Locomotive Kits - Still Made?

[Guest WM183]

Hi folks.

Something I've been thinking about as of late is the locomotives I have purchased, and how I get them. I own a pair of Pannier tanks, a 56xx tank, a small prairie, and an Ivatt tank, all made by Bachmann, and costing on average 40 to 50 pounds each. For 50 pounds, I get a locomotive that needs some detailing, perhaps, but which runs nicely out of the box and looks the part. However, all things being equal - i'd rather build kits, I suppose? I am very much a model builder first and an operator second; for me, the joy is in building and detailing a kit. Every wagon i own has been kit built, and there seems to be no shortage of wagon kits these days. However, does anyone still make kits for locomotives such as 57 or 8750 panniers, 45 prairies, and so on, or are these now pretty much (etched chassis aside) the province of RTR? I know kits are made for some more uncommon types that havent yet been made as RTR models, but for more common types, is RTR now the only real game in town?

Pondering Panniers and Prairies,

Amanda

[Denbridge]

Brassmasters do the Finney pannier and large prairie. The old M&L pannier and saddle tanks are with Alan Gibson, who keeps threatening to release them again. SE Finecast still do the old wills kits. As for small  prairies, hopefully the Mitchell kits will return one day.

[michl080]

Amanda, in 7mm scale, there are lots of kit suppliers like finney7, djparkins, , connoiseur, ragsonemodels and probably a lot more. However, these are etched brass. Is this a problem? I don'T think so.  As you say, building is the the REAL indulgence.

 

Having all these wonderful kits was the major reason for me to switch from H0 to 7mm scale.

 

Michael

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, WM183 said:

... but for more common types, is RTR now the only real game in town?

Even if there is no kit currently available new, second hand supplies are still possible:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/370485/wills_kits_f134_po_gwr_large_prairie_6100_metal_kit_body_only_pre_owned_like_new_still_factory_se/stockdetail.aspx

 

Scratchbuilding is always an option. But you must be aware where this leads.

 

"Having become dissatisfied with all available manufactured model railway products, I set out to find some workable flint with which to shape a digging tool blade suitable for mining the necessary ores..."

[ThePipersSon]

The Mitchell small prairie is available under the Churchward Models label, from Phoenix Paints. Apparently in 4mm or 7mm.

 

Tom

 

[Denbridge]

5 minutes ago, ThePipersSon said:

The Mitchell small prairie is available under the Churchward Models label, from Phoenix Paints. Apparently in 4mm or 7mm.

 

Tom

 

That is his original version. It is inferior to his later kits which are currently unavailable. It does make into a nice model, but from memory there were a few problems building both the body and chassis. 

[Steamport Southport]

A list of GWR kits are here.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits.html

 

Unfortunately for quite a lot of them you'll be having to look for second hand examples as they haven't been available for years.

 

 

Jason

[Siberian Snooper]

If you want the Gibson kits you need to make your interest known to Colin who now owns the range, when he gets to around 10 he does a run. No money upfront. There's a place on the website to do this.

 

Sorry no link at this time.

 

 

[30368]

Hi Amanda,

I have always found Alan Gibson (Colin) SEFinecast (Dave) very helpful. You may wish to consider Nucast Partnership which are updating and re-releasing the Nu-Cast kits. This is a joint venture - Branchlines and SEFincast. I built their C2X kit last year and very good it was too.

 

Without wishing to patronise you or stir up controversy, a whitemetal kit with a brass chassis kit is a good way to start building loco's. That is how I started. It is really rewarding but generally more expensive than ready to run.

 

Good luck!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[Denbridge]

2 minutes ago, 30368 said:

Hi Amanda,

I have always found Alan Gibson (Colin) SEFinecast (Dave) very helpful. You may wish to consider Nucast Partnership which are updating and re-releasing the Nu-Cast kits. This is a joint venture - Branchlines and SEFincast. I built their C2X kit last year and very good it was too.

 

Without wishing to patronise you or stir up controversy, a whitemetal kit with a brass chassis kit is a good way to start building loco's. That is how I started. It is really rewarding but generally more expensive than ready to run.

 

Good luck!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Oh yeah, forgot about the ex nucast kits. Especially since I've just recently bought saddle and pannier 2021s .

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Even if there is no kit currently available new, second hand supplies are still possible:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/370485/wills_kits_f134_po_gwr_large_prairie_6100_metal_kit_body_only_pre_owned_like_new_still_factory_se/stockdetail.aspx

 

Scratchbuilding is always an option. But you must be aware where this leads.

 

"Having become dissatisfied with all available manufactured model railway products, I set out to find some workable flint with which to shape a digging tool blade suitable for mining the necessary ores..."

 

Are they still there? Looked at them a few times.

 

A bit overpriced IMO seeing as you can get a new one with an etched chassis for £89.50 direct from SE Finecast.

 

 

 

Jason

[Guest WM183]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

Hi Amanda,

I have always found Alan Gibson (Colin) SEFinecast (Dave) very helpful. You may wish to consider Nucast Partnership which are updating and re-releasing the Nu-Cast kits. This is a joint venture - Branchlines and SEFincast. I built their C2X kit last year and very good it was too.

 

Without wishing to patronise you or stir up controversy, a whitemetal kit with a brass chassis kit is a good way to start building loco's. That is how I started. It is really rewarding but generally more expensive than ready to run.

 

Good luck!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Hello, 

Why would it be patronising at all? I think building a whitemetal kit with a brass chassis would be a very good next exercise for me, so I'd say you're exactly right.

[30368]

Hi Amanda,

 

Just being cautious! Hope that you have a go and please ask for help if you need it, there are many knowledgeable loco builders on this site.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

[5050]

If you are wanting a Pannier, the Branchlines/SEFinecast 16XX is a great place to start with a well fitting whitemetal body and an etched NS chassis by Justin of Rhymney Models.  Add a High Level gearbox, decent motor and wheels to choice and you're sorted

Edited October 21, 2019 by 5050

[Mallard60022]

Just a thought, you could make a start and use a Comet Chassis kit that goes under the old Mainline Pannier body IIRC. It may well have been updated to fit the Bachman Pannier(s)? That would give you the chance to try out the soldered chassis ideas first off and the fettling/mods to a reasonably shaped and detailed plastic body? Easily done in 3/4 hours (not really including painting the chassis as that needs to harden off); for that add an hour the following day to complete the model.

Then you can do a full metal kit or cobble a 'kit' together from various sources (body/chassis and wheels/motor/GBox). 

However, Dave at SE Finecast will set you up with a 16XX (as 5050 just said) with everything you need,  apart from paint and identity plates and it will all be fitting together nicely as you do it.

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, WM183 said:

Hi folks.

Something I've been thinking about as of late is the locomotives I have purchased, and how I get them. I own a pair of Pannier tanks, a 56xx tank, a small prairie, and an Ivatt tank, all made by Bachmann, and costing on average 40 to 50 pounds each. For 50 pounds, I get a locomotive that needs some detailing, perhaps, but which runs nicely out of the box and looks the part. However, all things being equal - i'd rather build kits, I suppose? I am very much a model builder first and an operator second; for me, the joy is in building and detailing a kit. Every wagon i own has been kit built, and there seems to be no shortage of wagon kits these days. However, does anyone still make kits for locomotives such as 57 or 8750 panniers, 45 prairies, and so on, or are these now pretty much (etched chassis aside) the province of RTR? I know kits are made for some more uncommon types that havent yet been made as RTR models, but for more common types, is RTR now the only real game in town?

Pondering Panniers and Prairies,

Amanda

 

Amanda

 

There are still a few of us building kits, at the moment I am building a Southeastern Finecast SR  P class, I am converting a K's GWR 14xx  and a K's SR Adams Radial tank to EM gauge by widening the existing chassis and swapping the Romford axles. both these kits were bought ready built. And at the weekend bought a Stephen Poole GWR 54xx  the chassis has been built to 00 gauge, the body mainly not started, missing coupling rods and crank pin bosses. Has a Mashima motor with a flywheel and Branchline motor mount and gears. I buy most things second hand and there are some very good bargains to be had,

 

The dearest of the last 3 kits I bought was £30 which included an extra motor, I tend to buy gear boxes new and the odd motor, but everything else comes from a parts and spares collection I have built up over the years, you would be surprised what you find by keeping your eyes open, for instance a Hobby Holidays chassis building jig for £50.

 

As for who makes what, 57xx panniers and 45xx Prairies are available by buying old unbuilt kits (both are quite common) sell off the chassis, motors and wheels. Comet do chassis for both, High Level do a 57xx (I have one and they are excellent) Chris at High Leven has a new range of small can motors including a coreless motor, and the High Level gearboxes are up there with the best and seems to have a wide selection of types and styles

 

A long winded way of saying yes plenty of us still build kits

[Barclay]

Quite agree with all the above. Very little point buying a brand new toy train, however good it is, because it's no fun at all!

I recently put this old thing together with an ancient Triang-Hornby body, much modified, on a Comet chassis. It's nowhere near as good looking as a Bachman loco but the construction gave me a great deal of pleasure.

 

 

[Guest WM183]

Out of curiosity, would 16xx panniers have found much use in the valleys in South Wales?  

[Mallard60022]

54 minutes ago, WM183 said:

Out of curiosity, would 16xx panniers have found much use in the valleys in South Wales?  

Yes.  I've got shed allocations for several periods from 1958 to 1963/4 if you are looking at somewhere specific (as have loads of people with appropriate ABC Locoshed Books from Ian Allen at the time). I'm happy to let you know what's what. Not sure if there is a source on line having had a quick look just now.

Phil

Edited October 22, 2019 by Mallard60022

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

Quite agree with all the above. Very little point buying a brand new toy train, however good it is, because it's no fun at all!

I recently put this old thing together with an ancient Triang-Hornby body, much modified, on a Comet chassis. It's nowhere near as good looking as a Bachman loco but the construction gave me a great deal of pleasure.

 

 

 

I bought a Mainline 57xx which had a High Level chassis added under it, I did not have the fun building it but a stunning piece of work by someone on a far better detailed body.

 

For me though buying an old K's kit, using paint stripper / caustic acid to both strip the paint and degrade the glue. Then rebuilding it to (hopefully) a higher standard, is far more satisfying. New wheels motor and gearbox usually are a must, plus a new etched chassis completes the update.

 

With some older kits like the K's 14xx and some older Wills, which were designed to fit RTR chassis may need the scale chassis or the footplate altering, due either to design flaws or the need to fit a RTR chassis block) 

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yes.  I've got shed allocations for several periods from 1958 to 1963/4 if you are looking at somewhere specific (as have loads of people with appropriate ABC Locoshed Books from Ian Allen at the time). I'm happy to let you know what's what. Not sure if there is a source on line having had a quick look just now.

Phil

Llanelly (87F) had more than a dozen allocated there at times; about half worked from the sub-depot at Burry Port, dealing with shunting Burry Port yard and working coal trains on the BP&GVR. The rest worked on the L&MMR line to Cross Hands (later cut back to Cynheidre), and covered some 'targets' around the former docks lines.

[AJCT]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yes.  I've got shed allocations for several periods from 1958 to 1963/4 if you are looking at somewhere specific (as have loads of people with appropriate ABC Locoshed Books from Ian Allen at the time). I'm happy to let you know what's what. Not sure if there is a source on line having had a quick look just now.

Phil

 

You could have a look at  http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=1600&type=S&loco=1600

Use the blue arrows to work your way through the class.  Beware of the 2 (1646 and 1649) which ended up in the north of Scotland !

 

HTH.

 

Alasdair

[Guest WM183]

Thanks guys! My period will be 1950 or so, give or take 1 or 2 years, so I guess I am a bit early for a 16xx. I do have a pair of panniers though, one which I've already detailed, and I think a finescale EM chassis would make shine. Comet and High Level both make 57xx / 8750 chassis kits? Which one might give a better result, or if equal, might be better for a beginner? Ive build lots of brass kits for wagons, but not a loco chassis yet.

[Denbridge]

18 hours ago, 5050 said:

If you are wanting a Pannier, the Branchlines/SEFinecast 16XX is a great place to start with a well fitting whitemetal body and an etched NS chassis by Justin of Rhymney Models.  Add a High Level gearbox, decent motor and wheels to choice and you're sorted

Though , of course, the 16xx would only be suitable for BR era layouts.

[Barclay]

1 hour ago, WM183 said:

Thanks guys! My period will be 1950 or so, give or take 1 or 2 years, so I guess I am a bit early for a 16xx. I do have a pair of panniers though, one which I've already detailed, and I think a finescale EM chassis would make shine. Comet and High Level both make 57xx / 8750 chassis kits? Which one might give a better result, or if equal, might be better for a beginner? Ive build lots of brass kits for wagons, but not a loco chassis yet.

The Comet kit is quite straightforward. I haven't built the High Level one but their kits are very good. Expect it to be more detailed, more complex, but very well designed and with excellent instructions. I think it is designed for the Mainline/Bachman body.