Peterborough North

[great northern]

Happy new year Gilbert.

 

I still owe you a return visit to Sheffield Exchange, the duck has threatened to land here soonish would you like to join him?

And a Happy new year to you also Clive. That would be very nice indeed, thank you. I haven't visited your part of my home county for a long time, and I need some education about DMUs.

[Brian Hawkins]

Happy new year Gilbert, thank you for entertaining me throughout 2018 with your superb thread, very much looking forward to more PN postings in the new year, and keep up with the good work in 2019.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Brian Hawkins

[stewartingram]

A Happy New Year to you also Peter. The Cravens was always supposed to be temporary. What I really need is a Derby heavyweight unit. I did get one some time back, but it was unsatisfactory, and I returned it. The plan now is that Tim will build a proper Class 114 for me, and when it arrives the Cravens will be passed to him for use on his projected Faringdon layout, where it will of course be entirely appropriate.

 

All of which reminds me of the mid 50s, and sitting at the front of a 114 behind a nice driver, who didn't put the blinds down, on the way to Grantham for a day's spotting. Such anticipation!

Cravens units would be appropriate on the PE/March/Cambridge trains though.

 

Stewart

Edited December 31, 2018 by stewartingram

[great northern]

Happy new year Gilbert, thank you for entertaining me throughout 2018 with your superb thread, very much looking forward to more PN postings in the new year, and keep up with the good work n 2019.

Many thanks Brian. This seems an appropriate time to wish all who visit here a peaceful and prosperous New Year. This thread is very much a two way process, as it is your interest and contributions which help to keep me committed to running trains regularly, and to continually question whether the layout and its operation can be improved even more. I appreciate and wonder at your staying power folks.

[great northern]

Cravens units would be appropriate on the PE/March/Cambridge trains though.

 

Stewart

 From what I've seen and read though Stewart DMUs were only regularly working to North from the E.Lincs in 1958. The service to Cambridge seems to have been improved in 59/60, and after that there are plenty of photos of DMUs running them. In 58 though, I'm still OK to run the B12s B17s and Clauds. That's one of the main reasons for choosing PN in the first place.

Edited December 31, 2018 by great northern

[Oldddudders]

Can anyone, perhaps our ex railwaymen, give me an answer to something which is puzzling me, please?

In the course of plotting out all of the ECML carriage formations I have found some instances of part formations which are stated to be SK SK FK SK. I could understand this if they were in separate portions of the train, but they are not. Why put your posh customers in a second class sandwich?  They are usually given the best accomodation next to the catering cars, and with the shortest distance to walk on arrival at termini.

My bit of railway, or the tram-track as other railwaymen were inclined to call it - until they were appointed to run bits of it, when the tune changed, as did their underwear, regularly - used fixed formations by and large, with numbered sets even on loco-hauled trains. So why the toffs were placed squarely among the proles is beyond me, too. But my late father, a commuter 1945-74, always sought the middle of the train on safety grounds.

[great northern]

What a day that was. By close of play, about 8.20 pm the 20 empty cassettes had been reduced to 11, and at least 3 more are earmarked to be filled tomorrow. I also managed to do underframe weathering to seven carriages four wagons and two brake vans, and to go out for a three mile power walk. This unaccustomed burst of activity has now left me a trifle fatigued, so fuller details will have to wait awhile.

 

It has all turned into a major upheaval and reworking of storage and operation, but so far it seems to be turning out really well, so I'm more than a little pleased. There was no time to run trains though, and no light for photography even if I had done so, which means just one image to be shown tonight.

 

Book Law has stopped at Platform 2, but will be coming off the train very shortly. I really am delighted, if somewhat surprised, that my mad ideas seem to be working so well. I shall not, however, be staying up to see the New Year in, and having taken my hearing aids out, I shall not be disturbed by others so doing with the accompaniment of fireworks.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

My bit of railway, or the tram-track as other railwaymen were inclined to call it - until they were appointed to run bits of it, when the tune changed, as did their underwear, regularly - used fixed formations by and large, with numbered sets even on loco-hauled trains. So why the toffs were placed squarely among the proles is beyond me, too. But my late father, a commuter 1945-74, always sought the middle of the train on safety grounds.

As do most railway people.

[bigwordsmith]

As do most railway people.

 

 

 

I know many airforce personnel who always fly in the rearmost seats of a plane they are not in control of- as Billy Connolly once remarked, 'Who ever heard of a plane reversing into mountain?"

[great northern]

I know many airforce personnel who always fly in the rearmost seats of a plane they are not in control of- as Billy Connolly once remarked, 'Who ever heard of a plane reversing into mountain?"

Still not much fun even if it is going forwards when it hits the mountain though?

[great northern]

One of those nights. Fall into bed, tired out, and sleep will not come. And I could hear the fireworks. Today may partly be spent dozing, but I'm determined to carry on with the progress on the railway too. Slight setback here, as I've just tried to upload part of my latest spreadsheet and got a big red message saying I can't, so a morning picture will have to suffice.

Book Law is now reversing down to New England, and disgustingly dirty Duke of Rothesay has taken its place. My memory tells me that the Duke was almost always in this sort of state, but it was a very regular sight on spotting days, so its mechanical condition can't have been too bad.

 

The New Year has produced some daylight, so maybe some more photography can take place, if I can sort the fiddle yard enough to be able to run trains properly.

[chaz]

One of those nights. Fall into bed, tired out, and sleep will not come. And I could hear the fireworks. Today may partly be spent dozing, but I'm determined to carry on with the progress on the railway too. Slight setback here, as I've just tried to upload part of my latest spreadsheet and got a big red message saying I can't, so a morning picture will have to suffice.

16 engine change.JPG

Book Law is now reversing down to New England, and disgustingly dirty Duke of Rothesay has taken its place. My memory tells me that the Duke was almost always in this sort of state, but it was a very regular sight on spotting days, so its mechanical condition can't have been too bad.

 

The New Year has produced some daylight, so maybe some more photography can take place, if I can sort the fiddle yard enough to be able to run trains properly.

 

 

Your comment about the A2 provoked a thought - why should there be any link between the external condition of a machine and its mechanical state? As long as the grit and grime has not been allowed to permeate the oiled and greased parts the awful state of the painted surfaces makes no difference to its efficiency - of course the morale of the crew is a different matter. 

 

Chaz

[great northern]

I'm on my tea break, so I thought you might like to see a sample of part of my cunning plan. This is just one page of four, and only shows about half of each formation, but it does show what I'm trying to do. I'm looking for portions, and regular sub formations which appear in a number of trains. They can then be put into cassettes, and assembled into the full train on FY Road 1 as I normally do.

 

Each sub formation has a different colour coding, so that they jump out at me when I analyse the whole thing. Some of the colours don't quite match, but never mind. Anyway, you can see, for example, that BSO CK SK, highlighted in yellow, appears quite often, in fact one one occasion twice in the same train, so there are two cassettes containing that combination. Each cassette will have an identifying number, and the prompt on the sequence display will tell operators what to put together, and in what order. So far, this seems to be working very well. All catering cars, by the way, are identified with the same shade of green.

Edited January 1, 2019 by great northern

[thegreenhowards]

I'm on my tea break, so I thought you might like to see a sample of part of my cunning plan. This is just one page of four, and only shows about half of each formation, but it does show what I'm trying to do. I'm looking for portions, and regular sub formations which appear in a number of trains. They can then be put into cassettes, and assembled into the full train on FY Road 1 as I normally do.

img20190101_11394592.jpg

 

Each sub formation has a different colour coding, so that they jump out at me when I analyse the whole thing. Some of the colours don't quite match, but never mind. Anyway, you can see, for example, that BSO CK SK, highlighted in yellow, appears quite often, in fact one one occasion twice in the same train, so there are two cassettes containing that combination. Each cassette will have an identifying number, and the prompt on the sequence display will tell operators what to put together, and in what order. So far, this seems to be working very well. All catering cars, by the way, are identified with the same shade of green.

I like the idea Gilbert. Do you have a plan for how to deal with carriage destination boards? Could you do different boards on each side? Or maybe you’ll just have to live without for these regular portions. I’m watching with interest as I’m thinking of doing something similar myself in the long run.

 

Andy

[great northern]

Your comment about the A2 provoked a thought - why should there be any link between the external condition of a machine and its mechanical state? As long as the grit and grime has not been allowed to permeate the oiled and greased parts the awful state of the painted surfaces makes no difference to its efficiency - of course the morale of the crew is a different matter. 

 

Chaz

 True. A choice had to be made between external appearance and mechanical efficiency. If there weren't enough people to do both, external looks would have no priority.

[great northern]

I like the idea Gilbert. Do you have a plan for how to deal with carriage destination boards? Could you do different boards on each side? Or maybe you’ll just have to live without for these regular portions. I’m watching with interest as I’m thinking of doing something similar myself in the long run.

 

Andy

 This is the bit that's got me beaten for the time being Andy. I can live with the thought of unloading three or even four cassettes to form one train, but on top of that to then individually apply several detachable boards sems to be taking a good thing past its sensible limits. I've not given up on it, but living without them it will be, at least short term.

[great northern]

There are now just seven empty cassettes. All of the suitable sub formations I identified are now safely housed. I thought I might have major difficulties with coupling incompatibilities, but it all worked out very well. Roco type couplings have had to go though, as I just don't seem to be able to get them to couple properly some of the time. It's been suggested that I apply just a small drop of superglue to stop them coming apart when I don't want them too, which I think I'll try. The appearance they give is much preferable to tension locks.

 

Now that this seems to have worked so well, I can give more details. I accepted when I first planned the layout that I'd have to have just one Up and one Down unnamed formation for both West Riding and Tyneside trains, which meant that the vast majority of the trains I run are not "right". I haven't been unduly concerned about that, because to store every train on the ECML in 1958 would be impossible, both in terms of space and expense. I felt it worth doing the analysis shown on the spreadsheet though to see how big a task it would be to get nearer to being accurate using the cassette system, which has proved itself by now.

 

In the end, thirteen cassettes, with between two and four carriages in each, enables me to get very close to what the official books say. There will have to be one more, as thirteen is a number I don't like. I have few superstitions, but that's one of them. It soon became clear though that I would not have enough stock, unless I bit the bullet and dismantled the existing four rakes. This required a courageous decision, but having done some more analysis I judged that it could then be done, and I turned out to be right.

 

Losing those four rakes freed up four more fiddle yard roads, so there has been a reorganisation to make sure that the furthest roads house fixed formations, allowing me to use the easiest to reach for making up and removing formations from cassettes and/or spurs. I can build the trains around their catering cars, so all of my catering stock is now positioned in roads two and three. Now I can just use cassettes to form the stock at either end, the whole process taking place in road 1 as it does now. The result is that more efficient use will be made of far more stock than now, and I look like having quite a bit which is surplus to requirements.

 

So, as of now, I can make up the correct formation of every one of the trains on my spreadsheet, and I have four empty roads in the fiddle yard. I could find something to fill each of them, but I have another idea that I want to develop further first. I suppose unloading and shuffling around three or four cassettes, plus a bit of loose stock and the catering cars each time I come to run one of these trains may turn out to be a pain in the whatsit, but time will tell. What I may well do though is to adopt the suggestion made by His Duckiness, and let the train run for a few laps both to keep locomotives supple and to give me a chance just to watch things go by.

 

Now to some photos. We can watch that engine change from another angle.

 

Very strange light meant b&w was the only option for this, and I tried to make it look like a 50s image. Virtually nothing ran today, but Gateshead's Velocity did come up from New England, and was caught reversing into number 4 bay.

[Martin S-C]

Empty cassettes are great things. It means you need to fill them

Edited January 1, 2019 by Martin S-C

[St Enodoc]

 This is the bit that's got me beaten for the time being Andy. I can live with the thought of unloading three or even four cassettes to form one train, but on top of that to then individually apply several detachable boards sems to be taking a good thing past its sensible limits. I've not given up on it, but living without them it will be, at least short term.

 

On the Mid-Cornwall Lines I not be attaching and removing coach boards. Where a set runs on several workings but all to/from the same places, e.g. Paddington - Penzance, the coach boards will be fixed permanently. Where a set runs between a number of different destinations it will not carry coach boards. I'm comfortable with this as not every train carried coach boards and even on those that did some coaches didn't carry them as they were Saturday strengtheners or such like.

[great northern]

On the Mid-Cornwall Lines I not be attaching and removing coach boards. Where a set runs on several workings but all to/from the same places, e.g. Paddington - Penzance, the coach boards will be fixed permanently. Where a set runs between a number of different destinations it will not carry coach boards. I'm comfortable with this as not every train carried coach boards and even on those that did some coaches didn't carry them as they were Saturday strengtheners or such like.

Good thinking. I reckon I shall have to adopt the same approach, as my portions seem to roam all over the place. Hull, Halifax, Ripon Bradford,Doncaster, they've been there. I'm not sure anyone makes KX- Ripon boards anyway.

[St Enodoc]

Good thinking. I reckon I shall have to adopt the same approach, as my portions seem to roam all over the place. Hull, Halifax, Ripon Bradford,Doncaster, they've been there. I'm not sure anyone makes KX- Ripon boards anyway.

 

Sankey Scenics do a very large selection and will also make bespoke ones (including fictitious places).

 

http://www.sankeyscenics.co.uk/coach-destination-bespoke/4581566407

 

Usual disclaimer.

Edited January 2, 2019 by St Enodoc

[great northern]

While splitting up my set catering fomations yesterday I decided to record them before they went into their new fiddle yard roads. Here are the sets that work almost exclusively in West Riding trains.

Thompson RF and SO, which always ran with a FO, specified as MK1, so this will be a three coach core.

RF RSP, and again always with a FO attached, so this is another core. The LNER liked these pantry seconds, mainly for West Riding trains.

RK FO. Becoming rare by 1958, but still used in a couple of formations.

Another RF RSP, both Gresleys this time. They will share the FO with other sets.

RF SO, Gresley style. Probably the most common pairing, and sees plenty of use.

 

Now I must ponder how to fill four long fiddle yard roads, and seven more cassettes.

[Clive Mortimore]

And a Happy new year to you also Clive. That would be very nice indeed, thank you. I haven't visited your part of my home county for a long time, and I need some education about DMUs.

Hi Gilbert

 

All you need to know about DMUs in one simple lesson.

 

They don't have a steamy thing up front. The passengers can see where they are going. The designers listened to Bill Haley's "Shake rattle and roll" too many times. To finish with they are lovely.

[landscapes]

Sankey Scenics do a very large selection and will also make bespoke ones (including fictitious places).

 

http://www.sankeyscenics.co.uk/coach-destination-bespoke/4581566407

 

Usual disclaimer.

 

 

 

Hi

 

i have used Sankey Scenes for MPD signage for Haymarket.

 

They have a great selection and the signs are very detailed and extremely good quality.

 

Regards

 

David 

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert

 

All you need to know about DMUs in one simple lesson.

 

They don't have a steamy thing up front. The passengers can see where they are going. The designers listened to Bill Haley's "Shake rattle and roll" too many times. To finish with they are lovely.

But they are like panniers Clive. There are supposed to be lots of different types, bu they all look the same.