Charlie Strong Metals (and Watery Lane Sidings)

[Ruston]

Mast constructed and in place. It is at the moment still removable to allow for further work to be done. The jib is held, temporarily, by a length of bent wire and a piece of nylon thread.

The next step will be to make the works, which includes some gear wheels, which will be partially visible even when the cabin is built around them. I have no idea how to make them and this may be a job for etched parts. The pulleys and blocks ought not to be much of a problem.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Mol_PMB]

That looks superb! Great work.

[SteveyDee68]

7 hours ago, Ruston said:

Mast constructed and in place. It is at the moment still removable to allow for further work to be done. The jib is held, temporarily, by a length of bent wire and a piece of nylon thread.

 

The crane is superb, but I have to comment upon how well the backscene works with the modelled buildings - the colour density works really well. I sort of recognise the backscene elements, but am not sure. Is this an off the shelf product, or adapted/bespoke?

 

Steve S

[Ruston]

11 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

The crane is superb, but I have to comment upon how well the backscene works with the modelled buildings - the colour density works really well. I sort of recognise the backscene elements, but am not sure. Is this an off the shelf product, or adapted/bespoke?

 

Steve S

It's a Peco backscene, SK45 Old Industrial Centre, and cost £1.99 at my local model shop. They must have been making these since Adam were a lad and I guess they're a bit old-fashioned and out of favour these days. I thought it suited what I was doing and, to be honest, I couldn't be arsed to take photos and make something up to print myself.

[SteveyDee68]

Well, old hat or not, I think it works perfectly!

 

Steve S

[Ruston]

I've stuck some rivets and slapped some paint onto it.

I've ordered some magnets that can be fixed to the floor and the crane bases so that it always locates in the same place and if it is accidentally caught by a hand or sleeve it will detach before being damaged.

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 minutes ago, Ruston said:

I've stuck some rivets and slapped some paint onto it.

I've ordered some magnets that can be fixed to the floor and the crane bases so that it always locates in the same place and if it is accidentally caught by a hand or sleeve it will detach before being damaged.

 

 

If you put a screw head in the baseboard and the magnet in the crane bases you might get away with catching the crane and it breaking loose, 2 magnets will be too solid IMHO, also magnets in the baseboard will attract all sorts of bits and bobs, swarf etc.

 

Mike.

[Ruston]

16 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

If you put a screw head in the baseboard and the magnet in the crane bases you might get away with catching the crane and it breaking loose, 2 magnets will be too solid IMHO, also magnets in the baseboard will attract all sorts of bits and bobs, swarf etc.

 

Mike.

I guess that it all depends on the size of magnets. I already use this method of locating buildings and the supports for the large gantry crane, using neodymium magnets of just 3mm dia. and 2mm thickness. Each support has two with a corresponding two in the fixed bases. There is enough pull to keep everything in place and to resist light knocks but they give way if I'm properly ham-fisted.

[Ruston]

I said that it isn't to be a working model but the thought occurred to me that it would at least have to be pose-able, even if this was simply a case of manipulating the jib. Of course if the jib is to move at all then it follows that the rigging must be capable of movement or it would sag in one direction and not allow movement in the other according to the position of the jib. This set me thinking that as I have to make the pulleys and rigging work for the derricking movement then I may as well have a go at powering it, and adding the hoist and slewing movements, too.

 

The idea is to have a hollow tube fixed in the bottom of the mast. The tube continues through the base and baseboard and is free to rotate in them. A bevel gear, fixed to the tube, meshes with a bevel gear on a gearbox for slewing. Ropes (cotton thread?) for hoist and derricking run through the tube, up the mast and to their positions on the hook and jib respectively and are wound onto tubes that are fitted to other gearboxes. I'm not going to invest too much time and money in this - it will either work or it won't  - and so I'm using what gearboxes and motors I have lying around already. They will be glued to a thick styrene base.

The winding drums will need discs at the ends to keep the rope from coming off. The power source will be AA batteries and the controls will be three centre-sprung DPDT switches. I'll just have to be very careful not to overwind.

 

[Ruston]

Trial fit.

 

The tube needs to be shortened and some guides made up so the ropes don't have to rub against the lip of the tube, or turn a sudden 90 degrees. The motor units are glued and the base will be fixed with double sided sticky tape for trials. If successful it will be screwed in place.

[Barclay]

Put a electromagnet on it and you can empty the wagons for real !

[Ruston]

On 19/01/2022 at 09:08, Barclay said:

Put a electromagnet on it and you can empty the wagons for real !

One big problem... The scrap wagon parts will all be plastic.

 

I did some testing, on the bench, with mixed results. The idea and the design itself work.  The gearmotor unit for slewing was sold as 300rpm and I bought it for possible use in powering a locomotive. Even at just 1.5v, from a single AA battery, it turns too quickly and will give a full rotation in around one second. Flipping the switch on and off as quickly as I could gave around 30 degrees rotation, which means that it's not as controllable as I would like and if it was to be properly working and loading it would be impossible to control properly.

 

The unit with the right angle drive ran at a nice controllable speed but doesn't have enough oomph at the same voltage and failed to reliably wind in the rope, even with nothing attached. Admittedly it was pulling the rope 90 degrees out of the tube and there were no pulleys, so it was rubbing against various parts of the mast etc. I haven't tested the other unit yet.

 

At the moment I am considering having a wheel on the facia of the baseboard and a rod to the bevel gears for slewing. That will give absolute control in speed and accuracy.

 

Other work involves replacing the track infill and using filler to bring the concrete right up to the rails. I never did this previously as the old building covered this up.

One of the magnets for locating the derrick can also be seen here.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[magmouse]

I love your concrete textures in that last photo - cracked, battered, stained and patched. Even the magnet feels like a bit of leftover inset metalwork for some long-forgotten purpose, but the edges still polished by the vehicles driving over it. All very evocative.

[Ruston]

Pulleys and things.

 

I was wondering how to make the large gearwheel and then I found a small plastic spoked wheel, in the loft. It looked about the right diameter and so I took a nylon gear and milled out the centre. I cut the rim off the plastic wheel and glued it into the gear. It's not a strong joint but it doesn't have to be as it's purely cosmetic.

I've made some pulleys from brass rod. The remaining pulley will fit between the bridle (below), which also needs a frame to hold the pulley and to terminate the derricking rope.

All of these brass parts will be removed for painting or blackening before final assembly.

[Sandhole]

19 hours ago, Ruston said:

Pulleys and things.

 

I was wondering how to make the large gearwheel and then I found a small plastic spoked wheel, in the loft. It looked about the right diameter and so I took a nylon gear and milled out the centre. I cut the rim off the plastic wheel and glued it into the gear. It's not a strong joint but it doesn't have to be as it's purely cosmetic.

I've made some pulleys from brass rod. The remaining pulley will fit between the bridle (below), which also needs a frame to hold the pulley and to terminate the derricking rope.

All of these brass parts will be removed for painting or blackening before final assembly.

That beast is looking damn good Dave.
Chris.

[Ruston]

3 hours ago, Sandhole said:

That beast is looking damn good Dave.
Chris.

Cheers, Chris. It is looking OK but as for it working... It's not.

 

There are no motors at the moment but I rigged the derricking rope and pulleys and pulled the rope by hand. Several problems have shown themselves.

 

Firstly, the pulleys aren't made as precisely as they need to be; the groove isn't as deep as it needs to be for reliable operation.

 

Second, the jib is too light. It doesn't keep everything in tension properly and when I let the rope run out, the pulleys don't always run free, which allows the rope to slack and jump one or more pulleys.

 

Third, the "rope" looks rubbish. The cotton thread is hairy. I experimented with soaking it in thinned acrylic paint, which binds all the little hairs but makes the rope too stiff to run properly around the pulleys.

 

I'm beginning to think that the juice isn't worth the squeeze, as far as making it work is concerned. I may as well tighten the joint at the foot of the jib so there is a lot of resistance and hang a weight off the derricking rope, under the baseboard. This will allow limited movement for posing the jib and is all that it really needs.

 

I have started work on the cabin.

Having the derricking rope rigged shows that the bridle needs to be slightly longer. As it is, if a line is drawn between the jib head pulley and the downmast pulley, it would hit the pulley on the bridle.

[Sasquatch]

That's an awesome model Dave. A nice, good scratch build to really get your teeth into.

 

In the US we have beading stores which I discovered as Mrs. S. used to make her own jewelry. It's amazing some of the stuff a modeler can find a use for in a store like that. They're bound to have a very fine nylon or silk cord that should work for your "rope". There must be stores like that in the UK or try searching eBay. (Fine nylon coated metal beading wire makes excellent wire for fences and guys etc BTW).

 

Another thing worth trying is soaking the cotton in WD40.

 

Regards Shaun. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Sasquatch

[magmouse]

For fine, hairless thread, I would suggest looking at the stuff ship modellers use for rigging - available in a variety of thicknesses. There are a few online stores that sell this, but I often use https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk. Search for ‘rigging thread’ - they have sizes down to 0.2mm. If you want to represent steel rope, you might be able to stain it a dark grey/black.

[Ruston]

3 hours ago, magmouse said:

For fine, hairless thread, I would suggest looking at the stuff ship modellers use for rigging - available in a variety of thicknesses. There are a few online stores that sell this, but I often use https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk. Search for ‘rigging thread’ - they have sizes down to 0.2mm. If you want to represent steel rope, you might be able to stain it a dark grey/black.

Thanks. I'll have a go with that.

[Ruston]

I have ordered some rigging thread. I did some more work on the pulleys and they now work properly but I won't be motorising the derrick. There's really no point in doing so as there's no practical need for it to work since it won't be actually lifting anything, or loading wagons. The thread will still go through the tube to the underside of the baseboard but I'll wind the drums by hand and the slewing will be done my manipulating the jib.

 

I rigged it again, using cotton thread, to which will be spliced the rigging thread, once it arrives, and I'll pull it through and fix and finish it.

The rest is just about done and needs only a coat of matt varnish and some weathering, apart from a few details, such as an access ladder to the cabin. And not forgetting an electromagnet or grab.

 

The yard needs to be populated with scrap, starting with a wagon in the process of being chopped up. There is a photo of a 16-ton mineral, on Paul Bartlett's site, that has had the body already cut off and the underframe is lying upside down with various parts being cut off. My version of this will start with a Hornby 27-ton iron ore tippler. I chose this because it has decent underframe detail and won't take much work to get it looking like I want it to.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston

[ColinK]

Goodwood Scenics have packs of scrap (no connection other than customer)

[F-UnitMad]

4 hours ago, Ruston said:

The rest is just about done

In the time you've rebuilt the building on the end, got the door opening, planned & built the derrick crane, I think I've managed to look at my layout twice, start painting a couple of figures, and managed a 30 minute operating session...        

Great modelling as ever. I do enjoy this thread

[cctransuk]

On 21/01/2022 at 18:56, Ruston said:

.... the jib is too light. It doesn't keep everything in tension properly and when I let the rope run out, the pulleys don't always run free, which allows the rope to slack and jump one or more pulleys ......

 

I solve the light jib problem on cranes by incorporating a spring of phosphor bronze strip between the jib and the body.

 

CJI.

[Sandhole]

5 hours ago, Ruston said:

I have ordered some rigging thread. I did some more work on the pulleys and they now work properly but I won't be motorising the derrick. There's really no point in doing so as there's no practical need for it to work since it won't be actually lifting anything, or loading wagons. The thread will still go through the tube to the underside of the baseboard but I'll wind the drums by hand and the slewing will be done my manipulating the jib.

 

I rigged it again, using cotton thread, to which will be spliced the rigging thread, once it arrives, and I'll pull it through and fix and finish it.

The rest is just about done and needs only a coat of matt varnish and some weathering, apart from a few details, such as an access ladder to the cabin. And not forgetting an electromagnet or grab.

 

The yard needs to be populated with scrap, starting with a wagon in the process of being chopped up. There is a photo of a 16-ton mineral, on Paul Bartlett's site, that has had the body already cut off and the underframe is lying upside down with various parts being cut off. My version of this will start with a Hornby 27-ton iron ore tippler. I chose this because it has decent underframe detail and won't take much work to get it looking like I want it to.

As usual, this is another work of art Dave.
Regards,
Chris.

[Ruston]

Thanks, chaps.

 

The jib now sits properly and tension is maintained by the 3g weight of the scrap magnet.

I can see there that I missed a bit when painting and the closure of one of the links isn't right. I'll sort that out when I replace the rigging and add the electrical cable. The magnet is milled from brass, using the same patterns as I used for the one on the gantry crane, so it only took about 15 mins to make from start to finish.

 

On 24/01/2022 at 12:28, ColinK said:

Goodwood Scenics have packs of scrap (no connection other than customer)

I had a look but I much prefer to make my own. This part of the yard is supposed to be like a proper old fashioned scrapyard, where entire vehicles and pieces of plant, or even locomotives, would sit for years surrounded by piles of stuff and slowly being enveloped by the mounds of scrap of other things that are being cut up.

 

For a start there's this old Aveling steam roller and some lengths of narrow gauge Jubilee track.

I'll chop up some spare iron ore tippler bodies and toss a few spare brake levers and such like, from Parkside kits, into the pile of scrapped wagon stuff. I've sent off for some vac brake cylinders and I'll order some vac pipes to have lying around. I remember there being loads of these lying about C.F. Booths when they were cutting wagons up. As for wheelsets, some people seem to use any old rubbish for a scrapyard scene, usually some ancient Hornby or Triang stuff with pizza cutter flanges, which look terrible. I'm thinking of getting a few sets of Gibson P4 wagon wheels and replacing the axles with something that looks like it actually came out of an axlebox, instead of pinpoints, which is another thing that lets down some scrapyard scenes.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ruston