RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2019 47 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: For those of you for whom this does not matter, how do you justify spending £150+ on a model of such fine detail? Detail is only worthwhile if basic dimensions and shapes are right. E.g. what is the point in a detailed buffer beam if the buffer beam is 25% higher than it should be off the track because the running plate is bowed? A stupidly high buffer beam IS visible as the loco is running round the layout. Hornby have it within their powers to get this right. The basic CAD is correct. The original tooling did not have this problem, so its not an inherent flaw in the design of the model. This is why it is unacceptable. We all appreciate compromises are necessary in 4mm models, but given this was right in the past, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for skewed running plates as a necessary compromise, other than someone somewhere didn’t do their job properly/is cutting corners. If they got this right I would certainly be in the market for an as-preserved 60103, but I won’t while they fail to rectify this issue. Simples - if you dont like it dont buy it. As this thread has drifted towards a discussion of what we choose to see or not see I am struck by a an exchange I have had today on Facebook about the wheels on the new Heljan class 25 which apparently lack the 'iconic' holes around their circumstance. I am reasonably familiar with Class 25's but I have never i noticed this. We choose to see what we want - I am saying the blue 60103 is a very attractive model - people shouldnt be put off by an error that isnt that apparent in the model. No one needs to 'justify' buying something that they like. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 8 hours ago, cctransuk said: What does this mean - I hear it regularly nowadays? Does it imply that you are fastidious about correct detail? If so, join the rest of us - does that mean we are all 'on the spectrum'? Regards, John Isherwood. My favourite gripe about the A3 is the valve gear, I forget the nomenclature but the arm from the centre driver to the expansion link? sits too low should be horizontal or slightly raised?.... but then I see it running and it looks ok. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2019 Those who worry about 'wobbly running plates' might like to consider 45596, newly restored and running through Worcester tonight! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said: Simples - if you dont like it dont buy it. As this thread has drifted towards a discussion of what we choose to see or not see I am struck by a an exchange I have had today on Facebook about the wheels on the new Heljan class 25 which apparently lack the 'iconic' holes around their circumstance. I am reasonably familiar with Class 25's but I have never i noticed this. We choose to see what we want - I am saying the blue 60103 is a very attractive model - people shouldnt be put off by an error that isnt that apparent in the model. No one needs to 'justify' buying something that they like. hear hear !!!! as an observer of real steam railways of the 50s and 60s there were a lot of things which modellers would never accept, but they happened... odd paintwork, bent steel bodies, you name it. Edited July 4, 2019 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 and of course Hornby have done it before... cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said: Those who worry about 'wobbly running plates' might like to consider 45596, newly restored and running through Worcester tonight! From a position of sheer pedantry, there is a difference between a uniform slope and a buckle resulting from general usage. Having said that... 7 hours ago, robmcg said: as an observer of real steam railways of the 50s and 60s there were a lot of things which modellers would never accept, but they happened... odd paintwork, bent steel bodies, you name it. One of the joys of military modelling is making something look like it's been used. Bending brass, or taking a sander to plastic is almost therapeutic. But those kits are relatively cheap. I'm not sure I have the courage or skill to deliberately damage an RTR model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traintresta Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 9 hours ago, cctransuk said: It's all fashionable gobbledy-g00k !! We're all different, but society insists on trying to label us all. EVERYONE has 'peculiarities' - there is no such thing as 'normal'. In a social environment, some personal 'peculiarities' are deemed to be undesirable and so the 'sufferer' is labelled as being 'abnormal'. This labelling - even amongst mental health professionals - is wholly counter-productive. When I discussed my symptoms with a mental health professional, it was explained to me that certain recent life experiences had sensitised me, and produced symptoms that I was finding disruptive to the way I wished to conduct my life. I was assisted to recognise the triggers for these symptoms, how to avoid or minimise them, and was prescribed medication that helped me to avoid over-reacting. At no point was it suggested that I was 'on the spectrum' which, IMHO, is a convenient catch-all to reassure sufferers that they are 'normal', and to avoid the need to look closer into the actual cause of the mental problems. ... which in itself could well be a symptom of insufficient mental health professionals trying to help an overwhelming body of patients! Regards, John Isherwood. 9 hours ago, truffy said: Perhaps 'normal' is the wrong word. Perhaps 'non responder', or something. Doesn't matter, like you said, it's convenient labelling. But there's not doubt that some respond to a more sever degree that others, even if everyone does to at least a minimal degree (minimal enough to keep it hidden...even from themselves). Nevertheless, that's where the 'spectrum' concept comes in, fashionable hipster gobbledegook or not. So you’re trying to tell me that being autistic or having aspergers is fashionable gobbledegook! I’m sorry but that’s an insult. I suppose stage 4 lung cancer is just fashionable gobbledegook for having a bit of a cough is it?? i find it very insulting and also very demeaning that I have explained my condition and how it affects me and yet you insist that because you do not need a label that it’s all just a part of being human. You may not need a label but I do, because I have always known I am different. If you can’t accept that then I’m afraid you are the problem with society’s perception of non-visible disabilities. You might be interested to know I have a chronic tic disorder, a form of Tourette’s, which is uncontrollable muscle spasms. But hey, I guess I just keep looking over my shoulder and twitching my face and other parts of my body because I just have a nervous disposition! 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2019 Come on guys can we get back on topic and stop the sniping? Yes we all have our issues, no it’s not nice to deride people because of them. Can we get back to the model chat now? 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said: Come on guys can we get back on topic and stop the sniping? Yes we all have our issues, no it’s not nice to deride people because of them. Can we get back to the model chat now? Hear hear! This thread isnt about mental illness, autism or learning disability. Where are the mods when you need them? Probably on their scooters down to brighton.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Traintresta said: So you’re trying to tell me that being autistic or having aspergers is fashionable gobbledegook! I’m sorry but that’s an insult. I suppose stage 4 lung cancer is just fashionable gobbledegook for having a bit of a cough is it?? i find it very insulting and also very demeaning that I have explained my condition and how it affects me and yet you insist that because you do not need a label that it’s all just a part of being human. You may not need a label but I do, because I have always known I am different. If you can’t accept that then I’m afraid you are the problem with society’s perception of non-visible disabilities. You might be interested to know I have a chronic tic disorder, a form of Tourette’s, which is uncontrollable muscle spasms. But hey, I guess I just keep looking over my shoulder and twitching my face and other parts of my body because I just have a nervous disposition! My final post - as requested. My only point - as made in my first post - is that the much-used term 'in the spectrum' has no meaning; at least not one that anyone has been able to explain to me. Over and out. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 14 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said: Those who worry about 'wobbly running plates' might like to consider 45596, newly restored and running through Worcester tonight! But that a locomotive that's had eighty odd years of wear and tear. The Hornby model is meant to be an almost new locomotive in immaculate condition for display in an exhibition showcasing the best of British engineering to the world. It shouldn't have any bumps. Jason. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) In summary the recent A3 models, after Sanda Kan, appear to have been variable in production and assembly quality, with issues around the second-from-front boiler band, front of running plate 'sit' on frames or chassis assembly, and even in SK days there were some questionable cab-running plate assembly issues. I had a weatheRed late BR 6013 Flying Scotsman which for me irredeemably bad around the front and I returned it, the replacement was ok. the faulty one I photo-shopped it and go this; which is more-or-less what the replacement looked like. A very impressive engine, and model. Similarly LNER 2599 Book Law suffered (made post 2012 ?) here are a couple of vendors pics, top one I think from Rails who also did weathering, Make your own call in the ski jump, and if it is bad, I took the body off one of mine and with thumb pressure and cleaning the faces of the chassis-body at front got a result... I recall someone wrote definitive fix for bent running plates somewhere here on RMweb so it's not un-fixable. I think you just pays yer money and takes yer chance. And Flying Scotsman always looks great! cheers I can't wait for 4468 in GN-tender 1920s-style! Edited July 5, 2019 by robmcg 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) and here it is... ! based on a Hattons pic of 1470 and Hornby R3736 which was supposed to be a June 2019 release. Now we can argue about discuss greens again.... or cylinder lining, or wheel rim lining or lack thereof and here are some more pics of what we might reasonably expect in the near future... and as an example of how these models can be made to look, a Rails A3 2599 'Book Law' with some sympathetic picture-editing.... Everyone loves the A3, after all.. Edited July 6, 2019 by robmcg date error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddles47 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 On 04/07/2019 at 12:46, micklner said: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/lner-a1-class-4-6-2-4472-flying-scotsman-era-3.html Read the blurb Wembley is vaguely mentioned and that was reason for the Crest being fitted, the reason for having highly polished buffers and wheel rims (which Hornby have still left lined out ), are wrong as shown in the above photo. It never ran in service as shown, as said it's poor research by Hornby, they should have fitted a GS Tender. Very poor effort, for a very expensive model. Hornby are right though. She was paired with a GN tender no. 5223 from new and prepared for Wembley between 27/12/23 - 2/3/24. "Prepared for display at British Empire Exhibition, Wembley including LNER crest on cabside, brass trim to splashers and burnished tyres." From then she was displayed with tender 5223 at the exhibition. From 23/3/25 - 19/4/25 she had a heavy repair at Doncaster, which was when the K3 tender no.5378 was attached to save space at the next part of the exhibition at Wembley. It was only after that when she returned to Doncaster for a light repair 16-28/11/25 and re-attached to tender no 5223. Between 14/2/28 - 5/4/28 she had a General repair at Doncaster and was paired with new corridor tender no. 5323 and the cabside numbers restored. She was then paired with corridor tenders until 20/10/36 after repair at Doncaster, when she gained GN tender no. 5290. She retained the brass beading to the splashers well into wartime. Her final tender was streamlined non-corridor no. 5640 which she kept until withdrawal in Jan'63. So anyone who wants to buy the new model will have to be liberal with silver or chrome paint. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 a slightly tidier version of what might soon be arriving, if we are good... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2019 Looking at images posted by Hattons and Rails, the new Flying Scotsman seems to have a nice level running plate. Doesn’t seem to be any sign of an angle anywhere. Hopefully it’s the end of the ski season. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Hilux5972 said: Looking at images posted by Hattons and Rails, the new Flying Scotsman seems to have a nice level running plate. Doesn’t seem to be any sign of an angle anywhere. Hopefully it’s the end of the ski season. Missing the Splasher's Brass beading in the Rails photos. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Hilux5972 said: Looking at images posted by Hattons and Rails, the new Flying Scotsman seems to have a nice level running plate. Doesn’t seem to be any sign of an angle anywhere. Hopefully it’s the end of the ski season. Indeed, a pleasant way to wake up today, here is Hattons' photo I have added a vignette and taken the extreme liberty of straightening the vac pipe on the front, otherwise all is as the model should be if you buy it. Pity about the splasher beading not being included, but a nice straight assembly by the look of it. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, micklner said: Missing the Splasher's Brass beading in the Rails photos. I'm not sure that's a newly-arrived stock photo. Rails use slightly different focal length and lighting, usually. here it is with a touch of vignette. I think it may be a Hornby pic. I'm wiling to be proven wrong. Indeed a pity about the brass splasher-beading being overlooked. If the factory have got the manufacturer and assembly issues resolved then that is a great success. To be honest,some of the recent models WERE just about perfect with regard to smokebox and front running plate, but some weren't, it was a bit of a gamble. Here is another Hattons' photo of the new 'in stock' model, I added vignette, straightened vac pipe at front and sharpened. Thankyou Hattons. sadly the box art or advertising art DOES show brass beading on the wheel splashers, and given that this was a distinguishing feature of 4472 right through its life , in my humble opinion an appalling oversight on Hornby's part. It would not be easy for an owner to add or paint these on. Again, but for a pennyworth of tar..... I think these would be big sellers with brass beading, as it is we might wait until its fixed, or remaindered... sadly. Ironically now the ski jump appear to have gone on the Hattons model at least, there is a hint of ski-jump on the box art.... is it possible to buy flexble adhesive brass-appearance strip for the wheel-splasher edges I wonder? Or cut or stamp some suitably-toned shiny paper? these two pictures below (Wikipedia commons) of LNER-era 4472 show off the beading... am I being too fussy? in restored life she hasn't got the beading, Edited July 17, 2019 by robmcg added comment and pic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Using Hornby's own picture, and my editing, it is quite a nice model... or, if you MUST have beading... Hattons say they have but 9 left, with more coming.... is it too much to hope that the next lot will have brass splasher trim? Edited July 18, 2019 by robmcg add picture with brass beading 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Update; R3736 4472 LNER 1924-ish is now widely available e g Ebay various vendors, Rails, Kernow, Hattons, and most still used the factory art which shows brass beaded splashers. Alas not on the models. pic taken from the only Ebay vendor with the time to take a production model out of its box, apart from Hattons, so far... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 It does rather incline me to buy a 60103 BR blue version complete with possible ski-jump and ashpan lever on wrong side.... at least they are cheaper! And we all like a gamble.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 On 16/07/2019 at 22:42, robmcg said: I'm not sure that's a newly-arrived stock photo. Rails use slightly different focal length and lighting, usually. here it is with a touch of vignette. I think it may be a Hornby pic. I'm wiling to be proven wrong. Indeed a pity about the brass splasher-beading being overlooked. If the factory have got the manufacturer and assembly issues resolved then that is a great success. To be honest,some of the recent models WERE just about perfect with regard to smokebox and front running plate, but some weren't, it was a bit of a gamble. Here is another Hattons' photo of the new 'in stock' model, I added vignette, straightened vac pipe at front and sharpened. Thankyou Hattons. sadly the box art or advertising art DOES show brass beading on the wheel splashers, and given that this was a distinguishing feature of 4472 right through its life , in my humble opinion an appalling oversight on Hornby's part. It would not be easy for an owner to add or paint these on. Again, but for a pennyworth of tar..... I think these would be big sellers with brass beading, as it is we might wait until its fixed, or remaindered... sadly. Ironically now the ski jump appear to have gone on the Hattons model at least, there is a hint of ski-jump on the box art.... is it possible to buy flexble adhesive brass-appearance strip for the wheel-splasher edges I wonder? Or cut or stamp some suitably-toned shiny paper? these two pictures below (Wikipedia commons) of LNER-era 4472 show off the beading... am I being too fussy? in restored life she hasn't got the beading, Brass beading can be made fairly easily . Flatten Brass wire with a Pin hammer, after curving to the rough shape ,adjust then cut to size needed, finally file the brass smooth. Bill Bedford use to do a etch of curved beading , which I luckily bought a few years ago, sadly it does'nt appear to be no longer available. Send a message to Bill Bedford he might still have some, or the etch tool to make them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2019 40 minutes ago, micklner said: Brass beading can be made fairly easily . Flatten Brass wire with a Pin hammer, after curving to the rough shape ,adjust then cut to size needed, finally file the brass smooth. Bill Bedford use to do a etch of curved beading , which I luckily bought a few years ago, sadly it does'nt appear to be no longer available. Send a message to Bill Bedford he might still have some, or the etch tool to make them. Can be replicated much easier in this scale with some paint lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddles47 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Its not just the beading that was brass.. the whole of the tops were brass too! paint at the ready! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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