Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[melmerby]

There have been reports of some poor/jerky running of the big Prairie

Just made a quick video of the slow running of my R3721

On DCC setting 1 of 127:

https://youtu.be/NNuyXcGLJc0

[Hilux5972]

Very impressive. 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

Very impressive. 

It's not quite as slow as some locos I have on minimum DCC setting but pretty good all the same.

I thing I'll try my previous Hornby Big Prairie from about 10 years ago, that is also a smooth runner and see how it compares.

Both have the same type of decoder - Lenz Standard +

[gwrrob]

On 31/07/2020 at 23:09, melmerby said:

 

Not sure how they are fitted, looked like part of the main moulding but I'm not so sure.

 

 

My thoughts too and mine went back to their correct position with some gentle manipulation.

[melmerby]

Something I have been having trouble with is the front pony truck derailing.

I reduced the occurence by putting some downfrorce from a spring but there were three places where it still occured

 

One was a reverse curve through a curved Peco point, another a Peco large radius point where I determined it was splitting the blades when going straight (but not when turned) and third a medium radius RH where the LH wheel was climbing the toe of the switch rail.

 

As a last resort I swapped the wheelset for that out of an earlier Prairie and success all three location were traversed safely.

The only difference I can see is that the earlier wheels have a slightly thicker flange, otherwise they look very similar. Certainly doesn't stand out as being the wrong wheelset.

Edited August 3, 2020 by melmerby

[luke_stevens]

61XX sound install.

 

I prefer the sound of a loco to come from where it's suppose to; no noisy tenders for me!

 

Youchoos MX648F GWR Prairie Class 61XX, LifeLink and SuperCap6800 with Road and Rail 26X11X4mm 'Sugarcube' under the chimney.

 

The bunker is waiting to be properly coaled, figures to be painted and plates to be fitted,but it now sound as good as it looks.

 

Luke

[gwrrob]

12 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

 

Any chance Luke of taking a photo of the body upturned please.

[luke_stevens]

10 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Any chance Luke of taking a photo of the body upturned please.

 

I've just added the coal to the bunker...

 

I'll take a photo tomorrow when the glue has set

 

Luke 

[luke_stevens]

57 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Any chance Luke of taking a photo of the body upturned please.

 

In this weather the glue is drying faster than I'd expected!

 

Hope this helps.

 

There isn't much space spare and available. The cab is a semi-closed unit so I'm going to have to fit the crew in from outside.

 

Luke

 

PS The inside of the bunker has a piece of plasticard I added as otherwise there wasn't quite enough space to put the decoder and other gubbins. You can also see the I trimmed the inside wall from the bunker to under the cab so that there is enough space for the wiring.

Edited August 3, 2020 by luke_stevens

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Something I have been having trouble with is the front pony truck derailing.

I reduced the occurence by putting some downfrorce from a spring but there were three places where it still occured

 

One was a reverse curve through a curved Peco point, another a Peco large radius point where I determined it was splitting the blades when going straight (but not when turned) and third a medium radius RH where the LH wheel was climbing the toe of the switch rail.

 

As a last resort I swapped the wheelset for that out of an earlier Prairie and success all three location were traversed safely.

The only difference I can see is that the earlier wheels have a slightly thicker flange, otherwise they look very similar. Certainly doesn't stand out as being the wrong wheelset.

Is it possible the back to back is out on the derailing wheel set? That’s the most common cause of derailments of Hornby locos in my experience. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by MikeParkin65

[luke_stevens]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Something I have been having trouble with is the front pony truck derailing.

I reduced the occurence by putting some downfrorce from a spring but there were three places where it still occured

 

One was a reverse curve through a curved Peco point, another a Peco large radius point where I determined it was splitting the blades when going straight (but not when turned) and third a medium radius RH where the LH wheel was climbing the toe of the switch rail.

 

As a last resort I swapped the wheelset for that out of an earlier Prairie and success all three location were traversed safely.

The only difference I can see is that the earlier wheels have a slightly thicker flange, otherwise they look very similar. Certainly doesn't stand out as being the wrong wheelset.

 

How old are the points? Over time both Peco and Hornby have made their running standards finer. Putting a course wheel through a fine point would make it derail. In the same way putting a fine wheel through a course point would have it not "know" which route to take and split the blades / climb out of the point, as you seem to be having. The fact that the earlier course wheel set works fine suggests this is what is happening.

 

Luke

[melmerby]

29 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

How old are the points? Over time both Peco and Hornby have made their running standards finer. Putting a course wheel through a fine point would make it derail. In the same way putting a fine wheel through a course point would have it not "know" which route to take and split the blades / climb out of the point, as you seem to be having. The fact that the earlier course wheel set works fine suggests this is what is happening.

 

Luke

New bought last year large radius Peco code 75 Electrofrog, not so new oldish medium Radius Peco code 75 Electrofrog, so one of each.

All points are code 75 Electrofrog purchased over several years

On the curved point it climbed out of the curve after traversing the turnout section successfully (inside radius)

[luke_stevens]

4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

New bought last year large radius Peco code 75 Electrofrog, not so new oldish medium Radius Peco code 75 Electrofrog, so one of each.

All points are code 75 Electrofrog purchased over several years

On the curved point it climbed out of the curve after traversing the turnout section successfully (inside radius)

 

Hm... If the were from before 2000 I'd suspect it was the fault of the points but as they are recent then that seems unlikely.

 

I suspect the back-to-back of the pony wheel is too wide. It should be around 14.5mm. Not as high as 14.75mm and not as low as 14:0mm.

 

The Double O Gauge Society intermediate Back to Back gauge should be what you need.

 

http://www.doubleogauge.com/shop.htm

 

No connection, not even a true 00 modeller (doing the 61XX for the club chairman...)

 

Luke 

[MG 7305]

On 03/08/2020 at 18:19, melmerby said:

Something I have been having trouble with is the front pony truck derailing.

I reduced the occurence by putting some downfrorce from a spring but there were three places where it still occured

 

One was a reverse curve through a curved Peco point, another a Peco large radius point where I determined it was splitting the blades when going straight (but not when turned) and third a medium radius RH where the LH wheel was climbing the toe of the switch rail.

 

As a last resort I swapped the wheelset for that out of an earlier Prairie and success all three location were traversed safely.

The only difference I can see is that the earlier wheels have a slightly thicker flange, otherwise they look very similar. Certainly doesn't stand out as being the wrong wheelset.

 

The pony truck pivot has a short screw which goes into a short pivot and if  you screw it up tight the relatively thick pony truck goes solid.  This contributes to both poor running over anything but perfect straight track in that it can lift the drivers off the track and also derailments as you noted.  I have filed down the pony truck pivot hole so that the pony truck can actually follow the track by going up and down.  I run DCC so I also added one of the big stay alives from Digitrains, a belt and braces approach.  This latter went into the bunker which was a right ****** as I had to take the bunker floor out to get it in.  Not the easiest thing I have done to a model.

 

Best regards

 

Julian

[St Enodoc]

10 minutes ago, MG 7305 said:

The pony truck pivot has a short screw which goes into a short pivot and if  you screw it up tight the relatively thick pony truck goes solid. 

I fitted a longer screw that bottoms in the pivot hole. It has a standard M2 thread.

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, MG 7305 said:

 

The pony truck pivot has a short screw which goes into a short pivot and if  you screw it up tight the relatively thick pony truck goes solid.  This contributes to both poor running over anything but perfect straight track in that it can lift the drivers off the track and also derailments as you noted.  I have filed down the pony truck pivot hole so that the pony truck can actually follow the track by going up and down.  I run DCC so I also added one of the big stay alives from Digitrains, a belt and braces approach.  This latter went into the bunker which was a right ****** as I had to take the bunker floor out to get it in.  Not the easiest thing I have done to a model.

 

Best regards

 

Julian

If you look at the video I posted on Monday you will notice the pony truck hanging down about 10mm after the fix I have mentioned at least twice.

No filing, no screw repacement, just a single turn of thin wire on the screw which will then tighten with plenty of play for the pony.

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎03‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 23:13, luke_stevens said:

 

Hm... If the were from before 2000 I'd suspect it was the fault of the points but as they are recent then that seems unlikely.

 

I suspect the back-to-back of the pony wheel is too wide. It should be around 14.5mm. Not as high as 14.75mm and not as low as 14:0mm.

 

The Double O Gauge Society intermediate Back to Back gauge should be what you need.

 

http://www.doubleogauge.com/shop.htm

 

No connection, not even a true 00 modeller (doing the 61XX for the club chairman...)

 

Luke 

Were Peco even making the Code 75 range before 2000?

 

I've needed to adjust at least some of the b-t-b's on almost every Hornby loco I've ever bought, though they are by no means the only offenders in that respect.

 

They are almost always too tight, hardly ever over.

 

John

Edited August 9, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

I check b2bs on all acquistions irrespective of make or if new or secondhand.  I criticise H for QC issues but all manufacturers seem equally capable of supplying models with incorrect b2bs, usually too narrow.  I do not count s/h models unless they are claimed to be NIB/never used.  I also check coupling bar height above the railhead, another surprisingly variable figure!

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Were Peco even making the Code 75 range before 2000?

 

I've needed to adjust at least some of the b-t-b's on almost every Hornby loco I've ever bought, though they are by no means the only offenders in that respect.

 

They are almost always too tight, hardly ever over.

 

John

Can't remember the exact date for Code 75FB but around 1993. I think that I was stocking it from the time I moved to my second trading address

[NCB]

Just been casting my eye over pics of 6110 in GWR livery with Great Western on the sides. A few thoughts:

 

1) The "Great Western" seems a tad high on the sides, doesn't look quite right. It may have varied in practice but on pics I've seen it is a bit lower.

 

2) The whistles are odd; the pipes going to them seem to be the wrong shape so that the whistles are sloping forwards, whereas they are normally near vertical.

 

3) Can the boiler strap be pushed down a bit; it seems a bit raised above the boiler.

 

Apologies if these have been covered before. Thoughts?

 

Nigel

[melmerby]

40 minutes ago, NCB said:

Just been casting my eye over pics of 6110 in GWR livery with Great Western on the sides. A few thoughts:

 

1) The "Great Western" seems a tad high on the sides, doesn't look quite right. It may have varied in practice but on pics I've seen it is a bit lower.

 

2) The whistles are odd; the pipes going to them seem to be the wrong shape so that the whistles are sloping forwards, whereas they are normally near vertical.

 

3) Can the boiler strap be pushed down a bit; it seems a bit raised above the boiler.

 

Apologies if these have been covered before. Thoughts?

 

Nigel

1) There is a picture of 6110 in RCTS Pt 9 taken in 1931 and the lettering looks to be in the same place with the tops of the lettering just below the grab handle by the shutter, so I would say that it is correct for this loco with this insignia.

2) This feature seems to vary so maybe the pipework varied but the whistles should IMHO be upright.

 

3) Looks like it is the tank strap, not part of the boiler cladding and it seems more obvious in some pictures than others, but never as much clear air between it and the boiler.

4111 in BR days:

 

[Miss Prism]

The model tank strap had to be made separate because of its two different versions: one with the handles, the other without. (The handles began to be fitted after 1945.)

 

 

[luke_stevens]

In terms of fitting crew it turns out you don't need to cut away parts of the floor or squeeze figures through the opening.

 

I just gently pushed up on the inside of the cab roof with a supported small screwdriver and the whole roof easily came away. There was a glue joint but it wasn't long or firm.

 

Almost felt as if it was designed to be released...

 

Luke

[Hilux5972]

13 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

In terms of fitting crew it turns out you don't need to cut away parts of the floor or squeeze figures through the opening.

 

I just gently pushed up on the inside of the cab roof with a supported small screwdriver and the whole roof easily came away. There was a glue joint but it wasn't long or firm.

 

Almost felt as if it was designed to be released...

 

Luke

Good to know. Cheers

[petrox]

19 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

In terms of fitting crew it turns out you don't need to cut away parts of the floor or squeeze figures through the opening.

 

I just gently pushed up on the inside of the cab roof with a supported small screwdriver and the whole roof easily came away. There was a glue joint but it wasn't long or firm.

 

Almost felt as if it was designed to be released...

 

Luke

I think you might have been lucky with your particular model - tried the same approach on mine, roof did not budge and a small crack appeared at the edge, so I will desist at this point. Pity as it seemed a good way to get a crew on board - may resort now to (carefully) cutting the floor or the cab doors.

 

Petrox