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Farish Class 319


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1 hour ago, TomE said:

Surely this has to be prime club model territory!

 

4931703.jpg.f2053adcfa38cfb5aad4233f0cf96cb7.jpg

 

I had forgotten that one. You would have thought it would have been seared in my retinas. :jester:

 

So far the EPs shown appear to depict the original 319/0s which is fair enough as they are the more numerous. Will they revise them for the 319/1s or /3s? I wouldn't bet on it. My guess is they will slap the livery on and hope no one notices. The reason I say this is that the EPs do not appear to have a "seam" which would indicate the presence of a replaceable slide in the tooling to slot in option components.

 

I remember when the Blue Pullmans were at the EP stage, eagle-eyed viewers spotted a seam near the front and guess (correct it would appear) that this would allow for the easy addition of the revised front end with MU cables which finally came out last year.

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2 hours ago, bigP said:

The 319/0s had the flat plate under the cab end, and the drivers door had a curve in the top corner that faced the passenger saloon.  Most notably the door had a large rubber seal sticking out.

All were NSE commuter grey (like 317 and 455), with the first ten or so got the original lighter NSE blue which sharp angled upsweeps, then some got the ‘revised’ livery which meant curved upsweeps and original NSE blue, then the last ones off the line got the darker NSE Blue with ‘revised’ livery curved upsweeps.  Thus 3 versions of NSE livery are applicable to the 319/0, just like the Class 50s.  It all depended when they went through the paint shop!

 

I could be wrong but I thought that the darker NSE blue was introduced before the change to the upsweeps. So there were some units in dark blue with angled upsweeps but none in light blue with curved upsweeps. Although I freely admit that my memory from 30 years ago could be playing tricks on me.

 

The image below from Farringdon looks like the later dark blue but angled upsweeps (unless it is really light blue and just a trick of the lighting).

 

2018-04-24-0002b.jpg

 

This shot of one of the early units shows the original NSE blue was quite a lot lighter.

 

kings_cross_thameslink103.jpg

Edited by Karhedron
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20 hours ago, grahame said:

One thing that does still grate a little is that the roof dome should curve down more continuously to the face outline groove at the top without the added flat ledge as here:

 

341654288_Cllass319faceedge.jpg.98ccba35df8bc241eb52656fb6c5535e.jpg

 

And the bottom of the obstacle plate doesn't look correct (although it's difficult to tell from the pic). The round horn cut out ought to be more prominent and the bottom edge should be more continuous and flat rather than stepped back with those what appear to be angled sections that have been added.

 

1240303743_Class319plate.jpg.fc8c1a0cd1756a5ae50f13f3dde2e919.jpg

 

 

 

 

Hi Graham,

 

On some photos of the prototype I totally agree with you about the roof dome. But looking at other photos (like below) I'd say they've got it close to spot on. 

 

I am lacking the knowledge to say if this is also linked to the 319/0 or 319/1s, or the reworking that occurred in the late 90s?

 

CSC EMU 319 002 at Rugby. 1998.

 

All the best,

Dave

 

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8 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Will they revise them for the 319/1s or /3s? I wouldn't bet on it. My guess is they will slap the livery on and hope no one notices. The reason I say this is that the EPs do not appear to have a "seam" which would indicate the presence of a replaceable slide in the tooling to slot in option components.


It was confirmed at the club event that they are tooling up to be able to represent the differences between the sub classes. The previous EP had the later cab doors & GRP lower fairing. How exactly they’re doing the tooling I don’t know, but it should be correct for the livery applied. 
 

Tom. 

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1 hour ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

On some photos of the prototype I totally agree with you about the roof dome. But looking at other photos (like below) I'd say they've got it close to spot on. 

 

 

There's no flat forward facing section on the roof dome even in that photo. The area is rather indistinct because of the livery, cant line and heavy shadow caused by the lighting.

 

Here's another photo of the same unit (002) showing the roof curvature better compared with the model. You can see that the roof curvature line rolls over in a rounded edge in to the face outline groove without a distinct wide vertical section. It's certainly not wider than the small panel above the door. The Farish transition section from roof to groove effort should be thinner and more rounded in that area:

 

compare.jpg.0b818aa9b793b9e8c668a2461fa7375c.jpg

 

 

However, there are some units that seem to have a less continuously rounded roof dome (possibly where it has collapsed a little or has been damaged) but they don't seem to have a flat front facing ledge as on the EP2. The area should be more rounded and is certainly not a thick or pronounced flat section as on the model.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, TomE said:


It was confirmed at the club event that they are tooling up to be able to represent the differences between the sub classes. The previous EP had the later cab doors & GRP lower fairing. How exactly they’re doing the tooling I don’t know, but it should be correct for the livery applied. 
 

 

Yep, they have said in the past (at trade/press events) that they will tool up to be able to produce all variants (sub-classes, versions, etc.,) of the locos and units they produce, even if they weren't going to manufacturer them all initially.

 

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13 hours ago, grahame said:

 

The phase 1 BREL York units (total 60) above 319013 (the first 13) were re-built by Wolverton in the late 90s as 319/2 (014-020 became 214-220) and 319/4 (021-060 became 421-460). I don't think there are any 319/1 (first of phase 2 ones) left now - all converted to other sub-classes or stored.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, bigP said:

There we go, thought there were quite a few /0s.  Thanks. 

 

The Northern 319/3 units are all converted from 319/1s.  Not sure if they have all of them though, or as you say some are stored.  

 

Here’s hoping Farish do both types then eh. Probably perfect you & London Bridge eh.

Perhaps even a White NSE 319/1 as the collectors club ltd model one year :o!

 

Paul.

The 319/1 units were all converted into 319/3 by (Govia) Thameslink Rail, starting around 1999 IIRC, 319163 being the first and being used as a test bed for the new livery (blue and yellow), emerging into service as 319363. It was at this time that the 319/1 units lost the first class compartment and the 319/0s received first class accommodation (as 319/2 and 319/4 units).

 

The majority of 319/2 units lost there pantographs for a while when in use for Brighton Express services (as they didn't use them), though I recall this was done on an 'as required' basis, rather than planned modifications. They were replaced when Thameslink started hiring some on a daily basis. They also have a difference in body side toilet area, with an extra small window on one side (as they only had one toilet after refurbishment).

 

The refurbished units used by Northern (and for a short time GTR) also had a difference window arrangement for the toilet area.

 

An increasing number of 319/3s are now stored, and I don't believe Northern got all of them. I think one is in the 769 programme.

 

12 hours ago, TomE said:

Surely this has to be prime club model territory!

 

4931703.jpg.f2053adcfa38cfb5aad4233f0cf96cb7.jpg

 

Tom. 

 

 

319364 and 319365 got this livery IIRC, named 'Transforming Blackfriars' and 'Transforming Farringdon' respectively. IIRC they also operated the last passenger service out of Moorgate, in that livery, before the route was shut to allow the extension of Farringdon's platforms.

 

On the subject of liveries, all the 319/0s had the dark grey NSE livery, and all the 319/1 units had the later light grey livery. 319021-060 were later repainted into the rather drab 'Thameslink' grey livery, however none of the 319/1s were given that livery. 

 

11 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

I had forgotten that one. You would have thought it would have been seared in my retinas. :jester:

 

So far the EPs shown appear to depict the original 319/0s which is fair enough as they are the more numerous. Will they revise them for the 319/1s or /3s? I wouldn't bet on it. My guess is they will slap the livery on and hope no one notices. The reason I say this is that the EPs do not appear to have a "seam" which would indicate the presence of a replaceable slide in the tooling to slot in option components.

 

I remember when the Blue Pullmans were at the EP stage, eagle-eyed viewers spotted a seam near the front and guess (correct it would appear) that this would allow for the easy addition of the revised front end with MU cables which finally came out last year.

 

The first EP (the really bad one) appears to be an attempt at a 319/1 and 319/3, the later one is the earlier 319/0, 319/2 and 319/4. I think the newer EP is much improved, but still has plenty of lesser errors around the cab. I could probably live with it in N Gauge though.

Edited by eatus-maximus
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4 hours ago, Stefen1988 said:

Another Detail that I see and that is Wrong are the Front Light Panels - look at the Prototype Pictures and then on the undecorated Model...

 

The light clusters look OK to me. What issue do you see?

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I think it may be that they appear to be fractionally taller than the horizontal grooves whereas on the prototype they appear to be the same height.

 

Of course the available size of the lights going in those hole may have necessitated this if it is a discrepancy.

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As an aside, the post privatisation Thameslink grey livery was known to us in the Control as Battleship Grey. Needless to say a list of Battleship names were drawn up and allocated to each unit.  

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26 minutes ago, bigP said:

RRP just went up £10,  now £299.95, so, up 3.5%

Not bad considering the 2F DBSO just went up 10%.

 

 

I expect the 319 will go through at least one more increase before it hits the shops! 

 

Tom.  

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On 08/02/2020 at 08:38, grahame said:

 

There's no flat forward facing section on the roof dome even in that photo. The area is rather indistinct because of the livery, cant line and heavy shadow caused by the lighting.

 

Here's another photo of the same unit (002) showing the roof curvature better compared with the model. You can see that the roof curvature line rolls over in a rounded edge in to the face outline groove without a distinct wide vertical section. It's certainly not wider than the small panel above the door. The Farish transition section from roof to groove effort should be thinner and more rounded in that area:

 

compare.jpg.0b818aa9b793b9e8c668a2461fa7375c.jpg

 

 

However, there are some units that seem to have a less continuously rounded roof dome (possibly where it has collapsed a little or has been damaged) but they don't seem to have a flat front facing ledge as on the EP2. The area should be more rounded and is certainly not a thick or pronounced flat section as on the model.

 

 

This image here:

 

https://www.picfair.com/pics/08817473-class-319

 

Shows Grahame's point perfectly I think.

 

Best


Scott

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23 hours ago, bigP said:

RRP just went up £10,  now £299.95, so, up 3.5%

Not bad considering the 2F DBSO just went up 10%.

 

Youch. Making the RevolutioN 321 look like a bargain in comparison. Guessing this will be around £255 in the box shifters then.

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57 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Youch. Making the RevolutioN 321 look like a bargain in comparison. Guessing this will be around £255 in the box shifters then.

 

It's not too far off at the discounted price, and I'd expect any future 321 runs to be comparable in price. I think the guys at Revolution have been pretty decent in honouring the original pricing given the switch in manufacturer etc. 

 

What it does make look like an absolute bargain was the original Pendolino run!

 

Tom. 

 

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2 hours ago, TomE said:

 

It's not too far off at the discounted price, and I'd expect any future 321 runs to be comparable in price. I think the guys at Revolution have been pretty decent in honouring the original pricing given the switch in manufacturer etc. 

 

What it does make look like an absolute bargain was the original Pendolino run!

 

Tom. 

 

 

With the 15% discount, that's circa £340?

 

An 11 car Poppy Pendolino was just shy of £300 at early bird prices, and I think that was slightly more expensive than the other versions...

 

That said, that was 2015; much water has passed underneath the bridge since then. But still...

Edited by scottystitch
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1 hour ago, scottystitch said:

With the 15% discount, that's circa £340?

 

The new RRP for the 319 after the 2020 increase is £299.95, so around £255 after discount. 

 

The 321 early bird price was £205, and the regular price is now £220 if I remember correctly, and those were set some time ago and haven't been subject to any increase. 

 

My 9 car Pendo was £250. 

 

1 hour ago, bigP said:

 

 

No no, what makes the RevolutioN Pendolino an absolute steal is this....

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/category/189/class-220-4-car-demu-220018-'dorset-voyager'-virgin-(revised/371-680

 

Yowza!

 

I hadn't seen that as I'm not in the market for another Voyager, but considering I think I paid around £90 for my XC version...….Yowza indeed (but spelt with an F, K, U, C, E & M.....)

 

Tom.   

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1 hour ago, bigP said:

 

 

No no, what makes the RevolutioN Pendolino an absolute steal is this....

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/category/189/class-220-4-car-demu-220018-'dorset-voyager'-virgin-(revised/371-680

 

Yowza!

OK they're having a laugh!

 

A quick look at other stuff shows a new livery diesel (GBRF CL60) to be 145 rrp, the most expensive coaching stock is 50 rrp, so 295 pounds for a 4 'car' train bought separately. Normal retail practice is to offer discounts for 'bundles', so by that metric we might expect 250 pounds for a 4 car train bought as a set, but they want 375 for the CL450 and 400 for the Voyager? I've no interest in either but I had my eye on the 319 and the CL150 in Northern livery, but I think that 100 pounds per vehicle is pushing the market a little to far.

 

Just means more money to spend with Dapol, Revolution, C-Rail, and ,hopefully, Kato.

 

John P

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12 minutes ago, TomE said:

 

The new RRP for the 319 after the 2020 increase is £299.95, so around £255 after discount. 

 

 

 

Tom.   

 

Yes. My own fault for quoting the wrong post, but I meant the Voyager would be £340ish after discount.

 

Best

 

Scott

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There does seem to be some growing inconsistencies and anomalies with the latest RRPs for 4-car units:

 

319 - £300

350 - £300

450 - £375

220 - £400

 

especially bearing in mind they aren't all new tooling. And some of the 2-car units (although not in stock) are listed at £290 and £300.

 

 

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