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Peterborough North

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Without wishing to be argumentative Gilbert,that's no t strictly true. Grantham was unique in this country for being  the birthplace  of one Derek Betts, NO I digress. The means of turning locomotives was a Scissors Crossing as opposed to a Triangle.

Kind Regards,That One DB.

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5 hours ago, great northern said:

One other factor is involved here. There wasn't a turntable at New England. There was a triangle instead, as at Grantham.  I have looked this up to make sure I'm right folks.

Ah, I stand corrected. I had half an idea that it was a triangle but I didn’t bother to check . I think makes no difference to the need ( or perhaps drivers preference ) to turn the loco.

We had a similar sort of discussion on another thread when someone mentioned that the big tanks on the LBSCR always seem to be photographed chimney first. 

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2 hours ago, CUTLER2579 said:

Without wishing to be argumentative Gilbert,that's no t strictly true. Grantham was unique in this country for being  the birthplace  of one Derek Betts, NO I digress. The means of turning locomotives was a Scissors Crossing as opposed to a Triangle.

Kind Regards,That One DB.

Could someone explain for the benefit of this ignoramous (i.e. me) how a scissors crossing can be used to turn an engine?

 

Lloyd

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, FarrMan said:

Could someone explain for the benefit of this ignoramous (i.e. me) how a scissors crossing can be used to turn an engine?

 

Lloyd

Hi Lloyd

 

One must remember that Grantham's famous resident was not for turning, so the turn table was removed. With an allocation of pacifics and many visiting ones the turntable was too small. Instead of installing a suitable sized one ( I do not know why) there was a strange triangle scissors crossing arrangement. The 1965 OS map shows this layout despite the tracks having already been lifted. https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/491383/334905/12/100954

Edit you will need to zoom out

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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There was a turntable at Grantham depot originally, in fact it had a 70ft one for turning Pacifics and other big engines, but the foundations under the pivot collapsed and the ground beneath it was judged unsuitable for a new foundation, so the turning triangle scissors crossing type layout was installed instead, in 1951.

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3 minutes ago, 31A said:

There was a turntable at Grantham depot originally, in fact it had a 70ft one for turning Pacifics and other big engines, but the foundations under the pivot collapsed and the ground beneath it was judged unsuitable for a new foundation, so the turning triangle scissors crossing type layout was installed instead, in 1951.

Thanks Steve.

 

 Before typing I should have looked in my GNR loco shed book which has Grantham in it. :read:

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1 hour ago, great northern said:

Today we played golf. There was a starter. He said the only thing he really needed to tell us that we were playing off yellow (forward) tees. He said that twice. Jolly good, we thought, after all it is a fun competition. We did rather well, but when we got in we were told that the competition was off white(back) tees, and that we were disqualified. Our protests were in vain, but it turned out we wouldn't have been in the prizes anyway. The guy who gave us the duff gen had disappeared, but we know where to find him.

 

On the back of that train from Harwich is a BSK. Appropriately for a train from the GE it is a short brake. It is also very nice, so it was photographed.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_06/276666334_12GEbrake.JPG.0101fa297702316216ea149b4dcd8ad9.JPG

 

Hi Gilbert

 

They are as common as muck, even I have a half made one. It is a cut down Hornby "shortie" Gresley. I have also worked out that with some work to the corridor side I can make a GE section FK and a "normal" SK from two Hornby "shortie"Cks plus the left over bits from my BS+CL twin made from the same source.

100_5802a.jpg.3a3bb00492b717c73d4b26f1b5f8e291.jpg

A little bit of filler is needed in the roof department.

100_5803a.jpg.5aeb45e73aab275c4dc3af2c63e1a1e1.jpg

 

 

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Hi Clive,

 

The BS+CL sounds great interesting. Can you show or direct me to a picture?

 

Andy

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15 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Lloyd

 

One must remember that Grantham's famous resident was not for turning, so the turn table was removed. With an allocation of pacifics and many visiting ones the turntable was too small. Instead of installing a suitable sized one ( I do not know why) there was a strange triangle scissors crossing arrangement. The 1965 OS map shows this layout despite the tracks having already been lifted. https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/491383/334905/12/100954

Edit you will need to zoom out

Clive, many thanks for this explanation. So it is in effect a triangle narrowed in one direction by using a scissors crossover. This now makes sense to me.

 

Lloyd

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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Hi Clive,

 

The BS+CL sounds great interesting. Can you show or direct me to a picture?

 

Andy

Hi Andy

 

They did appear about three years ago on "Sir's" thread, in fact photographed by him on LB.

 

I hope Gilbert doesn't mind, but I think these coaches would be of interest to many who follow this thread, after all they were built for Kings Cross outer suburban services and could well have found themselves as far north as Peterborough. They are based on diagrams 107 (Brake Second) and 108 (Composite Lavatory), I will apologise now because without checking I plonked the CL body on back to front when taking the photos. The posh passengers end should be towards the J50 which busily shunting them.

100_5819a.jpg.55d20756db9d81c624904957f6b3c207.jpg

 

Unlike the CL of bogie coaches there was no side corridor where all passengers had access to the toilet. Only the two compartments either side of the loo could spend a penny. So using a Hornby or Kirk CL body would be wrong.

 

100_5820a.jpg.2af85bffb0518f98b64353a201a94d75.jpg

 

100_5822a.jpg.bed2789a2318edff723b17e65163583e.jpg

 

The sides are mirror images of each other. The CL was made from 2 Hornby "shortie" CKs and the BS from 2 BCKs. The fourth compartment on the BS despite the 1 on the door is a second/third class one. The odd thing about the Hornby shorties is the compartments are correct size, they appear to have made the toilets shorter and on the corridor side made the windows short. With the compartment sizes being right they are ideal for cut and shut non-gangway coaches of the types not available.

 

100_5824a.jpg.0a516fa2da1a92a0d7f852e405ea9f59.jpg

The new chassis is simply some plastic card laminated. I have reused the Hornby bogies, to me they look like Gresley bogies. I believe the center one should be a heavy duty one but on a moving train can you tell if a bogie is a heavy duty one?

 

100_5825a.jpg.3442d7c97a23ecd8562a9ad5e8b3ff6f.jpg

The center coupling, pivot or what ever is very simple.

 

100_5826a.jpg.82a9ced496f4a3fa59cd5cd80a9aca7d.jpg

The bodies, still waiting the beading on the ends and on the van end, that is sheer laziness on my behalf as the micro strip is sat just behind the photographer. Interior is still to be made, it will not be fancy. I have reused the Hornby roofs, I found by cutting the roof at the point where the dome end starts they work out the right length for 51 ft non gangway coaches, and more to the point the ventilators are almost in the right places, so I ain't gonna move them. 

 

Thanks Gilbert for allowing me to share this on your thread.

 

 

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On 19/06/2019 at 08:45, great northern said:

If Keith Pirt had been at PN now, we can all be sure where his camera would have been pointing. Our south end man also wanted to record the shine on Lord Faringdon, and a five minute stop gave him plenty of time.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_06/1509035418_14342.JPG.d022b73d5b78f87ef2f1d7ebee6b8a4e.JPG

 

After 60034 left, there was just a four minute wait before 60039 came in with the Up Northumbrian.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_06/1887122374_15391.JPG.cbe6102bbe4108090dda37f3337eed66.JPG

 

That headboard looked straight, both to my eye and through the viewfinder, but obviously it wasn't.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Gilbert

 

Some nice photos, what a photographer Keith Pirt was, his photos were just stunning he had a style of his own.

 

I can always tell a KP photo just be the quality and composition.

 

Regards

 

David 

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On 19/06/2019 at 22:33, great northern said:

The Northumbrian contains the third triplet to be found on PN, and is unique in having been fitted with a standing bar, though that may not be obvious in the picture below.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_06/2114369515_1triplet.JPG.b316e4c6d6d419e2ccea2cd7d8188bb8.JPG

 

Sandwich also got snapped again as it went round the bend.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_06/887730091_239.JPG.3df30d0b09e9ad117aae272f820c5bda.JPG

I assume the ex-1938 'Scotsman' triplet in 'The Northumbrian' is made from Rupert Brown's sides, etc? 

 

By 1958 (in fact, from its painting into BR maroon a year or two earlier) it would have carried the BR roundel below each car's branding.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 17:30, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Lloyd

 

One must remember that Grantham's famous resident was not for turning, so the turn table was removed. With an allocation of pacifics and many visiting ones the turntable was too small. Instead of installing a suitable sized one ( I do not know why) there was a strange triangle scissors crossing arrangement. The 1965 OS map shows this layout despite the tracks having already been lifted. https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/491383/334905/12/100954

Edit you will need to zoom out

I think that is all housing now having lain derelict for a long time. However, at least Grantham still retains some staion atmosphere unlike the horribly modern(?) Peterborough.

P

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I assume the ex-1938 'Scotsman' triplet in 'The Northumbrian' is made from Rupert Brown's sides, etc? 

 

By 1958 (in fact, from its painting into BR maroon a year or two earlier) it would have carried the BR roundel below each car's branding.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

It is Tony, and John Houlden built it. As to the roundels, we are back to a situation we have discussed before. I relied on the builder to do the necessary research, instead of instructing him precisely. I have changed my approach now, but there are still things like this to be found on the layout, I'm afraid.

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1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think that is all housing now having lain derelict for a long time. However, at least Grantham still retains some staion atmosphere unlike the horribly modern(?) Peterborough.

P

It is great that places like Grantham Newark and Retford still retain a good bit of their GN heritage, isn't it Phil?  The problem at Peterborough though was, I believe that the main buildings opposite the hotel were found to be riddled with rot of some kind, and thus had to be hastily demolished. No doubt the conspiracy theorists would tell us that was untrue though.

 

I visited Peterborough no more than a couple of times in my spotting days, so my recollections are hazy, but at Grantham one of my abiding memories is being able to look across to the shed and watch the goings on there. For some reason, a vista of soulless modern housing is something I find even more distasteful than when the area was just derelict. It was easier to see what had been in the mind's eye then.

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40 minutes ago, great northern said:

It is Tony, and John Houlden built it. As to the roundels, we are back to a situation we have discussed before. I relied on the builder to do the necessary research, instead of instructing him precisely. I have changed my approach now, but there are still things like this to be found on the layout, I'm afraid.

Thanks Gilbert,

 

I'd forgotten that................ I forget too many things these days!

 

Interestingly, my '38 FS triplet is from the same source, on both counts.

 

1927021637_1938Scotsmantriplet.jpg.bbbe682a43d0dedc3a5f343399056181.jpg

 

As part of a barter, John built most of this for me. I built the bogies/running gear, as well as (finally - they're not in place here) fitting the handles and grab rails as appropriate. 

 

1347664897_1938Scotsmantriplet.jpg.b7f65b5f6c92e2c3ce0c7ad9763eeb47.jpg

 

As part of a further barter, Geoff Haynes painted it for me (look out for Geoff's forthcoming Crowood book on painting models). I subsequently glazed the cars and made the interiors, writing it up in BRM some little time ago. Because most of the work in this set is not mine, I think I can say that it makes a splendid model, as does yours. 

 

In many ways, I've come across your predicament before, in that a commissioned model does not live up to 'expectations' on the part of he/she who 'pays the piper'. If you recall, I've had to add brandings to some other carriages you've had built by others. You are not unique, and I've done similar things on the behalf of other friends. We've discussed this before, but any painting I've commissioned has been accompanied by notes/instructions/photographs so that there is no ambiguity with regard to accuracy. I'm glad you're taking that approach now.

 

As for your triplet set; the next time I'm over, I'll fit the roundels. It really is a doddle.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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