Hornby 2019 announcements

[JSpencer]

After a bit of reflection, I can't help but wonder if Hornby has made a bit of a tactical error with the B2 Peckett. The first release of the W4 sold really, really well- of course it would, they are very pretty locomotives. In fact, I think it's probably one of their most successful product launches in recent memory. However, since then we've had a second batch, and those ones, particularly the H&P set and the works green one, have stuck around a lot longer. Of course it's brilliant that Hornby have decided to keep the model on sale for longer, and I wish they did second batches more often. But I have to question how commercially savvy it is to introduce a new Peckett - an 0-6-0 variant, but superficially similar - when the W4 is still in production. The Hornby website shows 2 Pecketts from the announcements last May yet to arrive, and a further 3 were announced this month. I can't see all ones currently in stock selling out before the other two announced in May arrive, and in turn, according to Hornby's website, the three latest ones will probably arrive not long after that.

By the time the B2 arrives, there could be up more than 7 varieties of W4 still available, and choosy modellers will likely buy the new model over another W4. I predict that they'll be a few W4s in bargain bins come November time, which is good for the consumer but not Hornby's bottom line. I'm no businessman, but I did think they'd "rest" the 0-4-0 variant for at least a year or two before introducing the B2, so one wouldn't damage the sales of the other.

I agree. I,ve pre-ordered the B2 as that will doubtless sell out. The terriers will be pre ordered as soon as more details about the errors are known (I.e will they be rectified?) vis-a-vis Rails. The rest are re-issues and with Hornby's new discount restraints, will be wait and see what happens before I buy them.

[Coryton]

...Matters that could be improved are clarity over whether a model has NEM coupling mounts or not (and if not what they are - Airfix type, moulded on, loop size etc). T

 

I think this year's catalogue does have a symbol for NEM couplings by each model (but no more information that just that it has them).

[Coryton]

Also note that they were aware of a multitude of items that had incorrect prices and they've all be adjusted now. Eg: Class 66s, Belmond Belle etc.

 

 

And fortunately it seems that it was the 66's at £100 that were incorrect, not the ones at £75.

 

I did wonder why two of them were so much more expensive than the others.

 

I suspect that they will do quite well with a wide range of 66's at that price though they may not be to the taste of many people on rmweb.

[RJS1977]

Or perhaps just not to the taste of the most vocal people... ;-)

[adb968008]

I suspect that they will do quite well with a wide range of 66's at that price though they may not be to the taste of many people on rmweb.

You might be surprised.

After 6 weeks those £75 class 66’s will be £50.

Second hand Hornby ones will be £35 bargain bin fodder on ebay.

 

I’m already thinking if i could upgrade my Lima class 92’s using the motor bogie / adapting its frame (as in Lima days they were same), and I dont like the Hornby 92 and think the other one is just smoke for a while yet. I may do a partial frame / motor swap.

 

 

But if the paint job is upto scratch (and initial images look a little better than railroad average), then they could find a few kids stocking fillers, shed fillers for those on a budget.

 

Its the Bachmann ones i think will be harder to shift, with so little in it, wouldnt you go for the better one (assuming the Hattons one delivers the beans).

Edited January 19, 2019 by adb968008

[Robin Brasher]

Not sure that the 'Flying Dustman' is to my taste but it did visit the Swanage Railway last year that I am modelling in the Diesel Gala. It will add a splash of colour to my Mk1 green coaches. I don't know whether to wait 6 weeks for the price to go down to £50 or to wait until Hattons' next sale of the century at the end of October. It looks like good value for money at the recommended retail price.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Sold out at Hornby before it hit the shops, for some strange reason only Kernow had these no one else, unless

any one knows different.

 

I think I saw one today and I was not in Cornwall.

[Butler Henderson]

I think this year's catalogue does have a symbol for NEM couplings by each model (but no more information that just that it has them).

Only on the wagons. On the other had DCC Sound locos get two symbols indicating that!

[robmcg]

Sold out at Hornby before it hit the shops, for some strange reason only Kernow had these no one else, unless

any one knows different.

 

Sold out at Kernow, too.

 

Not sure about other retailers, they all take pre-orders.

 

Shades of 34001 Exeter... with a lost container or some other mystery. 

 

I confess I bought a couple of the original Exeters, thought I was a rich man, for a while.  I also bought a Duchess of Montrose from Kernow and it arrived here in NZ two days ago, looks perfect, and I would have photographed it but for other obligations.

[Coryton]

You might be surprised.

After 6 weeks those £75 class 66’s will be £50.

 

I might indeed be surprised. But why do you think they will end up at bargain prices so quickly?

 

Wouldn't that mean that a) Hornby got it badly wrong in making so many and b) shops also got it wrong in buying them?

[RJS1977]

I think it's because Hattons etc now have an agreement with Hornby that they won't sell models at below full price for the first six weeks after release, in order to give the smaller retailers chance to sell their allocations.

[newbryford]

I think it's because Hattons etc now have an agreement with Hornby that they won't sell models at below full price for the first six weeks after release, in order to give the smaller retailers chance to sell their allocations.

 

Below full price? 

More likely not below a certain discount - 10% IIRC.

(Bachmann and Dapol supposedly have similar agreements)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[robmcg]

Please Mr Hornby can we have a Fowler tender behind the planned LMS Stanier 6201 'Princess Elizabeth' as a special edition. I think she had such for nearly two years from 1933, and it would be so collectable.   Not sure about the boiler internals and fittings  at the time. Also the original tenders on 6200 and 6201 had roller bearings I think.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

 

I can see the collectors lining up as I write.

 

Pic concocted from existing tooling, with re-sized Duchess drivers, and (choke, gasp), a Bachmann tender, although if it's good enough for an 8F....

 

In fact the recent Hornby 8F tender is very nice is it not?  I must look at some photos!

 

Come on Simon K you know you can do it!  Soon we shall all be rich! New Year's Honours! You have to fail before you succeed!    Nurse, where are my pills?    

Edited January 20, 2019 by robmcg

[Coryton]

I think it's because Hattons etc now have an agreement with Hornby that they won't sell models at below full price for the first six weeks after release, in order to give the smaller retailers chance to sell their allocations.

 

Well yes I see where the 6 weeks comes from...but why would they go as soon as possible to such an unusually high discount?

[markw]

Please Mr Hornby can we have a Fowler tender behind the planned LMS Stanier 6201 'Princess Elizabeth' as a special edition. I think she had such for nearly two years from 1933, and it would be so collectable.   Not sure about the boiler internals and fittings  at the time. Also the original tenders on 6200 and 6201 had roller bearings I think.

 

Just a thought.

 

But 6200 and 6201 never had Fowler tenders, they had flat sided 4000 gallon 9T tenders, while they looked a similar shape in profile they were longer higher and wider than the Fowler 3500 gallon tender.

[Invicta]

But 6200 and 6201 never had Fowler tenders, they had flat sided 4000 gallon 9T tenders, while they looked a similar shape in profile they were longer higher and wider than the Fowler 3500 gallon tender.

 

 

There's a comment in the latest Hornby Engine Shed blog which states:

 

Three new types of tender have also been tooled, the ‘old standard’ 4000 gallon nine ton tender, the self-trimming ‘standard’ 4000 gallon nine ton tender and the ‘standard’ 4000 gallon ten ton tender

 

I really ought to know this, but does the reference to the 'old standard' 4000 gallon/9-ton tender suggest the 'Fowler-style' early tender appearing for a subsequent release, or are they talking about a variation on the high-sided Stanier tender theme?

Edited January 20, 2019 by Invicta

[robmcg]

But 6200 and 6201 never had Fowler tenders, they had flat sided 4000 gallon 9T tenders, while they looked a similar shape in profile they were longer higher and wider than the Fowler 3500 gallon tender.

 

Yes, my apologies.  I knew they were individual builds with 4,000 gallons and nominally 9 tons of coal, and roller bearings. I should have written 'Fowler style' tenders/

 

I am so impressed by the drawings for the new models, it's all very promising...

[Coryton]

I see that according to the pictures the latest version of the Christmas train set has a "Santa's Sleigh in Transit" van instead of the Reindeer van...perhaps in response to complaints about the fate of reindeer shut up in an unventilated van.

 

(I think the catalogue still described it as a reindeer van though).

 

The 1st radius loop also seems to have acquired two straights to make it into a short oval.

 

Looks as if it has the old controller - maybe the new one is only for standalone use not in train sets.

[robmcg]

 

There's a comment in the latest Hornby Engine Shed blog which states:

 

Three new types of tender have also been tooled, the ‘old standard’ 4000 gallon nine ton tender, the self-trimming ‘standard’ 4000 gallon nine ton tender and the ‘standard’ 4000 gallon ten ton tender

 

I really ought to know this, but does the reference to the 'old standard' 4000 gallon/9-ton tender suggest the 'Fowler-style' early tender appearing for a subsequent release, or are they talking about a variation on the high-sided Stanier tender theme?

 

 

I'm sure it will become apparent during the year via the Engine Shed.  The Fowler style might well be 'the old standard'....?

[Robin Brasher]

R050 6200 'The Princess Royal' made from 1984 to 1985 had a Fowler tender.

 

I have been looking at the R numbers in the Hornby 2019 catalogue. The original R1 was a train set. In the catalogue R044 Point Motor Switch-black to R920 Insulated Fishplates seem to relate to items produced before 2000. I think the black point motor switch dating from the 1950s is the longest surviving item. Hornby did run out of numbers and some of the old coaches were replaced with completely different coaches with the same R number.

 

R1000 onwards relates to train sets, R3000 onwards relates to locomotives, R4000 onwards relates to coaches, R6000 onwards relates to goods wagons, R7000 onwards relates to scenic items and cars, R8000 onwards relates to station buildings, track and TTS locomotives and R9000 onwards relates to buildings.

[Dunsignalling]

 

 

I have been looking at the R numbers in the Hornby 2019 catalogue. The original R1 was a train set. In the catalogue R044 Point Motor Switch-black to R920 Insulated Fishplates seem to relate to items produced before 2000. I think the black point motor switch dating from the 1950s is the longest surviving item. Hornby did run out of numbers and some of the old coaches were replaced with completely different coaches with the same R number.

 

 

Not just coaches, and not just once; there was a Hymek, "41 Squadron" and a version of "Flying Scotsman" that were all R.074.

 

I had all three at one time.....

 

John

Edited January 21, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Hroth]

 

 

I have been looking at the R numbers in the Hornby 2019 catalogue. The original R1 was a train set. In the catalogue R044 Point Motor Switch-black to R920 Insulated Fishplates seem to relate to items produced before 2000. I think the black point motor switch dating from the 1950s is the longest surviving item. Hornby did run out of numbers and some of the old coaches were replaced with completely different coaches with the same R number.

 

 

 

The set of three lineside huts (originally R84?) must run the point switch pretty close as a Triang item still in production, appearing in the R8228 extension pack and in some trainsets.

[adb968008]

R050 6200 'The Princess Royal' made from 1984 to 1985 had a Fowler tender.

 

Are you sure ?

Hornbys fowler tenders were three chassis types, and three body types, the rivetted railroad one used on the Compound and Patriot, and the inherited Airfix one used on the 4f and MR 4-4-0 and a smooth body side on the princess royal.

Lets disregard the Airfix one for now, this leaves 2 “fowler” bodies and two “chassis”

 

They used a longer flatter tender for the 6200 Princess Royal, but it was longer than a standard fowler.

 

I did some checking of service sheets..

R050 6200 Princess Royal, used service sheet 149, with a tender chassis x1396 shared two compound (R355 1984-85 and R376 1981-83 both 1000 in red) releases but had its own specific tender body.

R311 / R357 (1979) 5541 Duke of Sutherland used sheet 119, had the “short wheel base” tender, sheet 120, using chassis X1069 and a riveted tender body.

 

 

The tender for the princess used chassis block and motor X1075, where as the compound used x1691

Looking at the components, the only difference i see the the chassis block tender wheel spacing, and 1 gear ..S9634 vs S9633.

 

Later release compounds (R175 - 86/87) and patriots used the “shorter” chassis, sheet 120, and later princesses used a stanier tender on sheet 149a. it appears the tender originally used in sheet 149 fell out of use, as did the smooth tender body.

 

If you look closely you can see the difference...

The 6200 and both 1000 models have an extra hole in the tender frame next to the footplate steps..

Here

https://www.hattons.co.uk/95326/Hornby_R050PrincessRoyal_LN_Class_8P_Locomotive_The_Princess_Royal_6200_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx

And here

https://www.hattons.co.uk/103955/Hornby_R355_MR_HX_Class_4P_Compound_4_4_0_1000_in_MR_Maroon_Pre_owned_DCC_fitted_poor_box/StockDetail.aspx

 

Where as other releases (including current releases) do not..

https://www.hattons.co.uk/423277/Hornby_R311_PO08_Patriot_Class_5XP_4_6_0_Duke_Of_Sutherland_5541_in_LMS_Maroon_Pre_owned_sold_a/StockDetail.aspx

And here

https://www.hattons.co.uk/64831/Hornby_R175Loco_Class_4P_4_4_0_41043_in_BR_Black/StockDetail.aspx

 

As an aside i read 1000’s tender at the NRM was from an S&D 7f 53805, and is actually a Deeley tender from 1914, which explains the extra “hole” in the chassis..

https://goo.gl/images/TSD41D

 

As an aside heres the real 6200 with an unusual fowler tender..(not its as built nor is it a stanier).

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LMSSteam/Stanier-Locomotives/Princess-Royal-Class/4620046204/620046200-The-Princess-Royal-/i-bdRhKF8

 

So Hornbys’ 6200 has a Deeley tender, as per 1000, which is incorrect for 6200, but isnt a fowler tender either. I’m surprised 1980’s Hornby went to this detail, but presumably had an eye to both models in the design stage, maybe they were considering a 3f/4f down the road.

 

Finally Bachmanns 1000 also has the deeley tender, unlike their other Compound models 1189/40934/41157.

Edited January 21, 2019 by adb968008

[Andy Y]

Phil's been down at the Toy Fair today and has spotted this on the Hornby stand.

 

 

It's obviously not in the catalogue and may be there to establish interest with bigger buyers in the same way as the Downton Abbey set was a few years ago.

 

A Diet version for N gaugers?

[MGR Hooper!]

Phil's been down at the Toy Fair today and has spotted this on the Hornby stand.

 

20190122_155426.jpg

 

It's obviously not in the catalogue and may be there to establish interest with bigger buyers in the same way as the Downton Abbey set was a few years ago.

 

A Diet version for N gaugers?

Quite nice and quirky, however would prefer a Sentinel or the RailRoad Class 02