Charlie Strong Metals (and Watery Lane Sidings)

[Mol_PMB]

This is the one I need for my current layout:

 

This is the one I fancy as the centrepiece of a future layout. I’d probably have to make it work somehow. The practicality of lowering containers in stacks or onto wagons would be tricky though. 

[AlfaZagato]

Have you given thought to the old Airfix Throneycroft/Coles motor crane?  The kit that is paired with the Bedford/Queen Mary trailer combo?   That kit can be built into a surprisingly nice model.   All the shapes are right.   The detail is mostly lacking.   Listed as 1/76, as well.

[Adam]

10 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Have you given thought to the old Airfix Throneycroft/Coles motor crane?  The kit that is paired with the Bedford/Queen Mary trailer combo?   That kit can be built into a surprisingly nice model.   All the shapes are right.   The detail is mostly lacking.   Listed as 1/76, as well.

Agreed, though it’s a rather bigger crane and I think(?) the OP works in 7mm scale.

 

The rest of that set is more problematic - the Bedford tractor measures out as spot on. For H0. I’m not sure about the trailer.

 

Adam

[Barclay]

Langley's Ransomes & Rapier mobile diesel crane is a nice kit, but it's only 6 tons capacity, which may not be enough for serious scrap!

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Barclay

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Dundas, Peco/Wills or the old triang wagon might provide possibilities for the crane basics?

 

Mike.

[Ruston]

On 06/01/2022 at 21:56, AlfaZagato said:

Have you given thought to the old Airfix Throneycroft/Coles motor crane?  The kit that is paired with the Bedford/Queen Mary trailer combo?   That kit can be built into a surprisingly nice model.   All the shapes are right.   The detail is mostly lacking.   Listed as 1/76, as well.

It's not really what I'm after. It's a wartime thing and would be very old by the 1970s. I don't know if it would be able to take an electromagnet either.

 

On 07/01/2022 at 09:08, Barclay said:

Langley's Ransomes & Rapier mobile diesel crane is a nice kit, but it's only 6 tons capacity, which may not be enough for serious scrap!

I like those cranes. Again, really old, but I remember one into the 1990s at a yard in Rotherham.

 

On 07/01/2022 at 10:06, Enterprisingwestern said:

Dundas, Peco/Wills or the old triang wagon might provide possibilities for the crane basics?

I don't think I know the Triang wagon, Mike.

 

I can't get the Scotch Derrick idea out of my head. The one Mol posted is quite a large one, but they use two, one larger than the other, at C.F. Booths scrapyard at the moment. Mine would be quite a lot smaller than any of them but the one in Mol's picture has given me an idea as to how to fit one in. It's all stood on trestle towers, which would lift it off the ground enough that one leg could be on the far side of the railway track and one at the side (near end) of the new building. Rather than steel towers I'll use reinforced concrete blocks. I have seen one somewhere in a google search that is on blocks.

 

Sliding door opening/closing.

 

Why mess around with a motor and the associated wiring, power source, switch etc? It would be a whole load of faff and it would also involve microwitches to stop the motor from trying to force the door too much. Keep It Simple, Stupid!

 

Lego rack and pinion. A search of the loft produced just enough parts to fit this up. The shaft will poke through the roof and be made to look like a chimney. Turn it with fingers, no overload, no forcing anything - job done!

 

Trial-fit of roof.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Mol_PMB]

Genius use of Lego!

I'm glad my crane photo inspired the brain cells. As you say, they are rarely modelled but very typical of this period and type of industry.

[Mol_PMB]

Here's another view of the big Scotch Derrick that was at Manchester Docks 8 Pier from around 1965 to 1985. This is a later shot when the area was pretty much abandoned.

Photo by Philip Royle and it was posted on the MSC Facebook page recently, but also features in one of his two excellent photo album books of MSC photos. 

Although there aren't actually any railway trucks under the outriggers, they are certainly high enough for that to be possible, and I expect the idea was that road vehicles loaded with containers could drive underneath them. That would help to explain the stripy bollards protecting the support towers.

Note that there is also a stand for the end of the jib to rest on.

 

[AlfaZagato]

I suppose at this point, you already have a plan.    If you're still considering, why not have a Scotch Derrick at the fore of the layout?   If you have it positioned right, you could imply more yard 'off the table.'   Then you'd have you're derrick in full itself, while only modelling 1/3 of the space it works.

 

Admittedly, this plan leads to a tall, awkward set of objects at the front of your layout.   I think any notable crane will be adverse to access, though.

[Ruston]

On 07/01/2022 at 19:59, AlfaZagato said:

I suppose at this point, you already have a plan.    If you're still considering, why not have a Scotch Derrick at the fore of the layout?   If you have it positioned right, you could imply more yard 'off the table.'   Then you'd have you're derrick in full itself, while only modelling 1/3 of the space it works.

 

Admittedly, this plan leads to a tall, awkward set of objects at the front of your layout.   I think any notable crane will be adverse to access, though.

My plan is to have the crane house just far enough in front of the building so that a vehicle could be driven between it and the building. One leg will run parallel to the building and across the track, whilst the other runs parallel with the building end wall. That will give the 270 degree operating area and also keep everything far enough to the left so as not to get in the way of The Great Hand From The Sky during coupling/uncoupling. The legs and the jib will be almost the same length, giving a scale 40ft jib. That's the same as a 22RB and should neither overwhelm the scene, or look too puny.

 

Then again, I might just fork out for a Langley Models 22RB.

 

The building is nearing completion.

 

I pulled out the roof light frames that I had installed (previous pic) and made something that looks better. The roof vents are something else that I found in the loft. I'm pretty sure they are from a Hornby engine shed but have no idea how they got there. I've never bought such a thing.

I've another drain pipe to add, plus lamps over the doors, a handrail on the stairs and I'm going to attempt to add electrical conduit. The chimney also needs a cone on the top.

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

I think that's about it for the building. I turned a top for the chimney from a length of aluminium bar and made the conduit and junction boxes, and the handrail for the stairs, from Evergreen plastic rod. The light above the door is from the old building. I think it was from Plastruct.

 

I added a notice board that was in my bits box. The track infill here has been pulled up and needs to be replaced. After that all that remains is to settle the building in properly to get rid of the gap between it and the ground.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Mol_PMB]

That has all come together very nicely (and very quickly too!). Superb work. Now I look forward to it being buried under a mountain of scrap!

[Ruston]

A very rough mock-up of the derrick.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Mol_PMB]

Superb! Make it so...

(If it were me, I'd be thinking a custom etch)

[Sandhole]

Just now, Mol_PMB said:

Superb! Make it so...

(If it were me, I'd be thinking a custom etch)

I can see why.
Bloody Hell, Dave, that's a scene stealer. Works perfectly!
Chris.

[Ruston]

52 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Superb! Make it so...

(If it were me, I'd be thinking a custom etch)

I would but am unable to design such a thing, so I'll have to make it my more basic methods and from plastic.

[Mol_PMB]

I may be able to help if that would be useful...

[Ruston]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

I may be able to help if that would be useful...

Thanks. I'll have to see how I get on and come up with an actual overall design. It really could do with being nearer to the track for appearance sake. The only way to do this would be to have the leg that is at the near end of the building going into the building. I suppose this could be feasible. The building and crane could have been built at the same time and the building could have been almost built around the leg and the leg anchored to the floor, or a large block, somewhere inside. I can put another, perhaps even older, building at this end to give a reason for having to put the leg inside the new building. The idea behind this area of the yard, and the building, is that it was some sort of engineering works that closed and was bought by Charlie Strong, who uses the building as an office/store/workshop. The derrick was recommissioned and an electromagnet fitted to load scrap into railway wagons.

 

From where it is currently placed, the jib isn't really long enough so I need to increase it by about 30mm. It appears that a lot of these things have a jib of much greater length than the legs, or height of the mast.

[Ruston]

I've had a go at making part of the jib by pantograph milling 20 thou cartridge brass. I missed a cross piece that goes at 90 degrees to the main rails off the pattern, so that needs to be modified. It's gone a little wobbly in places but this one was just a test piece to see if it was at all possible. I have never attempted to make anything so fine before. I usually make patterns to 4:1 but the size of the finished piece meant 2:1 was as big as I could go. I even had to turn down the end of an old stylus and use it without a bobbin because I don't have one for 2:1 and have never even set the machine to that ratio before. I suppose you could say it's all a bit experimental.

I need to make a pattern for the top and bottom parts of the jib, and one more pattern for the legs. All 8 pieces of the legs will be identical, so only one pattern is required. There will also be a pattern to make for the mast.

 

I'll probably mill the legs from plasticard as it's far quicker to mill and easier to assemble. It's not as if the legs will actually support anything on the model. In fact I may make the entire thing from plasticard. Once the legs and jib are assembled they should be strong enough as it's not going to be a working model.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Personally I can't see a Scotch Derek lifting much!

 

Mike.

[Ruston]

On 12/01/2022 at 16:02, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

Personally I can't see a Scotch Derek lifting much!

 

Mike.

Jesus Christ! Are they the Scots version of Village People? No, don't even answer that. Let's just try to pretend that wasn't posted on my thread.

 

Right...

 

I've studied a few more photos and there were two basic problems with the card mock-up.

It was too big - the backlegs were almost as large as the jib, which isn't the case in most prototypes.

The backlegs and mast/racewheel base should be connected in a triangle at ground level, or at the top of any bases that the derrick is mounted on. The latter was impossible with the original position of the bases, one being round the side of the building from the other, and one being on the opposite side of the railway track, unless the bases were higher than anything that would pass under the connecting part (sleeper).

 

The square, placed on the baseboard, shows the positions that the bases of the backlegs and mast will now assume. I have made one backleg and the jib. Both are 30 thou. Plastikard.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[moore43grm]

2 hours ago, Ruston said:

It was too big - the backlegs were almost as large as the jib, which isn't the case in most prototypes.

The backlegs and mast/racewheel base should be connected in a triangle at ground level, or at the top of any bases that the derrick is mounted on

  something like this :

Pond Quarry on part of the Brookes Ltd system at Lightcliffe

 

[Ruston]

I should have gone for a Coles, or a 22RB. This thing takes up a lot of space!

I've set it out as an equilateral triangle. I don't have a plan view of one of these things but it seemed to make sense to have each leg of the base being the same length. With the backlegs set up, and the racewheel/slewing ring in place, I can now take the final measurement to allow for the mast to be built.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Mol_PMB]

It looks great! I am inspired to get on and build the one needed for the backscene on my current layout!