BR Locomotive Green

[PenrithBeacon]

I had a very pleasant afternoon yesterday going through some of the archives at York and it’s now clear to me that BR steam and diesel locomotives were indeed painted in the same colour ie Dark Bronze Green.

 

I’ll post more later

[Karhedron]

Brunswick green is definitely bluer than GWR and BR green. My understanding is that BR green actually changed in 1956 to Deep Bronze Green. This was a very similar shade to GWR green but made use of new pigments that had been developed by ICI.

 

The picture below purports to show the various different shades of green under discussion together with GWR/BR style lining.

 

 

1. Deep Bronze Green (BR post-1956)

2. Middle Brunswick

3. Middle Chrome (GWR and BR until 1956)

4. Middle Bronze

5. Olive

6. Deep Brunswick.

[Clive Mortimore]

I had a very pleasant afternoon yesterday going through some of the archives at York and it’s now clear to me that BR steam and diesel locomotives were indeed painted in the same colour ie Dark Bronze Green.

 

I’ll post more later

Wow, something many of us have been trying to say for years.

[Clive Mortimore]

Brunswick green is definitely bluer than GWR and BR green. My understanding is that BR green actually changed in 1956 to Deep Bronze Green. This was a very similar shade to GWR green but made use of new pigments that had been developed by ICI.

 

The picture below purports to show the various different shades of green under discussion together with GWR/BR style lining.

 

 

1. Deep Bronze Green (BR post-1956)

2. Middle Brunswick

3. Middle Chrome (GWR and BR until 1956)

4. Middle Bronze

5. Olive

6. Deep Brunswick.

Hi

 

Can you please reference your findings to show that there was a change, for example the BR paint classification. As far as I am aware locomotives were painted in green to BR Spec. 30a.

[cctransuk]

Hi

 

Can you please reference your findings to show that there was a change, for example the BR paint classification. As far as I am aware locomotives were painted in green to BR Spec. 30a.

 

Where do these myths come from?

 

Penrith Beacon has just set to prove (to himself) at the NRM that there was only one colour - and succeeded.

 

Then we get Kardedron re-opening the non-mystery by throwing in no less than six colours !!

 

I give up !!!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Il Grifone]

Maybe it's my monitor, but to me any difference between 1 and 3 (and the colour I remember) is negligible, so I will continue painting them all with Humbrol HR104.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Il Grifone

[RedgateModels]

I'll carry on using a Halfords rattle can for all my green locos

[PenrithBeacon]

The archive makes it clear that neither the GW or BR referred to the colour as Brunswick Green. This seems to be an enthusiast’s construct. The colour was Chrome Green or Deep Bronze Green.

 

BR seems to have changed the colour in the mid fifties but I haven’t yet tracked down when exactly. The lining orange shade seems to have changed at the same time.

 

When it’s cooler I’ll trog down to TNA and do more ferreting.

[Butler Henderson]

Was the green always applied over the same base colour? Perceived differences may be down not the green being different but being affected by the undercolour, plus any slight differences that may have arisen in the mixing of the paint in the paint shops.

[trustytrev]

I had a very pleasant afternoon yesterday going through some of the archives at York and it’s now clear to me that BR steam and diesel locomotives were indeed painted in the same colour ie Dark Bronze Green.

 

I’ll post more later

Hello,

       I don't think anyone told the painters up and down the country at the time they were supposed to match the archives at York.

trustytrev.

Edited July 26, 2018 by trustytrev

[The Johnster]

Was the green always applied over the same base colour? Perceived differences may be down not the green being different but being affected by the undercolour, plus any slight differences that may have arisen in the mixing of the paint in the paint shops.

 

The WR hydraulics featured aluminium bodywork which was primed in a light green as opposed to the usual dark red primer used on steel, so this would be at least one example.  What difference it made to the final appearance I would not like to say, but it would not be much and no doubt within the range of normal fading or discolouring with age anyway.  

 

I'm not sure the paint was mixed in the paint shops; I believe the green was supplied ready mixed to them, and should have been the same throughout the country except perhaps for very minor variations in batches.  BR loco green is pretty much BR loco green, and the same as GW loco green, as far as I can see!

[peterfgf]

I'll carry on using a Halfords rattle can for all my green locos

 

Which one do you use for BR steam loco green please?

 

Peterfgf

[philsandy]

Which one do you use for BR steam loco green please?

 

Peterfgf

 

This link has a comprehensive list (near the bottom of the page) of railway colour matches to car colour sprays.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21686&start=25

 

For BR loco green I used Rover Brooklands green.

[PenrithBeacon]

Hello,

I don't think anyone told the painters up and down the country at the time they were supposed to match the archives at York.

trustytrev.

They were told to match the specifications

[Compound2632]

Evidently the intention was that the colour was the same. But there are all sorts of factors leading to differences in colour as observed on locomotives in service:

 

(1). the chemical composition of the pigment - which, as has been mentioned, could change with the introduction of new paint technology;

(2). the surface finish - varnished or not (and how many coats), polished with an oily rag, put through the washer, etc.;

(3). the ageing of the paint due to chemical processes such as reaction with pollutants in the atmosphere and exposure to sunlight;

(4). the accumulation of dirt;

(5). lighting conditions, including distance, atmospheric pollutants again coming into play.

 

Re. point (1), the aim would be to produce the same initial colour but different chemical composition would possibly result in different ageing effects. One would expect that more modern paints would show less variation and be more resistant to chemical change - though BR blue perhaps gives the lie to that.

 

It seems to me that the question for the modeller is not "what was the original colour?" but "how do I reproduce the observed colour, given the lighting conditions in which my model will be displayed?". 

[coachmann]

Threads about GWR/BR green come around more regularly than a good .    

[bike2steam]

Yep, then after being out on the road for a couple of months, after shopping, you wont be able to tell which green it was with all that 'weathering'.

[Compound2632]

Threads about GWR/BR green come around more regularly than a good ######.    

 

Did your customers specify length of time since last re-paint and region of operation (implying the balance of atmospheric pollutants), and detail the lighting in their railway room/display cabinet, when asking you to paint a a model green?

[Karhedron]

For BR loco green I used Rover Brooklands green.

Same here. Not quite sure if it is spot-on but I think it is close enough and gives a good finish. Here is a D600 I painted using it.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Karhedron

[tomparryharry]

I always have trouble with Western Green, usually whilst on top of Cader Idris, about 2am, in November.....And it's raining.....

 

Ian.

[Il Grifone]

The archive makes it clear that neither the GW or BR referred to the colour as Brunswick Green. This seems to be an enthusiast’s construct. The colour was Chrome Green or Deep Bronze Green.

 

BR seems to have changed the colour in the mid fifties but I haven’t yet tracked down when exactly. The lining orange shade seems to have changed at the same time.

 

When it’s cooler I’ll trog down to TNA and do more ferreting.

 

 

Possibly it started with the nearest available colour being Humbrol Brunswick Green until they brought out their Railway colours. (IIRC it was recommended for Kitmaster kits.) They are quite close as Humbrol Brunswick is not particularly blue tinted (or wasn't back then).

 

As regards 'Westerns', I never noticed any difference in the green at the time.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Il Grifone

[The Johnster]

I am quite happy to paint my green locos in anything calling itself Brunswick, or British Racing.  Life's too short to waste on this sort of thing; close enough for jazz does for me.  We'll be arguing about shades of black next (this is NOT an invitation to open a topic about how many shades of black were different to blackberry!!!).

[The Johnster]

I always have trouble with Western Green, usually whilst on top of Cader Idris, about 2am, in November.....And it's raining.....

 

Ian.

Those who have spent the night on Cadair are said to either return mad or as poets, but doing it in November if indicative of a prior mental issue.  I now expect your comments on the forum to rhyme, Ian...

 

It is a particularly insane spot to be painting a model loco.

[Clive Mortimore]

I know I have mentioned the BR Sec 30a as being the "green" used.  As a modeller I tend to leave RTR locos in the colour they come in unless they are converted and need a repaint, kits and scatchbuilds get a coat of which ever pot of BR green is near by.

 

Now very few of my locos are the same shade, when they should be, but as photos on this thread have shown there was in service variations and I hope my use of differing pots of paint reflects that.

 

My colour perception might not be as accurate as some other peoples but I do find most RTR models appear to be a green I can recall from 50 years ago. Some preserved diesels look like the paint has come from B&Q and been guessed at.

[Il Grifone]

British Racing Green was/is a darker green than GWR/BR Green.