Peterborough North

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

Here are my votes and reasons:

 

1, 2, 3 and 9.

 

I believe the GE Section 52ft 6in Stock is vital to go with the wide range of GER/LNER locos now available. They travelled far and wide and are clearly 'distinctive' with the shorter length.

 

The existing range of Gresley 61ft 6in General Service Stock could be enhanced by Hornby - bearing in mind that some (many?) feel the profile is wrong on the current models. Plenty of scope there!

 

And the same goes for the End Door Stock - vital for ECML services.

 

I have only voted for Thompson Round Corner Window Stock - again, a vital component of trains passing through Peterborough North.

 

I haven't voted for either of the Sleepers. I can't see a lot of market for such stock with all its complexities.

 

Brian

[Woodcock29]

Hi Brian

2, 6 and 7 for me please.

We need improved profile Gresley general service stock and I think the teak open tourist stock would also be helpful for holiday traffic to the east coast in later periods.

A Coronation set would be useful and could be badged as Coronation, West Riding and unbadged plus some would suit BR period.

Regards

Andrew Emmett

Adelaide

South Australia

[BMacdermott]

Thanks Andrew.

 

Good to hear from you and I hope all is well with you.

 

Brian

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Brian

 

What would I have left to model?

 

These are images of stuff I have under construction.

A GE section short underframe CK

 

A long under frame GC section CK, two and half first compartments only.

 

An end door BCK, gotta sort out the wonky guards door.

 

Tourist stock

 

A Thomo buffet, refurbished.

 

Not to be confused with a Tourist Buffet (refurbished)

 

Your list doesn't mention Gresley steel sided stock, a must for the GN and GC lines.

 

As for Thompson round cornered stock, i don't have any at the moment....but I have an idea.

 

[great northern]

My choices are 2.3.4.9.10.

 

My views on the current Hornby Gresleys are well known, and the absence of a correct model of the Dia 115 seconds, as they were in 1958, is the biggest problem on PN. They were, after all, the most numerous of all Gresely designs. End door stock, particularly Dia 155 was also very common, as were the round corner window Thompsons.  The GE stock is very nice, and did get around away from th GE section, but not as essential as the other three.

 

As I am trying to show the full daytime sequence of trains in the summer of 58, at least some of the sleeping car trains are highly desirable. I take Brian's point as to whether they would be commercially viable. I do wonder why the 66ft 6ins Gresley sleepers are not included. I find them to be most impressive, and they would be on my list if I could vote for them.

[great northern]

This latest poll seems to have been a step too far for most people, and didn't generate much comment. I shall leave us in Aberdeen for now, and let you concentrate on Brian's excellent poll.

[BMacdermott]

34 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

Your list doesn't mention Gresley steel sided stock, a must for the GN and GC lines.

 

Hello Clive

 

Thanks for mentioning this.

 

Hands up! It was an error in the last 00 Wishlist Poll where the Steel-sided stock was accidentally listed under 'non-gangwayed' ... and I missed it here!

 

I am running Gresley & Thompson Catering next week and there is a 'spare space' in that Poll. I will add this stock with a special note so that readers can vote if they so wish.

 

I have deliberately left out articulated stock - between you, me and all Gilbert's readers, we are looking at running that as a Poll Team exercise with Andy York later in the year for all to see.

 

Brian

[BMacdermott]

16 minutes ago, great northern said:

As I am trying to show the full daytime sequence of trains in the summer of 58, at least some of the sleeping car trains are highly desirable. I take Brian's point as to whether they would be commercially viable. I do wonder why the 66ft 6ins Gresley sleepers are not included. I find them to be most impressive, and they would be on my list if I could vote for them.

 

Thanks Gilbert.

 

We left the 66ft 6in Sleepers out of The 00 Wishlist Poll after due consideration - but I can't recall the reason why!

 

Perhaps if my colleagues, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Robert Carroll, take part they may be able to throw some light on the matter.

 

Whilst writing, a friend has asked me to vote on his behalf as: 1, 2, 3 and 9.

 

Brian

[A Murphy]

My votes are for 1, 2. 

 

Alastair, from the naughty step..... 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Alistair

 

You are 'forgiven' - but only because you voted for some of my choices!

 

Brian

[Flying Fox 34F]

Brian,

 

1,2,6,8 and 9.  Particular emphasis on the Gresley stock being the correct profile

 

Paul

[Clive Mortimore]

I suppose I should vote

1, despite being called GE section coaches they did end up all over the shop.

2, just gotta have them.

3, as a BR period modeller these lasted  a tad longer than the all door stock so yeah another gotta have them.

9, more general service stock so some of these would be a worthy addition.

 

Now comes a problem I would put Tourist Stock as a higher want than Thomo pressure ventilated stock but under Brian's rules I am only allowed 3 Gresley and 2 Thompson. If the rules can be bent then 6 Teak Tourist Stock, and/or 5 Plywood Tourist Stock before 8 Thomo Pressure Ventilated Stock. All three types did form a good proportion of general service stock in my modelling period.

 

My layout based in Sheffield with most services going north of a line between the Humber and the Mersey there is no requirement for sleeper coaches which only leaves the Streamliners, these did get put into general service but the trains they ran in are well documented so appearing on a Cleethropes to Southport summer Saturday only train might be pushing rule 1.

[Flying Fox 34F]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Brian

 

What would I have left to model?

 

These are images of stuff I have under construction.

A GE section short underframe CK

 

A long under frame GC section CK, two and half first compartments only.

 

An end door BCK, gotta sort out the wonky guards door.

 

Tourist stock

 

A Thomo buffet, refurbished.

 

Not to be confused with a Tourist Buffet (refurbished)

 

Your list doesn't mention Gresley steel sided stock, a must for the GN and GC lines.

 

As for Thompson round cornered stock, i don't have any at the moment....but I have an idea.

 

Clive,

 

Your missing a trick here!  You need to be a Development Engineer for one of the RTR companies.

 

Paul

 

P.S. love the work

[davidw]

Here are my votes: 

 

 

2.   

3.   

 

Corrected profile  

 

8.   

9.   

 

My plea with respect to the current Thompson coaches is please can we have maroon versions! Square windowed versions did exist in maroon.

 

Many thanks to Brian and Gilbert for running this poll.

Edited May 17, 2021 by davidw

[Market65]

For myself, it’s 2, 3, 5, 8, and 9. It’s time we had some very accurate RTR models of all these carriages. The Hornby models are simply not good enough and need replacing. So a good mix of Gresley all door corridor stock as well as end door stock would be so welcome along with the green and cream Tourist stock. The round corner window Thompson stock is a glaring omission which needs to be plugged, along with the pressure ventilated stock. 
 

Rob.

[BMacdermott]

33 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

If the rules can be bent then 6 Teak Tourist Stock, and/or 5 Plywood Tourist Stock before 8 Thomo Pressure Ventilated Stock.

 

Nope!

 

Brian

[Clive Mortimore]

2 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Nope!

 

Brian

So back to making me own.

[BMacdermott]

2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

So back to making me own.

Yep!

 

Brian

[46444]

I'll be voting for... 

 

1, 7, 9.

 

GE Section stock much needed and well travelled. Something different as well. 

 

Full Gresley Streamline stock would look stunning 

 

Thompson round corner window stock like others have mentioned provides additional variation. 

 

Great idea this. 

 

Thanks, 

 

Mark 

[LNER4479]

Re the Poll

 

Nos 2 & 3

 

For Brian's benefit:

 

I come at this from a somewhat different angle. I'm actually a BR (LMR) 1950s modeller and what comes across in study of photographs is how much the Gresley coaches in particular wandered around the regions, particularly as the decade wore on and into the 1960s as the former LNER front line stock was displaced by the mass influx of MkIs from the mid 1950s onwards. Many an LMR secondary rake in the maroon era had a Gresley vehicle or two in there, brake vehicles in particular. My interest therefore is to purchase such vehicles RTR for this type of use so it's worth thinking far beyond the borders of 'just' the ECML(!) A couple of low-res (copyright) pics to illustrate the point (the second is from the famous 26.9.64 Duchess (46256) farewell railtour, which ironically saw a Gresley 6 compartment BSK as the vehicle next to the locomotive).

 

   

 

From an LNER point of view, and re a certain exhibition layout based on Grantham in LNER 1930s, I learnt a lot about Gresley stock (we pre-date Thompson) through the stock building programme (almost all from kits as the Hornby Gresleys have their well-documented weaknesses and are limited in terms of types) . One thought here - we talk 'Gresley' stock. I think one statistic of interest is that at the outbreak of WWII (ie 1939) approx 50% of front line passenger stock at that date was still ex-GNR Gresley stock - similar, but different. Some of that stock lasted certainly until early 1950s blood n custard era. Yes, a bewildering array of Gresley GNR types but I'm sure they'd be one or two of the more archetypal BTK or TK diagrams worthy of consideration for an enterprising manufacturer to add variety? To 90% of purchasers, it would still just be a 'Gresley coach'.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

So back to carry on making me own because I'm 'me' and just love doing it.

There I've altered that for you Clive.

 

Any the penny's just dropped whilst I'm typed that. You want new RTR types so that you can hack them about to make ever more esoteric 'Clive' coaches ...

[thegreenhowards]

I’ll vote 3,6,10. And 2 if they could do some different diagrams. I’d also go for 66ft Gresley sleepers if they’re allowed.

 

I’ve built kit versions of most of the rest, so being selfish, I’d rather they stayed a little elusive!

 

Andy

 

 

[BMacdermott]

21 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

My interest therefore is to purchase such vehicles RTR for this type of use so it's worth thinking far beyond the borders of 'just' the ECML(!)

Hello LNER4479

 

We did, indeed, think 'far beyond the borders of just the ECML' when my colleagues and I were running The 00 Wishlist Poll. Hence, we provided a Guide and went out to modellers around the world.

 

However, as noted in my introduction, the aim of this mini-poll was to focus on what might be seen through Peterborough North in Gilbert's time-frame. 

 

Your point is gladly taken - and others could well take note - that what was seen at Peterborough could well be seen far and wide.

 

Brian

[BMacdermott]

38 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 One thought here - we talk 'Gresley' stock. I think one statistic of interest is that at the outbreak of WWII (ie 1939) approx 50% of front line passenger stock at that date was still ex-GNR Gresley stock - similar, but different. Some of that stock lasted certainly until early 1950s blood n custard era. Yes, a bewildering array of Gresley GNR types but I'm sure they'd be one or two of the more archetypal BTK or TK diagrams worthy of consideration for an enterprising manufacturer to add variety? To 90% of purchasers, it would still just be a 'Gresley coach'.

 

Hello again LNER4479

 

I have just had a look through the Hugh Longworth book, Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock, Volume 1 (LNER section) but I can't find many GNR types that made it in fair numbers into Gilbert's era.

 

Having said that, if you can come up with a list of - say - half a dozen or so that at least 'got close', then I could submit that to Gilbert as an idea for a future Mini-Poll, perhaps as an 'add-on' to this series.

 

It might mean adding in one or two NER or ECJS types?

 

Hope that helps.

 

Brian

 

Brian

[LNER4479]

57 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello again LNER4479

 

I have just had a look through the Hugh Longworth book, Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock, Volume 1 (LNER section) but I can't find many GNR types that made it in fair numbers into Gilbert's era.

 

Having said that, if you can come up with a list of - say - half a dozen or so that at least 'got close', then I could submit that to Gilbert as an idea for a future Mini-Poll, perhaps as an 'add-on' to this series.

 

It might mean adding in one or two NER or ECJS types?

 

Hope that helps.

 

Brian

 

Brian

Thanks Brian,

 

As I said, I'm principally a BR(LMR) modeller so I don't really have the wherewithal to conduct such a survey. I would imagine that such Gresley GNR vehicles would indeed be thin on the ground by Gilbert's era - I only made reference to them surviving into the early BR era (ie blood n  custard). Logically, you can imagine the 'cascade' effect from front line work pre-1923 to mixing it with the newer LNER stock post-1923, surviving the war into the early 1950s and then finally being seen off by the MkI fleet (due to they in turn starting the next generation cascade of displacing the younger Gresley and Thompson stock). It was ever thus.

 

Thinking about it, in the RTR loco arena, the equivalent pre-grouping types have been increasingly championed by the manufacturers over the last 10-15 years. Locos which can legitimately be seen in pre-grouping, big Four and BR guise have considerable appeal (Midland 3F, GCR 'Director', LSWR Adams radial tank to name just a few). Maybe coaching stock should be thought of in the same manner?

 

At least we have the gorgeous GNR No.2701 to enjoy on the SVR!

 

Graham

 

Edit to add: agreed re ECJS vehicle in the Gresley style. Very much contemporaneous with his GNR stock.

Edited May 17, 2021 by LNER4479