Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[The Stationmaster]

I'll probably say too much  so apologies in advance.  Oddly I only came across the programme because I was looking through 'The Radio Times' but I thought I'd give it a go even though C5 has very variable production standards.  Net result was that not only did I enjoy it but so did Mrs Stationmaster and the Good Doctor (our daughter) and we all thought the best layout won.

 

The format - I don't really see how else they can create broader viewer interest without adopting a time limited competitive approach.  This is mass market tv and not some sort of explanatory hi-fi modelling magazine programme (which might well completely turn off many viewers) and unlike some series of Bakeoff this programme clearly involved folk who kew what they were at, most of the time.

 

Showing modelling happening - well yes despite that time constraint it did show layouts being built from the baseboard up to finished scenic displays with trains running through them.  And really what more could many viewers ask for - they saw a model railway layout being built and that might encourage newcomers who have always wondered how to build a mountain or do whatever.  Ok so not Pendon but how many of us build layouts to Pendon standards in a space of that size especially against a tight deadline; by contrast this was attainability plus some out of the box thinking which showed railway modelling can also be fun.

 

The scratchbuild challenge - brilliant, just the sort of thing which modelling needs in this age of R-T-P although shoes have never entered my mind as a basis for a model.  But a bit of fun, a lot of creativity and some scenes - albeit a bit short - showing how something could be totally changed and make a sensible appearance on a model railway.  Very clever idea and well put over despite looking totally stupid at its unveiling.

 

The Missenden 'marvels' - introduced and emphasised a bit of 'edge' which tv needs even if we don't and yes, I regarded what was very clearly a terrace of buildings as a single item, because they were.  Showed, albeit briefly alas, the idea and effect of a 3D backscene so a modern technique got a viewing.  And of course gave the judges something to hammer - not sure if it does the hobby any good in some ways but might in others by indicating to a wider audience that you don't have to be elite to produce something which looks good enough to win.  The bit which was missed was the fact that in some respects, warts an' all, this was more a layout than a diorama with much more train etc movement than the other two.

 

So overall we liked it and it was far better than I expected, my biggest concern was to wonder what has happened to Holiday Haunts which previously, and for a number of years, has occupied part of the space the programme used for the layouts.  And overall it was a darned sight better programme than the error strewn 'railway walks' programme which followed it with a presenter who didn't even get right the name of the company which had owned the line he was attempting to walk along.

[The Stationmaster]

It stayed pretty much 'on-line' as it were and it covered railway linked industry along the line such as Meldon quarry and the creamery that produces  Ambrosia creamed rice. I thought it kept to the railway theme better than the BBC did.

Apart from the fact that the creamery at Lifton was alongside the GWR branch to Launceston and was not served by the LSWR route between Exeter and Plymouth.

[Mick Bonwick]

 

(............., won't comment.)

 

You just did! 

[ChrisG]

Given that the main motivation behind making this series will have been to make money for the producers and the TV Company. our hobby didn't come off at all badly and they have probably come up with a pretty good format to sustain interest through the series. We modellers are largely passive partners in this endeavour, and our reward will be not money, but an improvement in profile and an expansion in the market for model railway products. Being screened in October, in time for Christmas will be a timely fillip for the hobby. 

 

 

Traditionally we have a geeky image based on an image of trainspotters dressed in anoraks with spotting books and railway modellers obsessed by ultimate detail and accuracy. The programme however showed modellers as normal people with normal behavioural characteristics. So far, all men all Caucasian, and predominantly from one age group. That probably reflects our demographic pretty well, but it will be good if there are people of different sex, age and race in the in the as-yet-unseen teams

 

The question of whether really good modelling can be achieved to a tight deadline is a good one, and our disappointment that "really good modelling" was hardly on display is understandable. My suspicion is that a programme where people are seen to achieve a complete layout in a short space of time is going to excite more interest than a one showing modellers creating miniature masterpieces over a period of years. 

 

Overall I am feeling positive. We've emerged well from what could have been a mauling. The main downside was that Missenden Abbey has done itself and the hobby no good whatosoever. I admired the standard of modelling but not the attitude which simply does not belong in the hobby (even though one sometimes encounters it)!  (My memory of attending a course there was that the participants were aspiring modellers and not the creme de la creme as they were portrayed on TV. The tutors, of course, were a bit different.

 

The geniunely new thing seems to me the injection of imaginative "themes". I know we have all themed our layouts for decades, but a theme of "Isle of Wight in the 1950s and 1960s" (which is mine) does not have mass market appeal. Whether the wives and mothers of modellers will find high-heeled shoes and lipstick disappearing from their boudoirs remains to be seen, but the idea that you can make a railway inspired by films is imaginative and no doubt there are more interesting "themes" to be unfolded in future episodes. Railways and Warhammer would probably do well. Railways and "My Little Pony"?  We shall see.......!

 

Chris Gardner

Alton

Hants

[Londontram]

Well I enjoyed it!!

 

 

Enough said

[sb67]

 

As people have said, there are non-modellers watching this. How can we make use of that to encourage them to take a look at the hobby? I'm not thinking they will leap into P4, but perhaps persuade a few more through the doors of the local show. My first thoughts are we could edit some of the BRM videos to provide short snippets that could be linked to Twitter or Facebook. Cover topics like laying plaster bandage, using a static grass tool and airbrushing. They would need to be 2 minutes or less long and explain some of those processes that people will see on screen but aren't explained. Any suggestions?

 

I recon the videos would be a good idea, it's a pity that BRM/RMWeb etc could not have had some sort of plug at the end of the episode along the lines of " if you would like to find out more about the hobby vist www. Etc, etc" Do you know if there was any plans for a book after the series, If there was could RMWeb have some involvement or mention. I think to make use of the bandwagon stuff needs to be associated with the programme, I know there's probably a bit of politics etc and I might have missed it but I never saw any reference to any products used.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Steve

[newbryford]

I remember pictures of the bottom of a large space ship from a film or TV series which clearly showed part of the underframe from an Airfix tank wagon kit.

 

You may be thinking about the Lowmac (or Loriot - before my time!) that used to transport the crew on a settee under Thunderbird 3.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2QFum90H9Q

[enginelane]

I don't know if any participants would be able to say yet what some of the rules were around what could be carried out ahead of the event? I get the six items of course but I'd also be interested to know if baseboards/legs were provided etc and whether size parameters were known in advance to assist planning etc? Was trackwork part of the six items for example and how much could be pre-determined? I take it the 'theme' was probably known in advance which would lead the stock choices? Such stuff does need some planning time and processes to reduce the likelihood of complete disasters.

There was obviously preplanning and the baseboards were delivered to the clubrooms. You need to know where things are going to go so simple grid of letters and numbers makes sure things fit. The size was given. I found the production company very helpful and quick to answer any enquiry either by phone or email. The theme was released for all 3 teams in each Heat at the same time so everyone had same lead in time. From the production budget items were then purchased via the production team and delivered to the teams. It was a professional process from start to finish.

[jonhall]

I'm sure Missenden knew they were spectacularly bending the rules, but I'm really surprised they didn't have a 'plan B' up their sleeves? I think they would probably 'got away with it' if, after being warned they had kept just the 5 rows of houses, and then given the docks and warehouses up, there didn't seem to be than much else that couldn't have been rustled up between them in the time available. It does seem a classic case of not understanding the brief.

 

It was overall a much better program than I feared.

 

Jon

[Pacific231G]

That's quite a generous size and if they were one-piece I can understand why people had difficulty getting them home afterwards!

They would have needed the layouts to be sufficiently large to provide enough filming angles. If you have a very long memory you may recall the Blue Peter model railway; with a modelled area comparable in size. It was rather larger than the typical "junior modeller's" layout would have been but not so much so as to seem totally out of reach.

 

I saw most of the programme last night and I'm still sort of undecided about it. I did check out the website of the production company "Knickerbockerglory"  and they look pretty good in terms of ethos and business model (based on profit sharing between all their people including freelancers- big tick there) so I think they'll play straight with the contestants who will be treated as seriously as those in Bake Off.  The format is very derivative but almost every TV format is; a truly original TV format that works is about as rare as a totally original Great Western BLT.

 

My doubts would be that this is seen as showing what railway modelling is all about, rather than a contrived competition. Albeit based on and acknowedging the skills employed by modellers it is a long way from what most modellers really do.

 

The programme rather oddly reminded me of the Trainsmania Show in Lille that I went to last year where Locorevue had a sort of  competition for experienced modellers to build one of their "Train'in Box"*  layouts. They could only use what was in the box and had just the two and a half days of the show to complete it.  I say sort of competition because there weren't enough takers to make it truly compettiive but the modellers who took it on did succeed in completing the layout.

 

I hope this series too will stimulate interest in our hobby but it may be from a rather distorted perspective. 

 

For me the best thing to come from watching the programme was discovering Kathy Millatt's work. I'd never heard of her before but I found her YouTube channel last night and her modelling demos are absolutely first rate and well filmed which is rare. (There was one on painting cobblestones that is very relevant to me just now)  She also had a very interesting pair of films explaining British railway modelling to an American audience  based on a clinic she gave at an NMRA Convention.

 

* Train'in Box is an interesting idea specifically designed to stimulate interest in the hobby by introducing every element of  it in a very accessible way. Essentially it offers a complete kit for a model railway in a single box containing absolutely everything you need, from baseboard, trackbed and track to building kits, controller and wire to build a  working, fully scenicced layout. The idea is that, having built it, quite possibly as a family, you'll want to go on and will have acquired the skills to do so.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Pacific231G

[CF MRC]

I think that layout already exists, Flavio, it's called 'Copenhagen Fields'

 

Good to see you back on RMWeb too, haven't seen any posts from your good self for a long time!

Except CF has taken 30+ years, not 3 days! Edited October 6, 2018 by CF MRC

[eastwestdivide]

On the time limits, I thought the programme did, in a back-handed way, convey something of the time needed to do a decent job. I think more than once, the contestants were shown saying something like "if only we'd had more time", and if you combine that with the quality of what did get produced, it shows what can be achieved.

The other extreme, showing real modelling in real time, would be something like the Fast Show spoof about Nick Park and his animations, where he's depicted repeatedly saying "and then i move it just a tiiiny amount".

 

In other words, within the constraints of a TV programme, it did a good job. No condescending/mickey-taking, and even showing comments from the competitors that could be construed as negative about the TV format itself (like those on the time factor and the shoe challenge). 

 

I enjoyed it, and so did my non-modelling other half, up to the point where she said something like "this looks annoyingly addictive, I'd better clear off before I get sucked in".

[Neil]

I watched it on catch up this morning as I was playing trains with my mates last night. I was going to say that I enjoyed it for what it was but on reflection that's not fair or totally accurate. I think that a different, more finescale, less time constrained emphasis could easily have become a bit precious or pompous. The lighter treatment, more concerned with the individuals, the drama of their models and the competition probably casts the hobby in a better light than an emphasis on the highest quality of model that could be achieved.

 

I know it's been mentioned before but it's pleasing to see the growth of programmes of railway interest on the telly and that enthusiasts aren't portrayed as social inadequates. Not so long ago the sight of a model railway in a crime drama was used  to imply that its owner was either a stalker, pervert or a pitiable loner. Hopefully programmes like Great Model Railway Challenge will play their part in reinforcing the perception that we're all fairly normal.

[railtec-models]

A show of this nature will inevitably have a primary goal of achieving maximum viewing figures rather than necessarily focusing on the substance of the hobby. I try to take it for what it's intended to be: a bit of fun. Entertainment for the masses; not a show aimed at modellers (how many shows do we see about weathering, or building base boards?).

You could say these shows promote awareness, maybe even acceptance(?) of the hobby, though given how hugely popular the hobby is, it's surprising that there's still such a stigma around it particularly in a modern climate where embracing all things niche is evangelised. I think much of the frustration comes from the fact that the hobby doesn't (in my view) particularly have a great social status anyway, in which case if it did people might generally be open to having a bit of fun poked at it. But life's too short to let myself get bent out of shape. Heck, running Railtec you've got to keep a sense of humour.

Still, always good to see Railtec product being used (IEP logos on opening credits). Makes a change to Crimewatch being the usual line of TV work

Edited October 6, 2018 by railtec-models

[hmrspaul]

I also enjoyed it and thought the winners well deserved.

 

However, I could have done with less external scenes, totally irrelevant. I would have liked to have been introduced to all of the modellers - there was far too much emphasis on a few 'leaders' fortunately two of the three were good ambassadors for the hobby.

 

Bringing in very detailed pre produced models obviously helped the final effort. However, for two of the layouts there was little mention of what they had done and for non of them any explanation of how it had been done. The controversial 80 houses looked very good, but there was no attempt to show how they were produced. Similarly, some of the set piece scenes of people (film crews for example) appeared very nicely presented but how they were prepared would have been nice - and probably of interest to the general public as they are the type of small models easily purchased and worked on to enhance any 'train set' railway.

 

I liked the D-Day preparation, but why no Q1, Austerity or S160. Generally, apart from mention of the red cross coaches and the warwell with a bomb, there was little mention of stock and of any attempt to match it with the themes.

 

Finally, I think it unreasonable to compare with GBBO, that is filmed over weekends but the contestants know in advance what is expected of them for some of the main bakes and many spend much time rehearsing them. And as has been mentioned the presenters must cost a fortune. As to the modelling show, I only knew of Steve Flint, I had never come across Kathy Millatt, but I now see she has a considerable web presence.

 

Paul

[Hroth]

...

I know it's been mentioned before but it's pleasing to see the growth of programmes of railway interest on the telly and that enthusiasts aren't portrayed as social inadequates. Not so long ago the sight of a model railway in a crime drama was used  to imply that its owner was either a stalker, pervert or a pitiable loner. Hopefully programmes like Great Model Railway Challenge will play their part in reinforcing the perception that we're all fairly normal.

In the most recent series of "Endeavour", the episode "Passenger" (broadcast 18/02/2018) has a character who is a trainspotter AND plays with trains.  I can't remember which of the stalker/pervert/pitiable loner categories he actually fits into, though loner/pervert are probably in the frame.  He also has a time machine as, though set in 1968, his layout is populated with Metcalfe buildings and his Western diesel has a working high intensity headlight...

 

I won't go into the real world motive power!

[NIK]

I also enjoyed it and thought the winners well deserved.

 

However, I could have done with less external scenes, totally irrelevant. I would have liked to have been introduced to all of the modellers - there was far too much emphasis on a few 'leaders' fortunately two of the three were good ambassadors for the hobby.

 

Bringing in very detailed pre produced models obviously helped the final effort. However, for two of the layouts there was little mention of what they had done and for non of them any explanation of how it had been done. The controversial 80 houses looked very good, but there was no attempt to show how they were produced. Similarly, some of the set piece scenes of people (film crews for example) appeared very nicely presented but how they were prepared would have been nice - and probably of interest to the general public as they are the type of small models easily purchased and worked on to enhance any 'train set' railway.

 

I liked the D-Day preparation, but why no Q1, Austerity or S160. Generally, apart from mention of the red cross coaches and the warwell with a bomb, there was little mention of stock and of any attempt to match it with the themes.

 

Finally, I think it unreasonable to compare with GBBO, that is filmed over weekends but the contestants know in advance what is expected of them for some of the main bakes and many spend much time rehearsing them. And as has been mentioned the presenters must cost a fortune. As to the modelling show, I only knew of Steve Flint, I had never come across Kathy Millatt, but I now see she has a considerable web presence.

 

Paul

 

Hi,

 

Possibly the stock was as it was due to suitable items not being available from the sponsors. Possibly if this show had been done twenty years ago when production runs of RTR were larger it might have made a difference but then again there would have been a smaller range of prototype stock to choose from.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[sharris]

As the builders are in at the moment and the TV is out of action, hidden under dust sheets, I watched it today in glorious 4" iPhone-o-vision.

 

After seeing some of the comments in one of the Facebook modelling groups I was expecting to be disappointed. As it turned out I was entertained and frustrated in equal measure. I found it entertaining in the same way that I find Bake Off: The Professionals entertaining (others have said GBBO, but I think it mirrors the teams and heats format of BO:TP much better- even down to the allowance of making some elements outside of 'competition time'). Frustrating because a lot of the 'back-story' was missing- some such as baseboards, gauge, manufacture restrictions, etc. has been outlined in posts here.

 

One thing I thought strange was the pitting of, presumably, two teams of amateurs against Missenden who, as they run courses on the subject, should be considered professionals - it would be like an amateur cooking competition allowing catering college trainers on an equal footing.

 

I thought the best team won in the end and wonder whether Missenden put themselves forward as (or allowed themselves to be) the pantomime villain in the piece - if so it might have backfired as I don't think it did their reputation any favours. Whatever, I think as a 'pro' team they should not have been included in the context of competitors, but as teachers could have been given a weekly short spot highlighting and explaining in more detail one of the techniques being used.

 

Edit:

In the light of information from Tim (CF MRC), my assumption that the Missenden team were professionals was mistaken, and I retract my comments that they should have been ineligible. However, I still believe there could have been a place for a short slot where an expert is invited to highlight some detail of the construction method.

Edited October 6, 2018 by sharris

[Crosland]

Can I suggest that we try to avoid spoilers for those watching on catchup, 

 

I missed it, and it's not available on freeview catchup (at least not on Talktalk) GRRRRRR!!!!!

[sharris]

I missed it, and it's not available on freeview catchup (at least not on Talktalk) GRRRRRR!!!!!

Depending on your device Channel 5 can stream past programmes to your computer, phone or tablet - I watched through My5 - their free iPhone app.

[eastwestdivide]

I missed it, and it's not available on freeview catchup (at least not on Talktalk) GRRRRRR!!!!!

Don't panic - it's Channel 5. If they don't repeat it, I'll eat my hat.

[sharris]

Don't panic - it's Channel 5. If they don't repeat it, I'll eat my hat.

In next week's scratchbuild challenge the three teams have to make what they can from a badly chewed hat.

[jonny777]

As it is a cold and miserable afternoon, I have just watched the programme on catchup. The wife was reading a book, but seemed to be attracted to the format after a few minutes. She is not a railway enthusiast, but is artistic and creative (in tapestries, crochet, and rug making) and appreciates craftsmanship when she sees it. 

 

We both enjoyed the programme and thought it was more similar to the Lego construction version, than GBBO (after all, who would be allowed to bring 6 cakes/pastries they had made at home and assemble them as part of a 'showstopper'?). 

 

I was impressed at what they all achieved in 3 days, and agreed with the judges' results. It was light hearted but full of modelling ability and hopefully will convince youngsters that a model railway can include whatever they fancy putting on it. 

 

As a few others have said, it is disappointing that none of the model railway manufacturers or retail outlets saw fit to place an advert in between sections of the show. Let us hope they were simply waiting to see audience figures for the first episode. 

[petethemole]

 

I liked the D-Day preparation, but why no Q1, Austerity or S160. Generally, apart from mention of the red cross coaches and the warwell with a bomb, there was little mention of stock and of any attempt to match it with the themes.

 

 

Paul

 

I noticed a Q1 on The Longest Day, it appears in some of Kathy Millatt's pictures.

[Steamport Southport]

I missed it, and it's not available on freeview catchup (at least not on Talktalk) GRRRRRR!!!!!

 

It's on Channel 5's own site.

 

http://www.channel5.com/show/the-great-model-railway-challenge/

 

 

 

Jason