Jump to content

Please use M,M&M only for topics that do not fit within other forum areas. All topics posted here await admin team approval to ensure they don't belong elsewhere.

Abandoned rails in the road.....(or elsewhere...)


Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, 31A said:

A bit more about it on here:

 

https://ffhyork.weebly.com/uploads/8/2/0/5/8205739/ordnance_depot_railway_-_v2.pdf

 

The extract from the 1909 OS on this document shows slightly more railway than on the extract above.

 

I was under the impression that locos were not used. I can’t remember if I read anything denying that they were though.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I was under the impression that locos were not used. I can’t remember if I read anything denying that they were though.

 

So was I.  I think that bit is a bit "suppositional"!

 

  • Like 1
  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 33C said:

Looks like an ideal "Cake-box" scene. Wall/gate, across road, wharf and riverbank!

 

Definitely, though the maps seem to suggest the path (the current cycleway) was not there when the line was in use (which is perhaps unsurprising, as as far as I know there was no river crossing there then). I looked at doing this a few years ago when I first came across the line and I think even a 7mm scale (09), full scale length version would have only been about a metre long, possibly slightly less (it would also depend on whether you chose to model any boats in the river - that would probably require a bit more space). In the absence of any information about the original rolling stock and knowing that a model would need to be loco-worked, I was thinking of using Woolwich Arsenal designs (also an 18 inch gauge munitions line, equipped around the same time). I might still do this but the unhelpful bit is replicating the curved point on the wharf, which I suspect would require hand-laid track, and for me at the moment trying to find the time and money to devote to something a bit more bespoke, and trying to get a feel of what the area around it would have been like when the line was working. Deciding on a viewing angle would also be interesting, given that the line coming from the wall is almost perpendicular to the river, but then curves so that the sidings are parallel to it.

 

Was there also a static hand crane at one point?

 

Apologies - with the number of posts on this and the Berkhamsted line I feel like I’ve accidentally caused a bizarre 18 inch gauge horse-drawn hijack of the thread.

  • Like 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Definitely, though the maps seem to suggest the path (the current cycleway) was not there when the line was in use (which is perhaps unsurprising, as as far as I know there was no river crossing there then). I looked at doing this a few years ago when I first came across the line and I think even a 7mm scale (09), full scale length version would have only been about a metre long, possibly slightly less (it would also depend on whether you chose to model any boats in the river - that would probably require a bit more space). In the absence of any information about the original rolling stock and knowing that a model would need to be loco-worked, I was thinking of using Woolwich Arsenal designs (also an 18 inch gauge munitions line, equipped around the same time). I might still do this but the unhelpful bit is replicating the curved point on the wharf, which I suspect would require hand-laid track, and for me at the moment trying to find the time and money to devote to something a bit more bespoke, and trying to get a feel of what the area around it would have been like when the line was working. Deciding on a viewing angle would also be interesting, given that the line coming from the wall is almost perpendicular to the river, but then curves so that the sidings are parallel to it.

 

Was there also a static hand crane at one point?

 

Apologies - with the number of posts on this and the Berkhamsted line I feel like I’ve accidentally caused a bizarre 18 inch gauge horse-drawn hijack of the thread.

I was thinking cardboard sleepers and thick card rails, as it's hardly going to be a working cakebox! Yes, there is no road/path on the plan which makes it easier, and why not make simple, balsa/card rolling stock. Wait a minute, i'm getting ideas............:read:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 01/04/2021 at 13:46, Nick C said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxSmJcnKn44iW_P2t55utUw/videos

 

All in Polish unfortunately, but you can see what's going on without having to understand what they're saying!

Watching the men working on reinstating a  disconnection , a rail unkeyed  and tipped over, the way they set about the task, and work with  the tools, the digging bars, they must be experienced  PWay men 

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Looks like it had a run round loop once upon a time?

 

Mike.

 

If the track plan on the map is accurate that would mean there’s another point still to be uncovered.

 

Given the extremely short headshunt at the end and the probable lack of locos, it looks as though it might have been designed more to move loaded wagons to the siding away from the river than as a run round. Even with a loco, there isn’t a run round at the other end of the line and it’s very short so I can’t see that it would have been used as one. I can see how it might have been operated based on the position of the crane - uncouple horse, hand-shunt first wagon forward to crane and load from boat, then put the wagon through the headshunt and onto the other siding. Repeat until the loaded train is made up in the siding on the non-river side. A slightly similar track layout existed at the end of the Padarn Railway where the quarry wagons were unloaded from the 4ft gauge transporters to go down to the port and I think this was worked in a vaguely similar way. Not a very easy method of operation to replicate on a loco-worked model though. Possibly this would be easier to work than just having a single point at the north end, in terms of getting each wagon near the crane for loading without having to change the order of the wagons again. Though surely what would be even easier would be to have no points at all (or possibly just one leading to a short siding) and then have a longer section of line extending beyond the crane for the loaded wagons to rest in?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

If the track plan on the map is accurate that would mean there’s another point still to be uncovered.

 

 

Possibly a sector plate? There doesn't seem to be any continuation beyond where they converge.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Possibly a sector plate? There doesn't seem to be any continuation beyond where they converge.

 

Possibly. It seems an oddly complicated track layout to have though, especially with a sector plate or turntable. They do seem to converge back together though. Possibly the layout is dictated by the need to move individual wagons quickly from the boat to the stores (due to safety issues and the risk of powder getting wet) while the others are being loaded? Though I still think a simpler layout could have been used, with either one point or none.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

...Something literally 'off the wall'...but still a remnant of what once was...this is where the litter bin was attached to the wall of the up waiting room on Acklington station before someone nicked it. However you can see the NER Brown and Stone colour scheme, the LNER Green and Cream, the BR (NER) Blue and off White and the current Grey and off White

image.png.0035fd05e97a2b929011c511085b73aa.png

  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

5 minutes ago, Axlebox said:

...Something literally 'off the wall'...but still a remnant of what once was...this is where the litter bin was attached to the wall of the up waiting room on Acklington station before someone nicked it.

 

I think this thread is in danger of starting to stray in to the territory of the "Ghosts in the Machine" thread.

 

It's OK having a thread just for abandoned rails/track, but once it drifts in to non-permanent-way relics like this, we risk ending up with useful/interesting information being scattered across multiple threads and thus more difficult to find (or find again).

 

Not that I think the photo is uninteresting, just that it might be better posted elsewhere.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Even with a loco, there isn’t a run round at the other end of the line

 

The 1909 OS 25 inch map seems to show a run-round or passing loop within the factory grounds:

 

744755760_Screenshot2021-04-20at11_45_33.png.34c2d63cb7ebf330f91bd8ce3e6f3ec0.png

 

Not that that makes your wider point any less relevant.

  • Like 1
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

 

I think this thread is in danger of starting to stray in to the territory of the "Ghosts in the Machine" thread.

 

It's OK having a thread just for abandoned rails/track, but once it drifts in to non-permanent-way relics like this, we risk ending up with useful/interesting information being scattered across multiple threads and thus more difficult to find (or find again).

 

Not that I think the photo is uninteresting, just that it might be better posted elsewhere.

...your probably right (If nothing else, I'm good at thread drift!)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
3 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

If the track plan on the map is accurate that would mean there’s another point still to be uncovered.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

 

The 1909 OS 25 inch map seems to show a run-round or passing loop within the factory grounds:

 

744755760_Screenshot2021-04-20at11_45_33.png.34c2d63cb7ebf330f91bd8ce3e6f3ec0.png

 

Not that that makes your wider point any less relevant.

 

29 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Yes, sorry - must have missed that.

 

If you think about it, the various sidings off the wagon turntables can act as the equivalent of run round loops.

 

Mike.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 13/04/2021 at 19:58, Axlebox said:

I've just checked it out on Street view...

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.7352258,-1.992354,3a,75y,306.7h,55.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZPnrclyn1MnADqSCBxIO7A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

...and you were right, there is still at least one rail down by the crossing

Returning briefly to my post back on page 9 about the Parson Byer's Quarry sidings, and Axlebox's excellent link to Streetview: on the Transport Library webpage there's a Neville Stead picture (unfortunately undated) of a J39 (??) waiting to exit the exchange sidings with the gates closed on some fine post-war motor vehicles.  See https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=92722

 

The chap in the light mac with his back to the camera in that photo is standing almost exactly next to the rail which still survives embedded in the mud.

 

Richard T

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The one behind the gate looks like a Humber Super Snipe Mk IV

The other looks like a Morris Isis from a similar period

 

That Humber model came out in 1955 so the photo must post date that.

 

 

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Returning briefly to my post back on page 9 about the Parson Byer's Quarry sidings, and Axlebox's excellent link to Streetview: on the Transport Library webpage there's a Neville Stead picture (unfortunately undated) of a J39 (??) waiting to exit the exchange sidings with the gates closed on some fine post-war motor vehicles.  See https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=92722

 

The chap in the light mac with his back to the camera in that photo is standing almost exactly next to the rail which still survives embedded in the mud.

 

Richard T

 

Hi Richard, there are a number of photographs taken on the same day. Its a West Auckland J39 and the line up to the quarry has been lifted, so the exchange sidings must have been in use for stone loading. I don't remember where this view came from and will remove if anyone objects...but there is the rail you can see in street view

image.png.c1a7bcb4e84737db99e130a49b1126c9.png

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Axlebox said:

so the exchange sidings must have been in use for stone loading.

That makes sense - if the incline was converted to an access road then stone could be motored down to be tipped into hoppers at the sidings which, IIRC, were at varying levels?  (You can still see these varying levels in the remaining earthworks.)  Thanks for that excellent photo, which is a lot clearer than the Neville Stead image.  Glad my guess at a J39 was correct. 

 

If you remember where this, or other photos, came from please let me know as I collect images of the Weardale railways and I'm happy to pay for a decent hard-copy print or high-res scan.

 

Richard T

Edited by RichardT
Clarification
  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

No, they're not the same. Both were the last generation of that size car from Austin and Morris designed pre-merger, so they had completely different bodies. The similarities in styling are simply from them being from the same era. Overall the Morris is more rounded, particularly in side window profile.

Both were replaced with by BMC 'Farina' 1.5 models which did share the same basic body.

Edited by BernardTPM
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In the summer of 2018, we holidayed at Tanygrisiau in a small cottage just below the FR railway station.

Walking north from here takes you up to the remnants of the Cwmorthin Tramway - where there are still rails in-situ in places.

Picture2.jpg.4716b870d7edd356a0e8920f46ca6ad2.jpg

Cwmorthin water falls  - the inclined plane up from the Ffestinog Railway ran to the east of here.

Picture3.jpg.50f10ad1f8d4f1fdfdda9f086acd186a.jpgPicture4.jpg.d5a5cbab5ff22465313e4cbe554c608f.jpg

The stark remnants of Wrysgan Quarry.Picture5.jpg.e7cc7dbc82d663564b35c391f6e3ac8c.jpg 

The exit tramway runs through the centre of this photo, just above Llyn Cwmorthin

 

Picture6.jpg.48a520dca01f01996c5751aa288c2001.jpg 

It then ran to the west of the lake up to Conglog quarry

 

Picture7.jpg.35ec7d9e5b102c41fa7e5d06eeb2c324.jpg

 The tramway was abandoned just before the Second World War, but had been largely unused for years before. 

 

Picture8.jpg.246565976a48307adfa00cd0bbdd7f59.jpg

Picture9.jpg.43f6d870d8cd38811eb583c22ed722ce.jpgLengths of rail and sleepers are visible on the side of the path.

Picture10.jpg.5eb8086bc3609874779afc7aa894a73b.jpg

The tramway heads for the remains of the mill and ancillary buildings - a further inclined plane exits, stage left.

Picture11.jpg.8b61aea2a75dcf53beb824e136dd1c46.jpgPicture12.jpg.6ef5c7a3d04bf139716c6c0bab5ab9c6.jpgPicture13.jpg.d45b7a5b07e3ae682f5e7a8e78713d53.jpg

Edited by MPR
  • Like 14
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MPR said:

In the summer of 2018, we holidayed at Tanygrisiau in a small cottage just below the FR railway station.

Walking north from here takes you up to the remnants of the Cwmorthin Tramway - where there are still rails in-situ in places.

Picture2.jpg.4716b870d7edd356a0e8920f46ca6ad2.jpg

Cwmorthin water falls  - the inclined plane up from the Ffestinog Railway ran to the east of here.

Picture3.jpg.50f10ad1f8d4f1fdfdda9f086acd186a.jpgPicture4.jpg.d5a5cbab5ff22465313e4cbe554c608f.jpg

The stark remnants of Wrysgan Quarry.Picture5.jpg.e7cc7dbc82d663564b35c391f6e3ac8c.jpg 

The exit tramway runs through the centre of this photo, just above Llyn Cwmorthin

 

Picture6.jpg.48a520dca01f01996c5751aa288c2001.jpg 

It then ran to the west of the lake up to Conglog quarry

 

Picture7.jpg.35ec7d9e5b102c41fa7e5d06eeb2c324.jpg

 The tramway was abandoned just before the Second World War, but had been largely unused for years before. 

 

Picture8.jpg.246565976a48307adfa00cd0bbdd7f59.jpg

Picture9.jpg.43f6d870d8cd38811eb583c22ed722ce.jpgLengths of rail and sleepers are visible on the side of the path.

Picture10.jpg.5eb8086bc3609874779afc7aa894a73b.jpg

The tramway heads for the remains of the mill and ancillary buildings - a further inclined plane exits, stage left.

Picture11.jpg.8b61aea2a75dcf53beb824e136dd1c46.jpgPicture12.jpg.6ef5c7a3d04bf139716c6c0bab5ab9c6.jpgPicture13.jpg.d45b7a5b07e3ae682f5e7a8e78713d53.jpg

 

Many a happy day spent up there in the 1970s / 80s; that waterfall was our children's swimming pool on hot days; (yes, they do exist in Wales)!

 

John Isherwood.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...