Peterborough North

[great northern]

Excellent. Times have changed - I bet no-one in 1958 would have dared criticise an old lady like that J3 for having a saggy rear.

 

I was wondering what had happened to the artic twin in the first shot - the carriages don't look to line up correctly over the middle bogie?

 

It must have been cold down Ramsey way this week, or someone's doing a lot of stocking up for the winter.

 There are photos of J6's at Doncaster, shed,not works, with rear drivers removed. They didn't half sit down at the rear. Why is mine doing it? Don't know. TW built it, and wouldn't have delivered it like that, but the body hasn't been off as far as I can recall. I've checked it again, and there is a very slight lean, but as usual the camera makes it look much worse.

 

The carriages of the Artic twin are connected by press studs, clever idea but one has to get them just right. I've been fiddling with this set, as it was causing an intermittent short, and I can't have got it back together properly. Again, trust the camera to highlight it.

 

As to the mineral wagons, well, local traders were notorious for holding on to them, weren't they? I think someone must have sent the boys down to persuade him to return them. Alternatively, the layout operator was too idle to break up a full rake. The latter is much more likely.

[great northern]

Were your ears burning Gilbert.The loco exchanges of 1925 had A1 4474 Victor Wild in South Devon.Here she is at Sandy in the days of colour photography.Maybe you have her in your roster.

 

00-0-a-s-sanders-60105-sandy.jpeg

60105 is in the roster Rob, as is 60106, both being very common sights back then, as they were Grantham engines. Neither of mine is in apple green though - they are in that nice, sort of GW, livery. Lovely picture, thanks for sharing.

[jwealleans]

The carriages of the Artic twin are connected by press studs, clever idea but one has to get them just right.

Agreed.  I've had to do some tweaking of mine in the Leeds Quint.  They can acquire a lean or twist when you separate them.  Easily fixed.

[Mallard60022]

Wish somebody would tweak my Leeds Quint. I haven't had such an experience since about 1968 I think it was.

Yo.

Quackers.

[thegreenhowards]

Great staying power there!  As to your query, I can't at the moment find an answer, I'm afraid. I was sure I'd seen a short compo listed as still being in use, but as you say, the source is not the HMRS article. I may have had another senior moment - they increase all the time - but I'm still more or less convinced that I saw it somewhere. Where though?  Anyway, they still existed, and could therefore have appeared, though I think more likely on the E.Lincs, which was always last in the queue for updated stock, which is why my short composite set is rostered for Grimsby services. If I manage to find my original source, i'll post it on here, and send you a PM.

Thanks Gilbert. I think you've got a good chance on the E. Lincs, as they were relatively young and they would surely not have been scrapped in an age of austerity. I find pictures of the full sets in service relatively hard to find. The best I know of is in Huntriss' 'On Great Northen lines' which has a great picture of a five car set in Crimson and cream behind Silver Link with what I believe is a Thompson CK in the centre and a Stanier 50' BG on the front. The Thompson suits the lines of the artics better than a Mk 1, so I'm inclined to one of these if I can't find any justification for a d.190.

 

Andy

[great northern]

Some time ago, I said that I would add to my cryptic comment about the "poles" on the Down platform, which weren't. Actually majestic Mallard has already got it spot on, but I've been looking for photographic confirmation, which has proved a bit difficult. Some time ago Irwell Press kindly said that I could reproduce images on here, on the usual basis that their copyright is acknowleged and respected, so here are two views from the excellent Book of the Great Northern Part 2, which I would highly recommend to one and all. These are pre war views and show  the Arcade, which I have referred to often, but without showing it in its complete state.

Here it is, in all its glory. Some time in the mid 50s most of this disappeared, taking with it part of the supporting wall. I've never been able to establish whether it fell or was pushed, but by 58 it was as I have modelled it. As has been mentioned, someone then attached a delightfully Heath Robinsonish "lighting system", just a few naked bulbs attached to some cable, and a loudspeaker unit was also bolted to one of the remaining partly wrecked canopy supports, which are what can be seen on prototype photos.

 

The late great Dave Shakespeare and I argued, in a very friendly fashion of course, as to whether I should put those frankly unsightly broken columns on the layout. He felt that they would just look wrong, particularly to viewers who didn't know the story of how they came to be there, but in the end my view is that they were there in 1958, and so should be present on the model. I hope that shortly they will be, but whether I try to replicate that cable and those bulbs is another matter. Anyway, that's the Arcade folks, and if anyone can complete the story, I would be very grateful. My best guess is still that it came down in a high wind, and that someone who believed that the latest modernisation plan for PN would actually take place imminently, so there was no point in spending money demolishing the rest  a year or two in advance of its intended demise. In fact it stayed ln this state for at least another 15 years. What an advertisement for Britain's modernised railway.

[manna]

G'day Gents

 

Thanks for the pics of the 'Arcade' I've often wonder what it looked like, these are the first pictures I've ever seen of it.

 

I think it may have been pushed (by the wind) a few GN structures 'fell' down over the years.

 

manna

[Market65]

Thinking of structures falling down, in a violent gale on 13th,January,1984, some glass came off the roof of Beverley station, and also, the old goods warehouse was blown down smashing a bus to bits which had been parked there overnight.

 

With regards,

 

Market65.

[great northern]

Here is a report on a rather frustrating day. Yesterday was supposed to be the day when I finally got the Yorkshire Pullman completed, or very nearly so, but from the start there were problems. First there was an "incident" on the Midland main line, bringing everything to a stand while poor unfortunate people started cleaning up the mess, and delaying Tim's progress by over an hour. Never mind though, soon he was sitting ready to remove the lettering on the new Hornby Pullmans . It did not want to be removed. That which worked fine on the earlier wooden bodied cars made no impression whatsoever on these, so in the end he was only able to do part of the job, using a scalpel very carefully, and in a very time consuming way. In the end, three cars have had to return with him, as he has worked out another way to do the job, which involves repainting. Hopefully he will appear on here and explain both the problem and the solution.

 

I have to go out now, but I'll go into a bit more detail, and possibly some photos. later on.

[LNER4479]

Re the arcade - all very interesting. I'm just about to tackle an equivalent-ish canopy which covered the north end of plats 1 & 2 at the north end of Grantham. It was present in my (pre-war) era but very definitely wasn't there in the BR era - it collapsed under the weight of snow in the winter of 1946!

[great northern]

While mentally preparing myself   for this afternoon's golf, which is the past captains trophy, and which theoretically I have a good chance of winning, as there are only 17 entrants, some of whom are even more past it than I am, I decided to go and have another go at photography under the overall roof. Thanks to you kind gentlemen who explained to me the art of achieving close ups by cropping, rather than the use of zoom, I succeeded in producing this, which I feel is more suited to the black and white treatment.

 

At least it has avoided the "melted" coach effect that some may remember from past attempts, and it is a bit sharper too. I haven't found many images taken right under the roof, and it occurs to me that might be because  photographers back then were confronted with exactly the same difficulties that I face. I'm quite encouraged by this, though I wish that I'd remembered to put an LNER lamp on the loco, but as always, if any of you chaps can give me any tips as to how I could have done even better, I will appreciate your help.

[bigwordsmith]

Hi Gilbert - good shot and very tricky to get

 

How could you have done it better? In the 12" to the foot version you would have had the benefit of a long exposure to make the most of all available light - I don't know if you could try putting a long bright light above the roof lights to throw light down onto the tracks - very prototypical but you may get some odd shadow effects.

 

Throwing light in from behind the camera risks even worse shadows and would also not look right so the additional light idea may only yield marginal benefit.

 

TBH it's a damn good shot anyway

 

Good luck with your balls this afternoon - may they go just where you want them and in as few strokes as possible!

[LNER4479]

Nice pic, GN.

 

I would simply crop that even tighter than you have done

 

There's not a lot going on over on the left-hand side of your picture and, even though I've cut out some of Peter's nice detail on the right hand side, I've positioned the loco (generally the focal point) in the lower-right 'golden section' part of the view. From what I've read from a few photographic books, slightly counter-intuitively, you should avoid having the main focal point in the plumb centre of a picture; instead, you aim to have it towards one of the four corners (there's a theory about the 'golden section' intersection points). If you look at any Treacey, WJVA (etc) classics you'll see they had this knack. It just somehow is easier on the eye to look at.

 

Yours is a great pic notwithstanding - but you did ask for thoughts, so there you go!

Edited August 21, 2015 by LNER4479

[Mallard60022]

 

Apologies for the crap cart on the left and that this is WR Snow Hill. However this is a not a lot going on shot, but look at the detail and what's happeneing in the mundane, everyday, how it was time, all those years ago.

Yours...............great shot Gilbert; at least a Birdy.

 

Quackers.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Mallard60022

[Alister_G]

I think that's a superb shot, given the constraints of lighting etc, and very believable indeed, just needs a bit of smoke - if you like that kind of thing...

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2015 by acg_mr

[great northern]

Nice pic, GN.

 

I would simply crop that even tighter than you have done

 

post-98-0-79892200-1440157719_thumb.jpg

There's not a lot going on over on the left-hand side of your picture and, even though I've cut out some of Peter's nice detail on the right hand side, I've positioned the loco (generally the focal point) in the lower-right 'golden section' part of the view. From what I've read from a few photographic books, slightly counter-intuitively, you should avoid having the main focal point in the plumb centre of a picture; instead, you aim to have it towards one of the four corners (there's a theory about the 'golden section' intersection points). If you look at any Treacey, WJVA (etc) classics you'll see they had this knack. It just somehow is easier on the eye to look at.

 

Yours is a great pic notwithstanding - but you did ask for thoughts, so there you go!

That is certainly better. I think that having finally penetrated the gloom without melting things, I just wanted to get in as much as possible, but the extra cropping certainly gives a much more acceptable result.

[great northern]

I think that's a superb shot, given the constraints of lighting etc, and very believable indeed, just needs a bit of smoke - if you like that kind of thing...

 

gilbert-PN002.jpg

Very nice Al. I suspect though that a lot of the time there was far more smoke than that under the roof. I wonder how people put up with it? Must have been absolutely choking some of the time.

[great northern]

Re the arcade - all very interesting. I'm just about to tackle an equivalent-ish canopy which covered the north end of plats 1 & 2 at the north end of Grantham. It was present in my (pre-war) era but very definitely wasn't there in the BR era - it collapsed under the weight of snow in the winter of 1946!

My first visits to Grantham would have been in 1956, one one of those new fangled DMU things. We always ran into Platform 1, and my memory obstinately insists that it was dark under there? Could there still have been a bit of the canopy in place? The more I think about it, I'm sure it was not all open to the sky.

[LNER4479]

My first visits to Grantham would have been in 1956, one one of those new fangled DMU things. We always ran into Platform 1, and my memory obstinately insists that it was dark under there? Could there still have been a bit of the canopy in place? The more I think about it, I'm sure it was not all open to the sky.

Interesting! The 1950 aerial photos from the Britain from Above website definitely show the old canopy as having gone. I'm not sure though what the exact canopy configuration was right at the buffer stops of platform 1? It's not the most photographed area of the station! Maybe you were starting to come under the shadow of the existing plat 2 (now plat 1) canopy?

[great northern]

The usual Sunday photo shoot did not take place, as I had the pleasure of a visit from Peter Leyland (Gravy Train), bearing goodies.   An enjoyable day ensued, basically me watching him work. The result is the addition of two more bits of detail, small, but for me at least, very significant, and visually out of proportion to their size. We shall start in the District Engineer's area. This has caused much frustration and head scratching, as it is always in the background of photos, and slightly different camera angles show entirely different views. However, one of Andrew C Ingram's photos does give a better view. I've shown it in full before, but for today's purposes it has been heavily cropped. It still however remains Andrew's copyright, and should not be further reproduced.

The points of particular interest are that hut, and the curving bit of fencing. This is quite a late photo, so a second hut which butted up to this one in my period is not shown. I do have images showing both, but alas no copyright permission to share them. Anyway, based on the very limited information I was able to give to Peter, he has produced the results shown below.

View of the other side of the surviving hut. I did stress to Peter that I was not looking for complete accuracy, as the necessary information to allow that was not available. Nevertheless, he scratch built the windows you see here, as he didn't have anything ready made that looked quite right.

This view shows both huts, and the fencing so far completed. At the other end of the building it ran right along to Spital Bridge, so that job will have to wait. The image shows the perennial problem that occurs. I have no doubt at all that the fence was not in pristine condition, but as usual the camera shows up any small gaps, and it just looks wrong, although it is right!  I'll leave it to Peter when he next visits as to whether a bit of judicious filling should occur. This was the last job of the day, and time was running out, so I'm not at all concerned that it may need a bit of fettling.

a heavily cropped view from a slightly different angle.

Why the gap?Dunno. I can't find a photo which shows whether or not there was a gate across the track, or whether the fence continued to butt up against the next building. Presumably it was there to deter trespassers coming across the track at night from the West side, with a view to helping themselves to materials stored in there. The deterrent on the other side was the high wall on the boundary with the street beyond, so I think this to be the most likely reason for its existence.

Just another view.

And a locomotive, just for those who may be suffering withdrawal symptoms. The usual caveat applies to these shots, - this area is work in progress and there is much still to be done. Who knows, this may inspire me to actually get on with some of it.

 

These were not the only additions yesterday, but enough for the time being I think. I'll post more later, and shall also which to pose a serious question for your consideration.

Edited August 24, 2015 by great northern

[LNER4479]

The usual Sunday photo shoot did not take place, as I had the pleasure of a visit from Peter Leyland (Gravy Train), bearing goodies.

 

This view shows both huts, and the fencing so far completed. At the other end of the building it ran right along to Spital Bridge, so that job will have to wait. The image shows the perennial problem that occurs. I have no doubt at all that the fence was not in pristine condition, but as usual the camera shows up any small gaps, and it just looks wrong, although it is right!  I'll leave it to Peter when he next visits as to whether a bit of judicious filling should occur. This was the last job of the day, and time was running out, so I'm not at all concerned that it may need a bit of fettling.

I think you're being very harsh on yourselves there GN. I think it looks superb - the so galled gaps in the fencing to me add to the look immeasurably and do in fact portray the air of a non-pristine-ness.

 

Great work (as always) by Peter. The little background detailing items are so important in the overall setting of the scene (as I'm finding out myself right now!) so its nice to see the camera trained on stuff like this every now and then. They're just as much a part of the model as any ill-kempt Thompson pacific that rolls into view (IMHO)

Edited August 24, 2015 by LNER4479

[jwealleans]

just as much a part of the model as any ill-kempt Thompson pacific

... and, frankly, much better to look at.

[great northern]

... and, frankly, much better to look at.

Ouch. That guarantees a three page response from SAC Martin. Wait a minute though, he's not on here any more, is he?

[jwealleans]

Is he not?

[Anthony]

Dear Gilbert

 

Looking again at the photograph of the original, is there not a doubling up of the fencing at the right-hand end as you look at it?  Would this perhaps have been either a push-across/sliding section, or maybe a hinged gate of some sort?

 

I think it justifies your adding something there, which would seem to be logical?

 

Love the fence so far - keep it rough!!  I think we all have the inclination to perfectionise (!) everything, but the more I look at old photographs, the scruffier everything seems to be.

 

Whatever you do, it's all wonderful.

 

 

Anthony