Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[stivesnick]

For many years, Friday evening for me has always been Any Questions on Radio 4. Tried The Great Model Rail Challenge last night, enjoyed it a great deal and will be watching again next week.

 

It certainly got me thinking how I would have responded to the challenge of building a layout in 24 hours. How much pre thinking time did the teams have from being given the subject theme to actually turning up on the day. It was clear that they well developed plans for their layouts and were able to buy the things they needed.

 

As mentioned in previous posts I hope there are further series to allow the programme to evolve both from the modellers approach  and the judges that set the rules. With 3D printers and card cutting machines becoming more widely used there is no need to "cheat" just print something off during the show and assemble during the show.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[john new]

Hi,

 

I don't think they said in the first show what happens to the layouts.

.

The Basingstoke Bodgers layout from their heat (should be programme three) is to be at their Basingstoke and North Hants Model Railway Society's exhibition 2nd weekend in March 2019.

Its going at some stage to be repurposed as the clubs layout for children visitors at future exhibitions held by the club.

I expect it will appear at the clubs future open days if there is room.

 

That layout is currently being tarted up but I can't say what model railway exhibition its for yet.

 

We couldn't show the layout at our recent open day because the heat hadn't been shown on TV.

The club is rather full of layouts and tired modellers at the moment as we were asked to make a layout in 2 days for the Radio Times to publicise the first programme of the Great Model Railway Challenge.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Radio Times feature - Where it came over very well.

[Andy Y]

I don't know if any participants would be able to say yet what some of the rules were around what could be carried out ahead of the event? I get the six items of course but I'd also be interested to know if baseboards/legs were provided etc and whether size parameters were known in advance to assist planning etc? Was trackwork part of the six items for example and how much could be pre-determined? I take it the 'theme' was probably known in advance which would lead the stock choices? Such stuff does need some planning time and processes to reduce the likelihood of complete disasters.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Regarding the scratchbuild challenge, I agree in this case the objects were unusual BUT go back a long time ago for older generations like me and we always used everyday items from the house to "improve" our layouts. Books and magazines for bridges, shoe boxes for tunnels, toilet paper tubes for wagon loads, overlarge "Brittains" animals (and possibly dinasuars) etc. It was and is the creative mind in use, at least on the programme they had the benefit of adding brick paper etc to improve it.

 

Garry

Edited October 6, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[NIK]

I don't know if any participants would be able to say yet what some of the rules were around what could be carried out ahead of the event? I get the six items of course but I'd also be interested to know if baseboards/legs were provided etc and whether size parameters were known in advance to assist planning etc? Was trackwork part of the six items for example and how much could be pre-determined? I take it the 'theme' was probably known in advance which would lead the stock choices? Such stuff does need some planning time and processes to reduce the likelihood of complete disasters.

 

Hi,

 

The baseboards & legs were provided and in the heats were to be used to make a 10' x 5' layout. Track was not to my knowledge part of the six pre-built items. The theme for the heats was known in advance so the teams could pick items from the sponsors list of items in stock (not many in the case of Hornby and Bachmann).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Andy Y]

 This show wasn't aimed at enthusiasts and wasn't a documentary about how to model, but firmly aimed at the general public, and did this job well.  Hopefully it can help to kindle some interest in the hobby for the younger generation.

 

At Ally Pally this year we had a constant stream of visitors asking where they could see 'Silver Lady' from the Channel 4 Biggest Little Railway series, kids who were delighted to be able to see, touch and have their photo taken with the loco so hopefully this series can have a wider spread benefit with families going to shows and looking for local model shops.

[Captain Kernow]

I don't know if any participants would be able to say yet what some of the rules were around what could be carried out ahead of the event? I get the six items of course but I'd also be interested to know if baseboards/legs were provided etc and whether size parameters were known in advance to assist planning etc? Was trackwork part of the six items for example and how much could be pre-determined? I take it the 'theme' was probably known in advance which would lead the stock choices? Such stuff does need some planning time and processes to reduce the likelihood of complete disasters.

Yes, and what about the amount of R-T-P buildings or locos and rolling stock, even?

 

Didn't we read somewhere that the track was some kind of 'Peco allocation?'

[Andy Y]

The baseboards & legs were provided and in the heats were to be used to make a 10' x 5' layout. 

 

That's quite a generous size and if they were one-piece I can understand why people had difficulty getting them home afterwards!

[Phil Parker]

Kathy Millatt has put some behind the scenes photos up on her blog: https://www.kathymillatt.co.uk/blog/2018/10/05/great-model-railway-challenge-movies/

[RJS1977]

Regarding the scratchbuild challenge, I agree in this case the objects were unusual BUT go back a long time ago for older generations like me and we always used everyday items from the house to "improve" our layouts. Books and magazines for bridges, shoe boxes for tunnels, toilet paper tubes for wagon loads, overlarge "Brittains" animals (and possibly dinasuars) etc. It was and is the creative mind in use, at least on the programme they had the benefit of adding brick paper etc to improve it.

 

Garry

 

You've only got to look in RMs from 30+ years ago to see items like lipstick cannisters in use as modelling materials (I can remember someone building a 16mm scale D63XX loco using a shampoo bottle!). Not aware of anyone using shoes before, though Peter Denny once used pyjamas!

 

Most of Gerry Anderson's TV sets were exercises in junk modelling. And who hasn't built a space rocket out of a Fairy Liquid bottle as a youngster?

 

However the difference is that the usual route is "I want to make something, what can I use?" rather than "I've got this, what can I use it for?" 

[Captain Kernow]

It's occurred to me that there is one particular difference between this show and other similar 'challenge' shows like Pottery / Painting / Sewing / Bakeoff / Allotments / Master Chef / Interior design / Kirstie Allsop’s hand-made Christmas, in that these other shows feature a number of individual contestants, who return each week for a different 'challenge' (unless you're knocked out, of course).

 

Presumably in those shows, the individual participants would have had to have agreed to the filming schedules and the implications of that on their work and home lives.

 

The Model Railway Challenge teams only get to be seen on air once, unless they go through to the final, so in that respect, this is a somewhat different kind of format, as we don't really 'get to know' individual contestants from one week to the next.

 

But perhaps that's the nature of the beast. Maybe, if the Model Railway Challenge is successful in terms of ratings and advertising income etc., they'll tweak the format for a second series?

[PMP]

The more I think about it, I find it harder and harder to believe that the Missenden captain simply 'came out' with that kind of boasting. They are intelligent folks and anyone with an ounce of intelligence would know that statements like that would be seized upon by the programme editors.

 

To boast 'we're definitely going to win' is nothing more than 'pride going before a fall'. It's asking for trouble!

 

No, I think that there must have been some creative editing of his comments going on, maybe in response to some (unbroadcast) leading questions from one of the presenters.

 

And the end result is that the producers have nicely set up their 'villain of the piece!'.

 

Thinking about someone else's comments about substituting resin R-T-P buildings in lieu of the card kit terraces, if they were all glued together into one huge unit, then surely that would, strictly speaking, remain within the confines of the Rules?

 

Perhaps each terrace was glued into one long unit? I didn't catch whether they were or not. But they did look good.

The thing is with all these programmes participants sign waivers/model releases/contracts allowing any footage to be used, in any way the production company requires, and that is made very clear in the T&C's. Any time a camera is on you, 'you're on screen' so you have to be thinking about what you're saying. I'd be extremely surprised if the comments were in any way edited with any extra bias. The guy did mention he'd looked at the other contestants efforts and thought his teams stuff was better by far. So if you 'sledge' another competitor that's TV gold, especially if it backfires on you. The blue team run paid learning events for modellers and whilst this isn't a Ratners moment, it's certainly a 'facepalm moment. Any other teams not yet broadcast, that made similar comments can reasonably expect similar coverage.

 

In discussion with the production company regarding timing, baseboards were mentioned early on, and the dimensions/construction of them. I believe STC they may have been 4'x2' modules decorating table style, provided ready to use.

 

 

Edit: re schedule, yes the timetable was to be provided with filming dates and availability all the way through to the final.

Edited October 6, 2018 by PMP

[Grasshopper John]

Enjoyed it, looking forward to the series, I would be happy to own any one of those layouts, great moddeling.

[john new]

You've only got to look in RMs from 30+ years ago to see items like lipstick cannisters in use as modelling materials (I can remember someone building a 16mm scale D63XX loco using a shampoo bottle!). Not aware of anyone using shoes before, though Peter Denny once used pyjamas!

 

Most of Gerry Anderson's TV sets were exercises in junk modelling. And who hasn't built a space rocket out of a Fairy Liquid bottle as a youngster?

 

However the difference is that the usual route is "I want to make something, what can I use?" rather than "I've got this, what can I use it for?"

 

I think the scrap heap challenge idea of build an X here's the box of stuff you can use would have been more logical (it's what we do) but has been done on TV before and the "make something to fit out of this" is different and I thought worked. Two teams succeeded well, one perhaps not so successfully.

[Phil Parker]

You've only got to look in RMs from 30+ years ago to see items like lipstick cannisters in use as modelling materials (I can remember someone building a 16mm scale D63XX loco using a shampoo bottle!). Not aware of anyone using shoes before, though Peter Denny once used pyjamas!

 

Most of Gerry Anderson's TV sets were exercises in junk modelling. And who hasn't built a space rocket out of a Fairy Liquid bottle as a youngster?

 

However the difference is that the usual route is "I want to make something, what can I use?" rather than "I've got this, what can I use it for?" 

 

I always love to see the lemon squeezer at the back of the Thunderbird 1 launch bay.

[Captain Kernow]

Kathy Millatt has put some behind the scenes photos up on her blog: https://www.kathymillatt.co.uk/blog/2018/10/05/great-model-railway-challenge-movies/

I see they even had a facility for sleeping on the job!

[iL Dottore]

To be frank, I had low expectations of this show and was not disappointed...

 

First the positives:

• there was more than a few, tantalising, glimpses of superb modelling - especially given the time constraints
• nearly everyone involved seemed to be having great fun
• creativity was very much on display, although I wonder how many constraints were imposed on the teams by the production company? (rather than trying to cram too much into 3 days, why didn't the team inspired by the Ealing comedies just concentrate on recreating the atmosphere of one film - such as The Ladykillers)
• It looks like it would appeal to non railway modellers and that can only be a good thing.
• There was a total absence of sneer (ironic or otherwise). Despite the relative inanity of the format, railway modelling was treated as top notch hobby worthy of getting involved in.

Now the negatives (from my perspective)

• I was unimpressed by the judges and prersenters. Now I am not a regular watcher of UK TV, so the presenters may be the "bee knees" at the moment in Britain, but they lacked the sparkle and electricity seen in the GBBO presenters, Furthermore, notwithstanding the credentials of the judges, why weren't any of the editors of the British Railway Modelling Magazines luminaries of the modelling world asked to take part (or did they refuse?) and what about some of the luminaries of the modelling world?*
• The production company seem not have a clue about model railways and the format they have devised is - to be brutally honest - unsuitable for producing quality output (notwithstanding the excellence of the individual parts [ingredients] - the whole was less than the sum of the parts). Extending the build time to 7 days (6 days of modelling limited to ONLY 8 hours/day plus ¹/₂ day for set up and for demonstration) would have kept the time pressure but allowed for the teams to really show what they can do.
• There is reality TV and there is reality TV (does anyone remember the Slow TV reality TV the Beeb broadcast in 2015?  just focusing on the skills and with no superfluous gimmicks, commentary or music) and Knickerbockerglory - the production company  - seems to, at least in the first episode, revel in those clichés (selective editing to either enhance or diminish the subject, pointless jump cuts, cut aways when things get interesting, etc....). GBBO (at least from what little I have seen) seems to be the yardstick for good reality TV competitions: suitable editing, a lack of "bigging up" or "dissing" the contestants, a sense of fun and a lot of knowledge, clearly on display (I'm afraid that, in the first episode, neither of the specialised judges came across as knowledgeable - maybe in later episodes they will have a chance to display their knowledge????)

As my old house master once said (well, actually, said many times) "5/10, the boy has potential but poorly applies it"

 

iD

 

* amended to reflect the fact that Steve Flint IS indeed a model railway magazine editor (see my comment in post 122 below)

Edited October 6, 2018 by iL Dottore

[Phil Parker]

Now the negatives (from my perspective)

• I was unimpressed by the judges and prersenters. Now I am not a regular watcher of UK TV, so the presenters may be the "bee knees" at the moment in Britain, but they lacked the sparkle and electricity seen in the GBBO presenters, Furthermore, notwithstanding the credentials of the judges, why weren't any of the editors of the British Railway Modelling Magazines asked to take part (or did they refuse?) and what about some of the luminaries of the modelling world?

 

Steve Flint is editor of Railway Modeller magazine.

[Captain Kernow]

The blue team run paid learning events for modellers and whilst this isn't a Ratners moment, it's certainly a 'facepalm moment.

If this is the case, the level of not 'engaging brain before opening gob' astounds even me.

[NIK]

That's quite a generous size and if they were one-piece I can understand why people had difficulty getting them home afterwards!

 

Hi, 

 

They were in three pieces and the teams were not allowed to take the layouts home at the end of each heat. The layouts were released after the end of series filming. I guess the baseboards were split by the production company. They were sent by courier to the teams involved.

 

As to resources for the layout for the heats each team was given the same budget with a maximum for each sponsor involved. The heat teams were given lists of what was in stock at each of the sponsors (not a lot with Hornby and Bachmann).

 

As to visitors to shows Basingstoke and North Hants Model Railway Society of which I am a member has had 4 potential members come along to the club after our open day. It may not be a club record and most of the publicity about the Great Model Railway Challenge was during the open day but at least two of them  brought their kids with them when they revisited the club on an ordinary working session. The GMRC publicity courtesy of RMWeb may have helped with this.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited October 6, 2018 by NIK

[Captain Kernow]

• why didn't the team inspired by the Ealing comedies just concentrate on recreating the atmosphere of one film - such as The Ladykillers)

I think that layout already exists, Flavio, it's called 'Copenhagen Fields' 

 

Good to see you back on RMWeb too, haven't seen any posts from your good self for a long time!

[iL Dottore]

Steve Flint is editor of Railway Modeller magazine.

Thanks for that clarification. It was mentioned so fast in the introduction that all I got was that he is the editor of a "railway magazine"

 

Apologies to Steve for missing this (and my critique will be suitable amended).

 

But I'd  love to see him "strut his stuff" and show off his modelling knowledge (not much sign of that, yesterday).

Edited October 6, 2018 by iL Dottore

[TT-Pete]

Well I for one thoroughly enjoyed it, it was a bit of fun, and isn't that the main thing about having a hobby?  

 

Looking forward to seeing how it compares overall with Channel 4's recent "Battle of Britain: Model Squadron" (which I also thoroughly enjoyed).

 

Peter.

[Captain Kernow]

Steve Flint is editor of Railway Modeller magazine.

I thought Steve Flint was a good choice of judge. Presumably there is a connection there with the fact that Peco track was being used (I believe I did read that it was Peco somewhere, didn't I?).

[NIK]

I thought Steve Flint was a good choice of judge. Presumably there is a connection there with the fact that Peco track was being used (I believe I did read that it was Peco somewhere, didn't I?).

 

Hi,

 

Peco was one of the sponsors along with Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster and Deluxe Materials. Might have been Metcalfe as well.

 

Spoiler Alert: I probably misheard but didn't one of the teams say that the Ealing comedies were all about underdogs succeeding against the odds - what about the fate of the main male characters in the Lavender Hill Mob and the Ladykillers?.

 

Regards

 

Nick