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Where does our interest lie in the 2021 Hornby Range?


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It’s the Ruston for me.  Definitely the Rowntrees one, I’ll probably end up with the York civil engineers one as well.  There’s two Cumbrian PO wagons, so they’ll follow me home as well.  I’ve just finished repainting an 08 as 08715 in blue, so it’s not helping having it released in orange as well.

 

The 4&6 wheel coaches, I model a fictional preserved railway and having researched, I’ve been surprised at the number of NBR and GNR bodies still lurking about, so I suspect one or two of those will join the fleet.  On a related note, there’s currently a pair of the old S&DJR bodies and most of a SR CCT on the bench, to create something that follows the preserved prototype and look a bit different.

 

Owain

 

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20 hours ago, Wheatley said:

but a good scrap always attracts a crowd. 


I confess that is really my only interest, and I do have a good chuckle at how ‘negatively excited’ some people can get about some of these things.

 

Actually, there is a bit more to it than that: it’s interesting to see what the biggest player, in the most popular format is up to, because it gives some clue as the the overall state of the commercial side of the hobby (too much cut-throat competition to be sustainable, would be my take on that one, a danger of a remake of 1964).

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Its nice to see that not only I follow the hits and interest on threads and the speed at which they grow as a measure of the possible interest of models that are released. Sometimes this can be due to the controversial nature of items - the issue of duplication being a regular feature that can cause such interest. Hornby's idea of generic pregrouping stock hits the same territory that Hattons were looking into. I can't see the same ideas of withdrawal of support for the retailer being an issue over this. Hatton's had theirs announced beforehand and if anything the competition here can be a good force for the area as it can allow support for both products as people buy both to allow greater variations. 

 

The Ruston diesel is a nice touch. The small loco is a lovely novelty and the York pair will be popular. Yet, this is a follow up to what has been announced before. The P2 is another such development when everyone realised that the A4 style variant would follow at some point. Now its here, although there is plenty of spin used saying the model is newly tooled. It is clear it will be making use of parts like cab, tender, chassis to allow the next engines to be done. Yes a new body has been tooled and detail variations are included but this is a continuation of design-clever in its best form as its clearly been planned ahead. The W1 also makes a return - although Hornby here could have the usual problem of 1st release followed up quickly by the second causing a flood onto the market. This sometimes has caused a number of engines to sit on shelves. The best examples of this recently being K1 and Q6, but here, the W1 in BR green is essentially a follow up due to high demand. A good sign for a company needing cashflow. 

 

The diesel and electric range does look good for cashflow too. The many class 66s being churned out are going down very well and the livery selections allow for popular choices to be done but also ones that can show support for some individuals rights. Box ticked for Hornby being inclusive and supporting the wider industry and society. Other favourites such as the Hornby class 60 also feature and GBRf in the range, happy to let modellers get engines in their liveries to follow the success of the company. The Mk. 4 stock following the class 91, is also another defence of Hornby's previous catalogue and allows this range to be completed. 

 

In other areas, Southern coaching stock features, where Bachmann and Hornby are in competition but again can effectively enhance each others range. The sector is bound to be popular and in demand, but other re-runs of catalogue staples of things such as West Country and BoB, are absent and thus demand in this interest can switch to stock. The venerable Terrier, one product Hornby was quick to defend also features prominently including the one that ended up on the Western region. Sticking with stock, the Mk. 1 range expands a little and I expect to see Hornby gradually increase this and undercut Bachmann. 

Hornby have announced a range this year that seems to be more stable and focused. The supply issues forcing a range more on new production that can be made rather than an enhanced catalogue with some familiar favourites.  Yes this might see some defending of borders but this is only going to become more common with the amount of new companies entering the market. As others have mentioned Hornby could move to make more units but the choice of these and the standard that many new expect at the top end could be a challenge for Hornby. Some medium spec models at length like the 800 IEP are an area that Hornby have moved into well so could class 180 feature at some point? Or a Hornby Voyager rather than a 1st gen cross country unit instead. Its clear now that the market is getting split into three main popular areas; BR transition, current privitisation, novelty engines (including early steam and pregrouping). Hornby thus have several engines that fit all three areas and as a result this range can allow consolidation of funds and capital so that we might hope for something more imaginative by Hornby in the future. 

Edited by The Black Hat
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For me, it’s the Southern BLV and possibly a look at the generic 4 wheelers as GW Soth Wales miners workmen's stock.  I am appalled at some of the steam era wagons, inexcusable!

Edited by The Johnster
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15 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

For me, it’s the Southern BLV and possibly a look at the generic 4 wheelers as GW Soth Wales miners workmen's stock.  I am appalled at some of the steam era wagons, inexcusable!

Hornby was criticised some years ago for the weakness of its range of wagons. After a bit of effort to improve matters, things seem to have regressed.

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I'm not really interested!  I thought the days of generic models were long gone and it is dispiriting to see Hattons and Hornby going yah boo sucks at one another over their four-wheelers.  It's all very well to see a proliferation of liveries but I've been around for long enough to learn how to use a paintbrush!   As for the SR parcels/luggage van, how attractive will it really be to those who have already Roxeyfied their examples?  Besides, if it is really possible to have too many parcels vans, I have.

 

A fleeting temptation might have been the Prideolino, were it not for the fact that the layout is set in the foothills of Dartmoor, where the nearest thing to overhead electrification to be seen is the occasional CEGB pylon.  It will be interesting to see how well the LGBT+ liveried models sell ...

 

Don't mind me, folks.  I was at the dentist this morning and the injection is only just wearing off.

 

Chris

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Where does my interest lie in the 2021 Hornby range ? Well, as a modeller of BR blue in the 1970s, with no interest in HAAs or Railroad Deltics, the LNER CCT in blue is about it. I would dearly love to support Hornby, and buy their products, if only they would make more stuff I like ! Bachmann, Heljan and Dapol all have produced or will produce top-notch modernisation plan DMUs, but a 114 or 120 from Hornby would be most welcome and I'm sure popular. Perhaps next year ?

 

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11 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

You didn't imagine it. It's R7304 Platform Island. Though I don't know how much of Rannoch station you'll actually get for £4.49 RRP.

 

4 hours ago, Legend said:

 Yeah they did picture a station building though didn’t they ?  As you say this is probably just the platform 

 

The Hornby site is stable at the present, R7304 is described as

Quote

A detailed section of railway platform.

so one assumes its one of their 6" platform segments moulded with a red gravel top. Perhaps a compressed "Rannoch" style waiting room will appear in Skaledaleglen in due course. 

 

Just thinking aloud, Hornby could reintroduce the original Triang "wide" platform units to produce a more realistic effect!

 

I'm still dithering about what I might put in for. 

 

I suppose I'll at least buy a catalogue to show willing...

 

 

Edited by Hroth
repetition, and a thort...
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I too have a primary focus on BR Blue (although with quite an alarming degree of scope creep over the years). But having more than enough 'stuff' at this juncture I'm more than happy to see a catalogue that has maybe one or two items rather than dozens.
The BR Blue Class 56 fits that bill, I don't have a BR-built version of the Hornby super detail model and the one proposed for 2021 fits the bill nicely. Plus that rather attractive Ruston in blue. In terms of scope creep, my only preorder is for the Dublo BR MN (which is definitely not BR blue.....)

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5 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

I too have a primary focus on BR Blue

Another here, and as I'm now focused on the WCML maybe the 87 allowing for a little creep. Would have to be ex-works though!

Coaching stock wise Hornby may win as the MK1 RBR is already a shoe in,  but I'm also in the market for a full 10 coach MK1 mix of the time, and properly filthied up. As for locos, it seems the competition will be getting the bucks.

It would be great if anyone has any pics of a recently compiled Hornby MK1 blue/grey rake and any tips on very close coupling.

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14 minutes ago, chrisf said:

I'm not really interested!  I thought the days of generic models were long gone and it is dispiriting to see Hattons and Hornby going yah boo sucks at one another over their four-wheelers.  It's all very well to see a proliferation of liveries but I've been around for long enough to learn how to use a paintbrush!   As for the SR parcels/luggage van, how attractive will it really be to those who have already Roxeyfied their examples?  Besides, if it is really possible to have too many parcels vans, I have.

 

 

Lets stand that argument on its head. You can think that in some ways modern units are very much the usual generic model of which your describing. Same shape, type, lights, length, etc... all because the prototype is the same unit. The only difference is the livery variation for where these units operate with the different privatised companies. Chuck in BR period modelling and a class 37 in BR blue is a very generic model of a go everywhere engine. You can argue that generic models have been done for ages and its that exact quality that can get some of them made.

 

The problem is that with pre-grouping or four wheeled stock your never going to get the numbers to do one coach of one company exactly. For if you do, the problem could be worse that you please one small company and infuriate the rest. The generic approach taps demand and compromises over livery and appearance but you can still get some stock of a coach, that broadly fits your area and interest. If thats no good for you then don't buy it - but I suspect many will.. 

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I know Generic is a red rag to a bull to some folk . But just supposing they’d been a bit more innovative and done a range of bogie Hoppers . Base it on one of the wagons , EWS , GBRf , Freightliner  and supply it in all colour schemes . Something for all these 66s to haul. £25 /£30 a pop  . That would have been innovative instead of copying Hattons idea on 4 and 6 wheel coaches 

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I think it is hard for people to get too excited about things which were predictable such as the bugatti P2, the reappearance of models not seen for a while such as the Clan, or new toolings for things for which there were already very decent quality models available like the A1/A3 and 9F, however welcome each of these might be.  All of the aforementioned, and also the nice little R&H diesel, are things that I am likely to buy (if not this year then at some point when a livery/number that I find more appealing comes around), but somehow there is nothing with a 'wow factor' for me at least.   Re-tooling something with an ancient or tooling like the D49, County or Saint would doubtless have generated more excitement, but presumably Hornby reckon what they are offering will sell and perhaps the development costs were lower.  Like others, I'd been hoping for some extensions to the coaching stock offer - ideally to allow all these lovely Gresley locos to pull a reasonably accurate rake - but that will have to wait for another year.  The Southern catering cars are a positive development on that front though.

 

I'm  surprised at the lack of a J36 - still not done in LNER unlined black (pre- or post-war) or BR late crest.  Hopefully we will not have to wait so long for another run of these as we did for the Clan!

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I'm quite pleased all in all. Enough to be interested in, not enough I need to be worried about compromising for affordabilitys sake.

 

I had 4 serious wants, GBRF 60, LNER MK4s, TPE 802 and Drax Biomass.

 

Thought the 60 would be there, pleased there is two along with the Cappagh, MK4s I'd have been very surprised if they weren't there, amazed the 802 isn't as it was mentioned last year and from what I have seen around it's been asked for a lot, Drax was a long shot but can but hope. 2/4 ain't bad though.

 

I am however really pleased they are doing a newly tooled, loco specific, top notch P2. 2007 has been ordered for me to run mainline steam charters with! I did suggest they might do that in the wants thread but was surprised when it actually happened.

 

The DVLR 88DS will go nicely with the DVLR 48DS, given they are local to me I I think I'll have them for my small shunter layout I'll be doing after I complete my "national rail" part of the layout.

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1 hour ago, Legend said:

But just supposing they’d been a bit more innovative and done a range of bogie Hoppers . Base it on one of the wagons , EWS , GBRf , Freightliner  and supply it in all colour schemes . Something for all these 66s to haul. £25 /£30 a pop

 

I think the issue with that is they'd have to be cheap for them to really be of appeal. If buying enough of them ASs HYAs are £35 a pop so they'd have to be £25 a pop I think for the people aware of the AS model to consider a GBRF one for example, but they probably wouldn't be a lot cheaper to make which would defeat the point. The price of the Bachmann HKA would be a far easier fight mind you.

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2 hours ago, Legend said:

I know Generic is a red rag to a bull to some folk . But just supposing they’d been a bit more innovative and done a range of bogie Hoppers . Base it on one of the wagons , EWS , GBRf , Freightliner  and supply it in all colour schemes . Something for all these 66s to haul. £25 /£30 a pop  . That would have been innovative instead of copying Hattons idea on 4 and 6 wheel coaches 

 

Not Hattons idea though. Generic four wheel coaches have been available since the start of model railways.

 

Hornby have had a generic four wheeler in their range since the mid 1970s. I believe they had one back in the olden days as well, 1950s?

 

Graham Farish also had them in N Gauge for decades. Possibly also in 00 Gauge, they definitely had the generic Suburban bogie coaches.

 

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Jason

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2 hours ago, chrisf said:

I'm not really interested!  I thought the days of generic models were long gone and it is dispiriting to see Hattons and Hornby going yah boo sucks at one another over their four-wheelers.  It's all very well to see a proliferation of liveries but I've been around for long enough to learn how to use a paintbrush!   As for the SR parcels/luggage van, how attractive will it really be to those who have already Roxeyfied their examples?  Besides, if it is really possible to have too many parcels vans, I have.

 

A fleeting temptation might have been the Prideolino, were it not for the fact that the layout is set in the foothills of Dartmoor, where the nearest thing to overhead electrification to be seen is the occasional CEGB pylon.  It will be interesting to see how well the LGBT+ liveried models sell ...

 

Don't mind me, folks.  I was at the dentist this morning and the injection is only just wearing off.

 

Chris

I have to agree about the generic coaches. Would accurate models of one company’s coaches also adorned with the liveries of other companies not have made sense? The accurate models would have suited fussy people and the other liveries the people who wanted something in the right colours to run with other pre-grouping locomotives. Despite a certain reluctance, I might decide to get a rake if the generic designs are not too far off a particular company’s designs. Both Hornby and Hatton’s seem to be going to a lot of trouble to produce detailed coaches with touches such as different lighting systems, considering that they don’t represent any particular prototype. Although, as has been said, the warm reception seems to indicate that they will be a success.

 

I hope your mouth mends well. I haven’t the dentist to blame for grumpiness.

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2 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

 

Mike, are the 5 wheeled coaches prototypical?

 

I'm not so sure about 5 wheels but 9 wheels definitely were.  So it looks like we need some generic Pre-Group bogie coaches next (although that will provoke even more arguments comments I expect).

 

PS thanks for reading my OP - typo corrections are always welcomed - honest.  So i'll now go back and spoil things for those coming along later ;) 

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I am interested in the 9F but Hornby really will have to pull out all the stops to beat the Bachmann one which IMO is one of the two or three best RTR British outline steam locos of the last 25 years.

 

Would have liked a new variant of a rebuilt Light Pacific as these models are not easy to find new or second hand.

 

A couple of years ago I did ask Simon Kohler at the MK show if there was any chance of a retool of the old LBSC brake van (which was one of the better Margate era wagon models); he replied that it was a possibility (albeit vague), so that would be a good future product I think as it would complement the LSWR brake van released recently.

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On 06/01/2021 at 14:47, jools1959 said:

I constantly surprised why Hornby really don’t seem to be interested in doing multiple units, both diesel and electric though I was glad to see the APT from last year’s announcements.  I feel that had they announced a Class 120 in this year’s announcements, the orders would have come flooding in.

It shouldn't really be a surprise as the reasons have been stated many times. These days, the cost of tooling a single item is a six-figure sum. A three coach multiple unit means three times that figure by the time you've added in all the complexity of getting lights etc to work off one decoder. And all the time the market is shrinking with the result that manufacturers are spreading ever-increasing costs over ever-reducing production runs, and that means ever-rising prices, which no one likes. I, too, would love to see a Class 120 but that particular unit involves more complications because there isn't one in existence to scan. Due to very high blue asbestos content, they all, apart from one buffet car, got scrapped. Working from drawings and photographs is more complex and costly with greater risk of getting it wrong. (CJL)

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1 minute ago, SD85 said:

I am interested in the 9F but Hornby really will have to pull out all the stops to beat the Bachmann one which IMO is one of the two or three best RTR British outline steam locos of the last 25 years.

 

Would have liked a new variant of a rebuilt Light Pacific as these models are not easy to find new or second hand.

 

A couple of years ago I did ask Simon Kohler at the MK show if there was any chance of a retool of the old LBSC brake van (which was one of the better Margate era wagon models); he replied that it was a possibility (albeit vague), so that would be a good future product I think as it would complement the LSWR brake van released recently.

I think we have quite a long time to wait for the 9F - somebody who I reckon ought to know has suggested that it won't be here until next year so taht might give them time to get it right.  On the other hand if they rush it than it would, perhaps, become a pointless exercise offering nothing better than Bachmann.

 

 At the time of my count yesterday the 9F thread had created more interest than any other class specific steam thread with 61 posts (only2 fewer than the 'general' steam outline thread) and 4.6k views which although some way behind that 'genera; steam' thread (6.2k views) was way ahead of all the other class specific steam  threads.  in terms of numbers it was certainly the new steam outline offering creating the most interest although some of the posts inevitably raised a question mark about it competing with the Bachmann offering.  To me it looked like a bit of a slip-up because it seems to have missed the opportunity to open with the 'definitely a bit' different Tyne Dock - Consett variant.

 

Of all the Hornby 2021 models it is the one - perhaps the only one apart from a new livery variant for the large prairie - which I am likely to buy although I've yet to see whos generic 4 wheeler most closely matches a WR departmental one that appeals to me. 

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21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

'm not so sure about 5 wheels but 9 wheels definitely were.

Not if you specify that they must all be flanged...

 

34 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

believe they had one back in the olden days as well, 1950s?

The Hornby tinplate 0 gauge range did but never had bogies, but TTBOMK Hornby Dublo never did, and neither did Rovex/Triang.  The Ratio (now Parkside) 4 wheel kit GW coaches could be described as generic, though the company is specified they are not correct to specific diagrams and are 'of that style', and the same can be said for Triang's shorty clerestories. Rovex's initial LMS 7 inchers were not really a model of anything, but the 8 inch Triangs that followed them were not, they were underlength but currectly numbered Staniers (except the green ones), as the 9 inch mk1s were underlength mk1s.  I would describe Triang's suburbans as generic but vaguely LMS ish.

 

Trix Twin did a rather basic short Stanier as well, though it was the locos that were generic in this case.  One might describe HD's use of the N1 to represent locos from the other big 3 that looked similar from a range of about 3 miles as generic as well.

 

 

Acceptable layout models can be worked up from the Triang shorty clerestories, and it is possible that the new Hornby coaches might provide material for this as well, as might Hattons, but the Hornbys look better for my intennded South Wales miners train, with the radiussed panels.

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3 hours ago, Legend said:

I know Generic is a red rag to a bull to some folk . But just supposing they’d been a bit more innovative and done a range of bogie Hoppers . Base it on one of the wagons , EWS , GBRf , Freightliner  and supply it in all colour schemes . Something for all these 66s to haul. £25 /£30 a pop  . That would have been innovative instead of copying Hattons idea on 4 and 6 wheel coaches 

 

Problem with that is that to the lessor observer who is interested in other periods, there are actually quite a few differences between the various wagons and rakes used by all the companies you mention. Yes they all use a class 66... but it would have to be both a very cheap wagon to undercut the ones that have been made or are being made for the demand that this area is showing. Accurascale are doing all of the GBRf wagons mentioned, Bachmann have done EWS and Frieghtliner (+ Colas). There isnt much point in taking on this area, with a duplicated generic project that will be riddled with differences compared to their accurate counterparts and the price will be so low that the volume and prices changes in the future could wipe out easily any profit from this. Far better to focus on where the generic ideas can be applied properly as I mentioned above with certain diesels and standard kinds of locomotive or stock. That way you take advantage of the commonality of some prototypes that then mean a wider potential market is available and those are the ones to choose to model. Irroncially enough that means that the GBRf wagons are a good choice to be done accurately and thats why Accurascale are doing them but why another run of the Hornby Drax Biomass wagon would be a good idea too. 

  

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12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Not if you specify that they must all be flanged...

 

The Hornby tinplate 0 gauge range did but never had bogies, but TTBOMK Hornby Dublo never did, and neither did Rovex/Triang.  The Ratio (now Parkside) 4 wheel kit GW coaches could be described as generic, though the company is specified they are not correct to specific diagrams and are 'of that style', and the same can be said for Triang's shorty clerestories.

 

The Ratio kits are correct though. They're the Ruabon to Dolgelley* sets. Later used at places like the Tanat Valley Railway where they replaced the old Cambrian stock.

 

S9. U4. T47

 

Just a bit dated. If you use the parts from Mainly Trains and Shirescenes they can be transformed.

 

Slaters do the same kits in 7mm scale. So hardly generic....

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/carriages/gOCarriages.php

 

 

*Correct spelling for the time

 

 

Jason

Edited by Steamport Southport
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