it. 3) I found that my Switch 8's didn't fully switch on (boot) until I had sent a command to any other thing on the DCC bus. So after a complete power down, you need to place a loco on the tracks, send it a command (lights on for example), and then the Switch 8's will finish there power up sequence and work fine. This drove me crazy when it first happened as the Switch 8's appeared to work or not randomly, until I figured out what was going on. Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 You can correct the 0-4 issue now using the Z21 configuration app on the PC, all you need to do us check a box to overcome this issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hi Tony, Here's a link to the Z21 architecture structure - it's a PDF on their web site. It may or may not answer your questions exactly but just a starting point and to show all connections. AAH may be a useful source of enquiry if you haven't tried them a,ready. http://www.z21.eu/content/download/1546/15908/file/Z21_black_EN.pdf Cheers ... Alan Thanks Alan I've seen that one. I asked AAH but the answers I got back were kind of vague. Hi Tony, The Z21 works fine with NCE Switch 8's, etc. BUT there are a couple of things to note. 1) Due to ambiguity in the standard around accessory addresses you will find that addresses 0-4 on the Z21 don't do anything. To get the addresses 1-8 on the Switch 8 working, you have to sedn data to addresses 5-12 (increment the NCE address by 4 on the Z21) 2) Turn off Railcom on the Z21 as some US products don't like it. 3) I found that my Switch 8's didn't fully switch on (boot) until I had sent a command to any other thing on the DCC bus. So after a complete power down, you need to place a loco on the tracks, send it a command (lights on for example), and then the Switch 8's will finish there power up sequence and work fine. This drove me crazy when it first happened as the Switch 8's appeared to work or not randomly, until I figured out what was going on. Regards, John P Thanks John. I'd heard about the 4 difference but up to now I couldn't get an answer as to whether the Z21 would actually work with NCE items. Do I understand so that I can use the existing accessory decoder numbers taking the 4 difference into account. I also understand that in the latest app there is a switch box to fix the 4 difference. Do you use circuit breakers in your system ? You can correct the 0-4 issue now using the Z21 configuration app on the PC, all you need to do us check a box to overcome this issue Thanks for that. I saw that fix in a YouTube video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarsAreAlight Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The layout editor is actually quite good once you get used to it imo, and based on the new named page "tab" feature, I've redone my two point motor equipped boards into one "layout" file so that my full loco roster can be available to run on both. Although I had to redo one from scratch because there isn't a transfer between layouts function (slightly annoyingly), this didn't actually take long. And from now on I will just take care to continue the happy accident of not having any accessory decoders with the same address on different layouts. See below for what you can end up with (as screenshot from an iPad Pro). Pretty happy with this given I've only had the new app about a week and haven't really had time to play with it properly... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The layout editor is actually quite good once you get used to it imo, and based on the new named page "tab" feature, I've redone my two point motor equipped boards into one "layout" file so that my full loco roster can be available to run on both. Although I had to redo one from scratch because there isn't a transfer between layouts function (slightly annoyingly), this didn't actually take long. And from now on I will just take care to continue the happy accident of not having any accessory decoders with the same address on different layouts. See below for what you can end up with (as screenshot from an iPad Pro). Pretty happy with this given I've only had the new app about a week and haven't really had time to play with it properly... Z21 screenshot.png Do you find it difficult to change the points on screen as they seem very small or do you use a stylus ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 A thought has just occurred to me (unusual I know ) that one of the new abilities in the updated app will cause an issue and that is the expected internet connectivity the app has to use the online loco database. Not an issue presently for most UK modellers as they wont use Roco locos (though I do) but if the library expands then it will become a challenge. This is caused by the Roco preference of using their own private network defaulting to 192.168.0.x utilising their supplied router. It is a reasonably simple job to change to use your home network but because the system doesn't use DHCP using static addresses this may cause issues for most people and then there is the statement you get when you change from their default 192.168.0.111 address that you have invalidated support will scare most people and they will run isolated from the Internet. Less of an issue with people using phones as they can access using 3/4g but most tablets don't have a SIM card. Does this mean that they are going to issue a Z21 update that will make the Z21 more network friendly? Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 The layout editor is actually quite good once you get used to it imo, and based on the new named page "tab" feature, I've redone my two point motor equipped boards into one "layout" file so that my full loco roster can be available to run on both. Although I had to redo one from scratch because there isn't a transfer between layouts function (slightly annoyingly), this didn't actually take long. And from now on I will just take care to continue the happy accident of not having any accessory decoders with the same address on different layouts. See below for what you can end up with (as screenshot from an iPad Pro). Pretty happy with this given I've only had the new app about a week and haven't really had time to play with it properly... Z21 screenshot.png I am very impressed. I have been having all sorts of problems trying to produce any sort of decent looking layout using the editor. I can't even get decent looking cross-overs. Any chance you could re-publish your picture from the layout editor itself showing the grid lines to give an idea of how you managed it. Also any tips on using the layout editor would be much appreciated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 It has taken a bit of playing to get my current project onto a single diagram and make it useable on screen. The challenge is still that I cannot create routes with names that can be read - I can't even read the point numbers, though that is possibly less important. What will be annoying is that because the screen is so reduced now I won't be able to see the feedback detail with loco number and direction when I get the Railcom monitors setup These screenshots are from the iPad, the phone will only be useful as a throttle and I will use the iPad full screen for point control. Maybe I need to go to spec savers again! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 It is a rather old iPad 3 with a cracked screen (but that doesn't show on the screen capture It runs it without any issues, and you could pick up one for £100 or so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Had an email from Roco tonight saying that they are issuing an update to the new app within a few weeks which will address some of the usability issues I raised with them - they don’t say which, but heartening that they are listening 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) After spending more time over the weekend I have finally got to grips with the layout editor :-) After originally hating it, I'm now happy with it. I bought myself a stylus (£7.99 from Amazon) and using it and a full-size iPad makes all the difference. The trick of holding a point with the stylus and rotating it using a finger from my other hand also makes a huge difference in rotating points Multiple tabs for the layout is a really useful feature, though there is a bug (that I have reported) which can cause tabs to duplicate. Hopefully the bug will be fixed in the next release. Edited February 27, 2018 by NickC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Hi, which stylus did you buy there seem to be hundreds? B&D Universal Capacitive Stylus Pen 2-in-1 Styli Touch Screen Pen with 20Pcs Replacement Rubber Tips for Apple iPad,iPhone,iPod,Tablet,Galaxy, LG&HTC (Black, 5.5-inch) Seems to work fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezzy Oppo Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 If anyone is after a Z21 complete set-up, I have one surplus to requirements, used once to prove a loco. Just sat in its box so can be reasonable to an RMWebber! PM if interested or questions. (Apropos AY) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
portsladepete Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Hi, I exported my old layout,then imported it into the new app. All went well,which surprised me,not because of the z21,rather my abilities. This was all on the same ipad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I seem to be making progress with the new app, and buying a pen stylus thingy helped no end. I have put my layout into the Control station which was an interesting activity? I am not looking forward to re-inputting about 60 Locos as I can see no way of transferring them from the old app. I have bought the Wife a brand new whizzy bells and whistles IPad, I suppose I should tell her some day soon. In the mean time I will probably use it for the train set. cheers Geoff Surely all you need to do is export from the old app and you will get everything in the new app? You shouldn’t need to recreate the stuff in the new app - have you tried exporting from the old app to the new app? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 You can export from the old app to the new app by using the export by email option and just emailing it to yourself. You then open the email attachment and chose thee option to import into the new app. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 Yup, tried all that to no avail. Will revisit later when less peed off. I did that but on importing the roster into the new app it jumbled up the order of locomotives Darius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Yup, tried all that to no avail. Will revisit later when less peed off. Make sure you have downloaded the latest version of the old app. They added a fix for export very recently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Anyone finding that the new app crashes when starting on the iPad? I have an old iPad 2 and it crashes 3 time out of 4, and it has started doing it on the IPad 3 now as well, not quite as often but crashing all the same. There was also strange occurrence today where the Z21 reset to defaults when I have been connected feedbacks in. I am using the new DR5088RC as they give the Railcom feedback which is useful in iTrain since it shows the actual loco number in the block rather than just that the block is occupied - and I get full POM, reading and writing all CVs at will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philately Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Hope this isn't teaching Granny to suck eggs, but is the operating system of the iPad as up to date as possible? It may be that the new app doesn't like an old version of iOS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 That occurred to me also but they stopped updating the 32bit IOS platform that these iPads use a couple of years ago it is annoying that sometimes they work perfectly, since I made this post neither have crashed, but for the past few days crashing all the time, I have sent a ticket into Roco and will wait and see if the new version due in the next couple of weeks cures the problems Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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