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Driving wheel quartering - what's the secret?


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Can anyone please give some tips on quartering driving wheels in 4mm.  I know all about the 'leading' wheel' and I am aware that different railway companies in the past had their own ideas on which wheel led.  That is not what I am after. 

 

What I am after is how do you ensure accuracy in getting the 90 degree angle correct.  Is it just by eye? Or is there something a bit more scientific about it all?  

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Can anyone please give some tips on quartering driving wheels in 4mm.  I know all about the 'leading' wheel' and I am aware that different railway companies in the past had their own ideas on which wheel led.  That is not what I am after. 

 

What I am after is how do you ensure accuracy in getting the 90 degree angle correct.  Is it just by eye? Or is there something a bit more scientific about it all?  

 

It isn't necessarily the 90 degree that has to be correct - more that they are all at the same angle in my experience

 

Cheers,

Mick

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Quartering is easy, just do not make it seem over complex, by eye, by a jig, or school protractors mounted on a board, or use Romford Markit wheels.

 

A good flat su3race plate is needed, glass or stone ( granite composite chopping board from Poundland or Wilko)

Set one side to have the pin down, in line with axle centre, use protractor plate.

 

And the set the other side to 90 degree on one wheel, again in line with the axle and then set the others to match.

As long as the side rods were drilled using the frames as a jig, they should sit on and the lot turn smoothly.

 

NEVER try to cure binds by drilling out the coupling rod holes till it runs!!! But do expect the rods to be a loose fit in the crankpins to allow a little give and play, just enough, not tight or sloppy.

 

Also a fatal error is to assume all the crankpins are the same throw, makers slip up drilling the crankpin holes or use crude crankpins or bushes that are not concentric. Markit make a particularly accurate type in the deluxe version.

 

Stephen

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Romford / Markits of course have precise quartering built in and are therefore dead easy.

 

For some reason I've never had a problem doing Sharman and Ultrascale wheels by eye but never managed the same trick with Gibson's efforts, so I finally bought a GW Wheel Press, which solved all my problems instantly. But you do need to check the axle length before you mount the wheels or the back-to-back measurement may well be out; and in my experience once mounted they're best left firmly alone and never removed from the axles again.

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Thanks guys for all your help.  I have been using Gibson wheels and my eye.  I had assume it was something much more sophisticated.  I do have a old Hamblings wheel press to make sure they run truse, and I will have a look at Romfords and Markit wheelsets for the next exercise.  Many thanks again. 

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If you're doing it by eye the main thing is to ensure that the wheels are 90 degrees or slightly over especially on 4 or 6 coupled chassis. If you're using Gibson etc fit thye first pair into the chassis and fix to the axle with Loctite 601 or similar. For the second axle, fit one wheel with loctite. Locate it into the chassis and fit the second wheet. Using the coupling rods push the chassic forward and backwards adjusting the un-Loctited whee luntil it runs without any binding. When you're happy Loctite it in place and move onto the third axle and so on. This means that you are only ever adjusting one wheel at a time. If you've got more than one chassis to do forget all this and take the advice from other posters - buy the GW models quartering jig. It's worth every penny.

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  • 2 years later...
  • RMweb Gold
On 19/05/2018 at 18:32, RexAshton said:

When you're happy Loctite it in place

So how does this work then? I have added the fourth wheel and adjusted it to run without binding. How do I then apply the loctite? Is it just smeared over the axle end? Does the loctite have to be between the axle and wheel center?

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That is the problem, loctite has to be between the axle and the wheel, so you have to take the wheel back off to loctite it.  If the wheels have the same crank throw, if they are concemtric on the axles, if the holes in the rods are exactly the same spacing as the chassis and if the axle holes are exactly at right angles to the chassis sides both vertically and horizontally then if you get the quartering right it will run beautifully.  Mine don't.

Then again you can usually quarter by eye,  but iffy when the wheels don't have a number of spokes divisible by 4 its a bit of a black art.  

Guy Williams in his book on model locomotve construction suggested using Hamblings wheels fitting them using their quartering wheel press but filing off some of the splines and soldering the wheels on so they could be removed more easily.  He also sggested replaceable coupling rod bushes.   He was building locos able to pull 100 wagons on a layout working  a couple of days a week for years probably hundreds of hours between overhauls, but the principle is good, engineer your locos so they can be dismantled for repair.  If its all loctited up solid you might as well bin these scale chassis if they give trouble.    It's one reason I like Romford wheels, but don't like the crankpins, they are ugly even by 1938 Hornby Dublo standards, and those "scale chassis" with bits of bullhead rail as con rods, Yuck.

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20 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

That is the problem, loctite has to be between the axle and the wheel, so you have to take the wheel back off to loctite it.  If the wheels have the same crank throw, if they are concemtric on the axles, if the holes in the rods are exactly the same spacing as the chassis and if the axle holes are exactly at right angles to the chassis sides both vertically and horizontally then if you get the quartering right it will run beautifully.  Mine don't.

Then again you can usually quarter by eye,  but iffy when the wheels don't have a number of spokes divisible by 4 its a bit of a black art.  

Guy Williams in his book on model locomotve construction suggested using Hamblings wheels fitting them using their quartering wheel press but filing off some of the splines and soldering the wheels on so they could be removed more easily.  He also sggested replaceable coupling rod bushes.   He was building locos able to pull 100 wagons on a layout working  a couple of days a week for years probably hundreds of hours between overhauls, but the principle is good, engineer your locos so they can be dismantled for repair.  If its all loctited up solid you might as well bin these scale chassis if they give trouble.    It's one reason I like Romford wheels, but don't like the crankpins, they are ugly even by 1938 Hornby Dublo standards, and those "scale chassis" with bits of bullhead rail as con rods, Yuck.

thanks for the reply.

presumably if you use a relatively slow-setting epoxy, you can apply the adhesive, then have plenty of time to quater the wheels before the glue goes off.

is there a recomended epoxy to use?

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Another vote for the George Watt quartering jig.   One criticism is that the back to back spacing is set by the jig as well.    If you cut your axles long or short, the back to back will be incorrect.    If I remember correctly, there is an adjustment to allow the axles to protrude slightly, which I think is a common feature of the prototype.

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The method I use is to put a slot on the edge of the axle and then build the chassis and get the wheels quartered. Once I am happy I use a drill between the slot and the plastic hub of the wheel to open a corresponding slot on the wheel and then put a piece of brass wire in. Prevents the wheel from slipping on the axle and relatively easy to dismantle if necessary. Apologies for the images being upside down but the idea should be apparent.

 

Mark

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BDB251FF-4F6A-4594-8C82-F686B3E80EA4.jpeg

9391C7D3-497B-46C8-BFF2-C1464BE97203.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
On 17/05/2018 at 14:01, peterfgf said:

Discussed previously here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21304

 

Peterfgf

That link isn't working, I get an error message.

This how I do it. Firstly I make sure that the axle doesn't have a burr on either end, then:

 

001.JPG

Bend 0.5mm brass wire and attach to GW Models quartering jig. Some modellers prefer to use .020" plastic strip instead of the wire. You won't need either the wire or plastic if the wheel doesn't have a raised boss

P1000827.JPG

Fix the AGW wheel in place

P1000829.JPG

Present the chassis to the wheels and gently, using finger pressure, locate the axle in the holes. Add a 3" G-Clamp and tighten gently, using a B2B gauge to get the B2B correct.

What you will get is a wheelset that is correctly quartered and no wobble!

Edited by PenrithBeacon
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14 hours ago, ikcdab said:

thanks for the reply.

presumably if you use a relatively slow-setting epoxy, you can apply the adhesive, then have plenty of time to quater the wheels before the glue goes off.

is there a recomended epoxy to use?

 

I doubt it.  In fixing Gibson wheels to axles you're effectively dealing with an interference fit and I don't think that an epoxy would be suitable for that.  Instead, if you want an adhesive  you need a retainer, such as Loctite 603.  I believe that that's not meant to set instantaneously, but in my experience it certainly doesn't give enough time to carry out fine adjustments.  The other problem with epoxies is that they're invariably messy and I have no doubt that some of it would end up on parts where it shouldn't!

 

DT

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