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great northern

Peterborough North

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Hmmm... "stood the test of time", huh?

A split nomination for me.

For passenger stock, LU '38 stock. Still moving paying passengers 82 years later, albeit in a different location than originally deployed.

For freight, it has to be the humble 08. A design that dates from the 1930s, and all examples were built between 1952 and 1962. More importantly, there has /never been a fleet replacement/. These aren't a few survivors working alongside their replacements, we simply never bought any replacements, and they are still working.

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HST, it has to be a HST. There is no other locomotive or unit or train that has done basically the same task day in day out for over 40 years. 

 

Everything else has seen a great decline and the fleets still running mainline today are vastly reduced when compared to their heydays. Time is now finally catching up on the HST but I'm sure there will still be plenty running fast InterCity services for many years to come.

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11 hours ago, great northern said:

The poll was again decided by an overnight vote from down under, which meant that Class 20 edged ahead of Class 15 by 8 votes to 7. There was only one vote for a shunter!

 

So, today's poll, the idea for which came from Trevor Page, and an excellent one it is. This may exercise your little grey cells a bit more, and it would be interesting to see the reasons for your decision, not just the loco concerned.

 

Here we go then. Designs which have stood the test of time.  So we are looking for locos  that were, or are, still doing the work for which they were designed at the beginning of their lives, many years on. Passenger or goods work, both are equally important. Which have had the greatest impact on the future of our railways, and which most influenced the development of design after their inception?

I'd have to say the GW castles for steam 1st ones built in 1923 with batches being built into BR days. During this period they also remained in front line passenger service. Surely a record for an express passenger class.

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My vote is for the class 86 (Hungarian class 460) , in service since 1965 and still in use with Freightliner, Floyd Zrt in Hungary and Bulmarket in Bulgaria.

 

They revolutionised the WCML, embarrassing BR having spent so much on other AC electrics which were made redundant within years of being introduced.  They hauled the MKIII coach making them equivalent to an HST in comfort, and far less noise and fumes. They are also very capable freight engines. 

 

Of course the humble 350 hp 0-6-0 shunter is also high up there alongside the MR Johnson Goods, the 2F.

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G'day Folks

 

Not the Greatest lover of 'Flying Scotsman'.................but at what! 97, and still pulling mainline trains not a bad innings.

 

manna

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HST, it has to be a HST. There is no other locomotive or unit or train that has done basically the same task day in day out for over 40 years. 

Well said by  "LNER &BR" . Although the J72 was built in two centuries and lasted almost until the end of steam in the North East, it did not have the impact t on transport of the Class 43.

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When it comes to domination of the ECML, the Gresley A1/A3 and the HST are in equal place for duration of service.  
When I was younger I derided the HST for replacing the Deltic’s, but you have to admire the engineering.

Also, consider the HST did all its high speed running on conventional railway, (straightened out in places), not dedicated High Speed Lines.  Yes, compared to the latest items, the acceleration curve is poor, but a HST looks far more impressive dashing across the landscape.

 

Paul

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The poll result. I'm not surprised at the identity of the winner, but I am at the margin of victory. HST gathered 11 votes, and nothing else got more than two or three. Very few steam locos even got a mention, even though there were some which were still performing the same duties, and very competently too, for which they had been designed 40 years previously.

 

However, HST may have ensured the survival of at least long distance rail travel in the UK, and for that we should be very grateful.

 

What to do today? The remaining suggestion in my inbox is that we finish off diesels by considering the various prototypes built from the late 1940s onwards. Of course the Fell may just romp away with this:mosking:, but let's give it a go. The most attractive design of diesel prototype, perhaps with innovative features thrown in. Some of them didn't work, and others didn't lead to anything further, but that is irrelevant here. The most striking and innovative please.

 

Any more ideas please? This does seem to be giving interest and pleasure, so I'd like to keep it going. Two very good suggestions gave us yesterday and today's polls, so more in that vein if you can.

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Prototype Diesels - has to be DP1 Deltic.

 

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Prototypes - hmm should we specify that as 'Prototypes that never turned into production machines?" otherwise DP1 and Falcon are the obvious winners as they went on to become production machines.

 

Could we even exclude them as really they were more 'pre-production' models than prototypes?

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9 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Prototypes - hmm should we specify that as 'Prototypes that never turned into production machines?" otherwise DP1 and Falcon are the obvious winners as they went on to become production machines.

 

Could we even exclude them as really they were more 'pre-production' models than prototypes?

Falcon was a Type 4 prototype in a similar way to Lion and DP2. However the 47 was rather different to all three, so I’m not convinced any could be said to have become production machines. And you might have to rule out DP2 if you use your criteria. 
 

We could just accept that ‘Deltic’ will win by a mile and vote for second place?!

 

Andy

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I must be too late for the poll, but what about the humble J15?

Introduced by the GER as a Y14, in 7/1883, with the final 4 being withdrawn in 9/1962. There were 27 batches built up to 1913, giving a total of 259 built. No.930 was erectected in a record time of 9hr 45 mins, went into steam for the camera, then straight into 50000 miles of revenue service. And of course 65462 remains in service at Weybourne on the NNR.

 

Stewart

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Posted (edited)

I'm sure I am too late for the poll too, but I would argue that the Saint, essentially the first successful 2 cylinder express and later mixed traffic loco in the UK changed the face of steam engine design for good. A small number were still at work nearly 50 years later, but their direct derivatives were with us until the end of steam in the UK: Halls, Black Fives, BR standard fives et al. 

 

Best wishes,

 

Alastair

Edited by A Murphy
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32 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Prototypes - hmm should we specify that as 'Prototypes that never turned into production machines?" otherwise DP1 and Falcon are the obvious winners as they went on to become production machines.

 

Could we even exclude them as really they were more 'pre-production' models than prototypes?

Striking and innovative Peter, rather than successful, were the criteria. I don't think we could exclude DP1 and Deltic. As it happens they led further, whereas others did not, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were the most striking visually, or the most innovative. Some others may have been too innovative for their own good.

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G'day Folks

 

For a Prototype diesel engine 10800...........

 

manna

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I’m going with Deltic, a very good design which enabled 100 mph running for ordinary passenger trains. Excellent power to weight ratio too.

 

Rob.

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So if we're going to follow Gilbert's advice, which I've always found very valuable, of 'Striking and innovative, rather than successful,' then it has to be Kestrel

 

Falcon fails because it was successful in its eventual guise, as were DP1 and DP2.

Lion could be a contender, but it was too similar in looks to Falcon, and anyway my Heljan model of it kept falling off the points and had to go back.

 

Totally daft I know, but apart from Lion, for the above reason, I actually have models of all the others as well as 10201, which again fails the 'successful' test as it went on to form the basis of the 'Peaks' or was it the Class 40?

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Posted (edited)

Lion was closest to cl.47, different electrics but the same Sulzer engine I believe. Falcon had Maybach Md655 engines as in Westerns but with electric transmission. Dp2 was the forerunner of Cl.50 but the production series were made more complex by addition of many electronic features which caused many problems.

I think it has to be Deltic, dp1, even though it only led to 22 locos. They showed the way forward, high speed, high mileage a foretaste of what the h st would bring.Bazza

Edited by Bazza
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13 hours ago, Denbridge said:

I'd have to say the GW castles for steam 1st ones built in 1923 with batches being built into BR days. During this period they also remained in front line passenger service. Surely a record for an express passenger class.

I would go one step earlier and say the GWR Star class. Not only did they do pretty much the work they were designed to do for nearly half a century, but were the basis of the  Castles and Kings that were in front line service till the end of steam, and to a lesser extent one might say influential in LMS design via Stanier. 

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