Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[TomScrut]

Just now, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Interesting. I wonder if any standard decoder can control/operate the cab lights. 

 

I don't think any standard ones have more than 6 functions?

 

The 6 outputs are (at each end)

 

Marker lights

Tail lights

Head lights

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

2 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I don't think any standard ones have more than 6 functions?

 

The 6 outputs are (at each end)

 

Marker lights

Tail lights

Head lights

 

I was just thinking the same. 

 

I know that Bachmann, Dapol and Hattons has been mentioned previously that produce 6 function DCC Decoders but like you I don't think their is a decoder with more than 6 functions. In that case how on earth if 6 function decoders won't operate the cab lights can they be operated. 

[gary_lner]

15 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

I was just thinking the same. 

 

I know that Bachmann, Dapol and Hattons has been mentioned previously that produce 6 function DCC Decoders but like you I don't think their is a decoder with more than 6 functions. In that case how on earth if 6 function decoders won't operate the cab lights can they be operated. 

From the video on YouTube apparently the ESU Loksound version 5 has 10 functions.

 

The 4 function chip can do the following going by the instructions

4 function digital control functions:Function 0/Light button - Headlights (Day/Night) & Marker lightsFunction 1 - Tail lights frontFunction 2 - Tail lights rear

 

And the 6 function digital control functions:

Function 0/Light button - Marker lights Function 1 - Tail lights front Function 2 - Tail lights rear Function 3 - Headlights front Function 4 - Headlights rear.

 

I just noticed aswell they say the model will work best with a Hattons DCR-21Pin-DirectV2 decoder. All factory fitted Digital models are equipped with this decoder.

 

And after digging around the website this is a 6 function dcc decoder. 

So if you want working cab lights it looks like the only way to get them is to get a sound fitted class 66.

 

Hope that information helps

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

5 minutes ago, gary_lner said:

From the video on YouTube apparently the ESU Loksound version 5 has 10 functions.

 

The 4 function chip can do the following going by the instructions

4 function digital control functions:Function 0/Light button - Headlights (Day/Night) & Marker lightsFunction 1 - Tail lights frontFunction 2 - Tail lights rear

 

And the 6 function digital control functions:

Function 0/Light button - Marker lights Function 1 - Tail lights front Function 2 - Tail lights rear Function 3 - Headlights front Function 4 - Headlights rear.

 

I just noticed aswell they say the model will work best with a Hattons DCR-21Pin-DirectV2 decoder. All factory fitted Digital models are equipped with this decoder.

 

And after digging around the website this is a 6 function dcc decoder. 

So if you want working cab lights it looks like the only way to get them is to get a sound fitted class 66.

 

Hope that information helps

 

That's brilliant. Thank you very much for finding this out and posting. 

 

I have to say it's a bit disappointing that customers who either don't want or can't afford sound fitted models can't operate the cab lights. That was one feature I was looking forward to having on the new 66, considering that some of my old and original Bachmann 66s don't have cab lighting. 

 

Having said that though their is significantly more detail on the Hattons 66s and several lighting features that can be operated by the standard 6 function decoders. 

 

So are we thinking that Hattons are fitting their own 6 function decoders to the DCC Fitted 66s, thus we will be able to control most lighting functions from their own decoder? At least that way it would save me buying Bachmann decoders and attempting to remove and refit the body. 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[Pete the Elaner]

13 minutes ago, gary_lner said:

 

So if you want working cab lights it looks like the only way to get them is to get a sound fitted class 66.

 

 

I was about to reply with that.

Up until now, what model needs more than the standard 4 functions? The demand for more is not there yet, so why bother doing extra engineering to add functions which are never going to be used?

It was only a matter of time before something was going to use more functions. I think the Bachmann 90 may  already do (it needs a special decoder for the pan servo, but it may also have more then 4 functions). Now the Hattons 66 needs more. More models will follow.

Now the demand is there for more functions, expect to see more decoders which support them.

[gary_lner]

8 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

That's brilliant. Thank you very much for finding this out and posting. 

 

I have to say it's a bit disappointing that customers who either don't want or can't afford sound fitted models can't operate the cab lights. That was one feature I was looking forward to having on the new 66, considering that some of my old and original Bachmann 66s don't have cab lighting. 

 

Having said that though their is significantly more detail on the Hattons 66s and several lighting features that can be operated by the standard 6 function decoders. 

 

So are we thinking that Hattons are fitting their own 6 function decoders to the DCC Fitted 66s, thus we will be able to control most lighting functions from their own decoder? At least that way it would save me buying Bachmann decoders and attempting to remove and refit the body. 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

No worries I should have put the whole piece of text in about the hattons dcc decoder. On the intructions it says that factory fitted dcc models will be fitted with the Hattons DCR-21Pin-DirectV2 decoder.

 

And i think the gamble was probably what do people want more on in terms of lighting functions. I think the day and night mode and reds at both ends is a clear winner as the cab lights would only be on every now and then.

 

And as Pete has just said I'm sure another advance in Dcc decoders will happen soon enough and more functions without sound will be available. And the hattons decoder can be upgraded. Maybe it's something hattons them selves could look into.

[TomScrut]

Whilst the one I have on order is a sound one, I find being able to switch lights off a better thing than cab lighting TBH. Cab lights are only on at a standstill or in rare occasions at the non driver end when moving I think? Switching off one end lighting is whenever there is a train attached.

 

Although I do hope they do it like Bachmann did on the 90 where you have directional lights which you can then turn an end off, rather than having it where you manually turn lights on and off. I programmed my 68 to have f key end switches with directional lamps, directional halos and also parking lamps and it worked well IMO so I'd probably have to do some reprogramming on the 66 if it comes in different to this.

[TomScrut]

As far as DCC decoders with more than 6 outputs are concerned, would be interesting to know how one of these would be positioned price wise. Say if ESU did it (as I am most familiar with these as I run Lokpilot V4s and their Loksound V5 seems to be the go to sound decoder for most people), and sat it at £60, pretty much smack bang in the middle of the 6 function (4 powered 2 logic) Lokpilot V4 and the 10 function (all powered) Loksound V5. I think I'd be spending the extra £30.

 

On the other hand if ESU did a Lokpilot V5 with most of the functionality of the Loksound V5 minus sound for not a great deal more than the current V4 they'd do very well I think.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

2 hours ago, gary_lner said:

No worries I should have put the whole piece of text in about the hattons dcc decoder. On the intructions it says that factory fitted dcc models will be fitted with the Hattons DCR-21Pin-DirectV2 decoder.

 

And i think the gamble was probably what do people want more on in terms of lighting functions. I think the day and night mode and reds at both ends is a clear winner as the cab lights would only be on every now and then.

 

And as Pete has just said I'm sure another advance in Dcc decoders will happen soon enough and more functions without sound will be available. And the hattons decoder can be upgraded. Maybe it's something hattons them selves could look into.

 

Thanks for the info. 

 

Yes, I completely agree if sacrifices have to be made with regards to the lighting and the amount of options their are it is going to be difficult to choose which ones to add and which ones not to, but I also agree that Hattons have made the right decision. Whilst I do like cab lighting, the day and night time lighting options are probably more useful and would spend longer in use as opposed to cab lights. 

 

I'm thinking I may quote Hattons Dave comment from yesterday on the thread and ask him if the Hattons decoders fitted to their 66s will allow for multiple locos to run together in a consist. If they will allow this then I may buy the DCC Fitted versions to save removing and refitting the body, plus it's two less decoders to fit which is good because I have several to fit. 

 

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

Whilst the one I have on order is a sound one, I find being able to switch lights off a better thing than cab lighting TBH. Cab lights are only on at a standstill or in rare occasions at the non driver end when moving I think? Switching off one end lighting is whenever there is a train attached.

 

Although I do hope they do it like Bachmann did on the 90 where you have directional lights which you can then turn an end off, rather than having it where you manually turn lights on and off. I programmed my 68 to have f key end switches with directional lamps, directional halos and also parking lamps and it worked well IMO so I'd probably have to do some reprogramming on the 66 if it comes in different to this.

 

I agree. I do like cab lighting on all of my locos but if it's not possible due to other lighting options then I'm not massively bothered because as you say the day and night time running options are likely to be used more than cab lights. 

 

I haven't got a Bachmann 90, it's interesting that you mention that either head or tail lights can be turned off. Is this done via the DCC Decoder and DCC Controller or via a switch underneath the loco? If it's the former that's excellent because I have noticed on photos and videos that on some occasions when locos are shunting in depots and yards that the directional lighting isn't always displayed for the direction that the loco is moving towards, but also on the end of the loco their may be head or tail lights displayed. So if you can have one end lit and the other not, that really is well thought out and well executed via the new decoder by Bachmann for the 90. 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

11 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

Afternoon all,

 

The second shipment of the highly anticipated Class 66 was due to be with us at the end of January 2020.

Due to a minor issue detected during the QC process, there will be a delay on the delivery of these models.

We are working on fixing this issue, and will provide an updated delivery date for all codes as soon as we have one available.

 

Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave, 

 

Thank you for the update regarding the delivery dates for the 66s. 

 

I wonder if you could help me please with a question I have regarding DCC Decoders and the Hattons 66s?

 

A fellow forum member has informed me that you are fitting Hattons DCR-21Pin-DirectV2 decoders to each of the factory DCC Fitted Class 66s. Please can you tell me if these decoders will allow two or more of the Hattons 66s to run together in multiple/in a consist? 

 

I ask because I may buy two or more 66s and on some occasions I would like to run them together. 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Hi Dave, 

 

Thank you for the update regarding the delivery dates for the 66s. 

 

I wonder if you could help me please with a question I have regarding DCC Decoders and the Hattons 66s?

 

A fellow forum member has informed me that you are fitting Hattons DCR-21Pin-DirectV2 decoders to each of the factory DCC Fitted Class 66s. Please can you tell me if these decoders will allow two or more of the Hattons 66s to run together in multiple/in a consist? 

 

I ask because I may buy two or more 66s and on some occasions I would like to run them together. 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

 

I'm sure I read the manual for their decoder when the one I had on order was DCC fitted and I think it does have consist in CV19. The reason I decided I didn't want it factory DCC (unless sound) was because I wasn't 100% certain it did POM and it's a PITA for me if not as I don't have a programming track. I ended up going for sound as I want to see what it's like.

[No Decorum]

Dapol’s Imperium 3 is an eight-function decoder. Whether it works the cab lights on a Hatton’s 66 I have no idea. Hatton’s has them in stock – perhaps Hatton’s Dave might try one for general information?

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I'm sure I read the manual for their decoder when the one I had on order was DCC fitted and I think it does have consist in CV19. The reason I decided I didn't want it factory DCC (unless sound) was because I wasn't 100% certain it did POM and it's a PITA for me if not as I don't have a programming track. I ended up going for sound as I want to see what it's like.

 

That's really interesting, thank you for letting me know. I suspect that CV19 that you mention is the speed matching option so that the locos run completely 'in sink' with each other. I'm thinking though that surely Hattons will have thought about running more than one 66 together in multiple and thus their own brand of decoder should have no issues. 

 

Hopefully Dave can confirm that their decoder is suitable for this. 

 

51 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Dapol’s Imperium 3 is an eight-function decoder. Whether it works the cab lights on a Hatton’s 66 I have no idea. Hatton’s has them in stock – perhaps Hatton’s Dave might try one for general information?

 

Thanks for letting us know. I haven't bought or used any of the Dapol Imperium 3 decoders as of yet. 

 

As you say it would be interesting to see if Dave could confirm if these decoders would allow the cab lights to function for those not buying a sound fitted 66. 

[Hilux5972]

Can someone explain POM and PITA please?

[john new]

PITA = Pain in the a*** (Sit upon)

 

As for POM - I also have no idea as to meaning, was also confused by that one.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

11 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Can someone explain POM and PITA please?

 

5 minutes ago, john new said:

PITA = Pain in the a*** (Sit upon)

 

As for POM - I also have no idea as to meaning, was also confused by that one.

 

POM is Programme on Main I think. Or can also be referred to as POMT (Programme on main track). 

[TomScrut]

POM is Program On Main

 

Previous interpretation of PITA is correct

 

CV19 is where you program a loco with a new address for consist, so if you have 2 locos with CV19 set at "66" then they will both drive at the same time under the address "66". You need to manually set the locos up (using CV5 and CV6, or a custom speed table if the decoder supports it IIRC) to have the same speed profile (so both locos are doing the same speed for the same input from the controller)

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

38 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

POM is Program On Main

 

Previous interpretation of PITA is correct

 

CV19 is where you program a loco with a new address for consist, so if you have 2 locos with CV19 set at "66" then they will both drive at the same time under the address "66". You need to manually set the locos up (using CV5 and CV6, or a custom speed table if the decoder supports it IIRC) to have the same speed profile (so both locos are doing the same speed for the same input from the controller)

 

Thanks for explaining. I believe I have speed matched locos before in a consist but I'm not really sure how I did it and usually as a routine procedure I just make a consist for two or more locos to run, which doesn't include speed matching or CV19 but allows the control of two or more locos together. If running locos of the same make/brand I have usually found that they don't need speed matching, but sometimes you may notice a difference if say running a Bachmann 37 with a Bachmann 47 as the locos are different types, thus this type of consist/situation may be more appropriate/need speed matching. 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Thanks for explaining. I believe I have speed matched locos before in a consist but I'm not really sure how I did it and usually as a routine procedure I just make a consist for two or more locos to run, which doesn't include speed matching or CV19 but allows the control of two or more locos together. If running locos of the same make/brand I have usually found that they don't need speed matching, but sometimes you may notice a difference if say running a Bachmann 37 with a Bachmann 47 as the locos are different types, thus this type of consist/situation may be more appropriate/need speed matching. 

 

I have Bachmann 66s and Bachmann 37s and both have had to have been tweaked setting wise to run well together, even with same decoders. As in 37 with 37 and 66 with 66 not cross class. If you don't set the speeds up precisely then one loco will try and drive back into the others worm gear which at best will add wear, but I could near in both cases after running for a while increased nosie. May take several laps of they layout to apply the pressure.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

11 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I have Bachmann 66s and Bachmann 37s and both have had to have been tweaked setting wise to run well together, even with same decoders. As in 37 with 37 and 66 with 66 not cross class. If you don't set the speeds up precisely then one loco will try and drive back into the others worm gear which at best will add wear, but I could near in both cases after running for a while increased nosie. May take several laps of they layout to apply the pressure.

 

That's really interesting. Thanks for posting, I wasn't even aware of this. Is it a common thing that the worm gear will become more worn? Will this do any significant damage to locos? What brand of DCC Decoders do you use in your locos? I use the latest Bachmann 36-557 decoders which are 21 Pin, 1 Amp and 4 function in most of my locos and for my Dapol 68s I use the Dapol Imperium decoders which were factory fitted. I haven't ever heard of any loud or strange noises from locos when running them together in a consist. 

 

Also, I never thought that speed matching was an essential, must do procedure. I have never noticed in the manuals for the DCC Controllers that speed matching is a must otherwise it may damage loco/s in the consist. The manuals I have read just suggest that for perfect, fine tuned running where the locos are completely 'in sink' that speed matching is an option. 

[TomScrut]

At least that's what I think!

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

5 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

At least that's what I think!

 

I'm pleased you have mentioned it because it's something I will pay attention to in the future. 

 

If by not speed matching locos when in a consist, it does cause any extra wear or damage to the locos their should be warnings in the manuals for the controllers and decoders. 

[TomScrut]

It's because most locos have a worm gear in them. Oddly enough I have just bee arguing about this with a mate (he is a civil engineer I am a mechanical engineer) and I have got him round to my thinking

[atom3624]

If the speed differential exists but is minimal, loading a locomotive will always slow it a little, so if another is slightly faster, it could also be that the latter takes more of the load, the former runs close to 'running light' when double headed.

 

Al.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

10 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

It's because most locos have a worm gear in them. Oddly enough I have just bee arguing about this with a mate (he is a civil engineer I am a mechanical engineer) and I have got him round to my thinking

 

It's a good point and something I haven't thought of or noticed before. 

 

Maybe manufacturers of locos and decoders need to do some research and experimenting into this to see how much of an effect this has on models, their parts and potential lifespan.