Newbryford's mostly Yellow workbench - "it's a drag, man......."

[big jim]

I really need to continue with my lmsfan mentor, might go for a UTU as well at some point as mine is a butchered hachette coach which looks ok (even though it’s not finished) but the finish in his lots are fantastic compared to my botching! 

[newbryford]

Thanks to those that came and had a chat at the DEMU Showcase.

Hopefully I've encouraged a few to have a go at graffiti - on modele obviously!

 

Pat caught me doing some work on a Dapol JNA Falcon (copied from one of his pictures!).

Speeded up a little bit...

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by newbryford

[Shaun66]

Was great to have a chat and see your amazing work in the flesh, also thanks for the 3D print for me to practise on, just need to find the time to do it.

[Fordbank]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56249446@N06/53141818387/in/pool-1234820@N20/

 

'Life imitates art.' Won't be long then.

[newbryford]

I experienced a problem at Wakefield Ex with my graffitied AS HYA set.

 

After a couple exhibition's worth of use, they had started to drag a bit, so I cleaned out the axle ends with light use of a reamer and found some "debris" on the reamer tool. I hoped that cleaning them out would improve them.  As it's already a relatively heavy set, I had to make sure a Hattons 66 was diagrammed onto the rake, as a Bachmann 66 would struggle to pull them.

 

Cleaning them out worked for awhile.

 

Three exhibitions on and one of my locos (a Hattons 66) was cutting out  (decoder shutting down) whilst hauling a rake of 20 shorty HYAs. When I checked the rolling resistance of the wagons, I couldn't believe how difficult they had become to pull by hand and fully understood why the loco was struggling.

 

I carried out a rough and ready test with a similar sized wagon (yes , it's one of my cutdown HTA/HRA conversions and is a bit lighter),[*] but the result is quite graphic. If the HYA had similar characteristics to the HYA/HRA, then it would have had a similar (maybe longer) run-on with the higher mass.

 

 

After the video was taken, the set was immediately removed from the layout from a loco reliability and decoder longevity point of view. I could have made the rake shorter, but that would just be using a sticking plaster over the cut.

BTW - the 20-wagon HRA set has had more running than the HYA rake without cleaning the axle ends.

Whilst the HYA is heavier than the HTA/HRA, [*] it only amplifies the extra rolling resistance when the axles start to drag.

I've always been impressed with the free-running of the Bachmann HTA.

 

 The HYA rake has been temporarily withdrawn for modification. I will look at cutting down the size of the fitted weight to reduce the effect on a dragging wagon and make them comparable to the HTA/HRA [*] and also look at fitting brass bearing cups. Or maybe something else. It will be a winter project before the set hopefully re-emerges at an exhibition in 2024.

(They have already been modified to prevent the door gear mouldings catching the wheels that caused drag on curves as documented elsewhere)

 

One of my layout team has a rake of 20 biomass hoppers for use on a future layout. They will be looked at before they are let loose to the general public in 2024.

 

Whilst not a direct comparison,  a similar sized rake of Revolution TEAs are still quite free-running, as is the 20-odd AS PCA rake (OK, it's approximately half the axle count of the HYA set, but less than half the drag) even both sets have had far more running hours on the layout. 

 

(Many years ago, I had a similar increasing drag issue with a set of Bachmann VGAs and after conversations with Bachmann, this was traced to the grade of plastic used)

 

Hopefully, I'll report back in a few months with an update on the HYAs.

 

[*] edit - see a couple of posts below, the HYA is of a similar weight to the HRA! The extra drag is the real killer.

Edited December 8, 2023 by newbryford

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 hours ago, newbryford said:

look at fitting brass bearing cups

 

Long term the only way to go, especially on an exhibition layout on which the wagons do a fair mileage.

I'm re-bogieing my Bachmann Mk1 Bachmann coaches for exactly the same reason, a steel pinpoint axle running in a plastic cup is a recipe for disaster eventually. Kudos to Rapido for eliminating the problem at source.

 

Mike.

[newbryford]

 

Time to start improving my dragging HYAs.

First stage is to use some of this - after doing some control comparison videos.

 

 

As I now have a side project based on the other side of the pond, I've looked into the NMRA recommended practices for weight. Even though it refers to H0 (and others), the larger prototypical physical size of US cars makes them comparable to that of UK wagons when the scale difference is taken into account.

 

https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/rp-20.1.pdf

 

A shorty HYA is approximately 190mm/7.48 inches across buffers, so the weight works out to 4.74 ounces/134g

The short HYA weighs around 145g, so it's slightly above the NMRA numbers, so not too far away to cause concern.

 

As a comparison, my short Bachmann HTA to HRA conversion - seen in the video a couple of posts earlier weighed in at 149g.

My initial comments were that the HYA was heavier than the HRA, but proved incorrect when weighed!

 

So - the revised conclusion from the quickie video test is that the drag/friction from the axles is the main difference, so efforts will be made to make the Accurascale wagons more free running.

 

For further reference, I only run my stock for any length of time at exhibitions. (Apart from minimal short-term test running elsewhere)

Typically, the trains will run about 1 in 12 of those that cross the front on Deadmans Lane for one circuit only, so they are not subject to any extended running on say a permanent layout.

 

The HRA set has run at 7 shows without any attention or noticeable change in drag load, the HYA set has run at 5 shows requiring a "cleanout" after only two shows and withdrawal from the layout during the 5th show as they were dragging so badly. My hope is that the HYA set will perform similarly to the HRA set at the end of my experiments/modifications,

 

. I did have a conversation with a fellow rmwebber at the recent Blackburn show that alluded to a similar problem with his HYAs and I'd be interested to hear from anyone reading this, that is running 15+ wagon rakes and their experiences.

 

The club layout is intending to run two sets - 20/21 wagons - of HYA/IIA/Biomass hoppers, as well as at least one 27-set of short HYAs, so a long term solution to reducing friction is desirable.

 

More to come in the next few days/weeks.

Edited December 8, 2023 by newbryford

[newbryford]

21 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

 

More to come in the next few days/weeks.

 

First test done.

Three parallel lengths of track on a 12mm MDF base. I don't know the slope - I just increased it until all three wagons moved when released.

I mus admit to being quite surprised at the way the HTA/HRA sets off compared to the new HYA.

 

 I will retain the slow HYA  - which along with the HRA -  was first out of the stockbox,  as an unmodified "control" whilst I experiment with one of the another HYAs - second out of the stockbox.

 

 

[newbryford]

 

The bogie on the left is from one of the dragging HYAs, the one on the right is a new/unused bogie - There is some visible residue in the left pinpoint. 

First stage is to clean it out and measure the difference.

 

For clarity - when I weather wagons, I remove the wheels and place a small piece of masking tape over the axle pinpoint to prevent ingress of paint.

 

Edited February 4 by newbryford

[big jim]

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

 

 

Nu-Bry’s drag race? 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by big jim

[newbryford]

I have carried out some cleaning and graphiting and this is the result.

Near - untouched after 5 shows. Middle - cleaned out with IPA and a small brush. Far - cleaned as middle and a tiny dab of graphite added into the pinpoint.

 

 

The graphited one is the best and half the rake have now been done, along with  other half only cleaned, (I have retained an untouched "control") but I will refrain from doing them all with the magic powder until the longer term test running has taken place - which will not be until DL's next shows. York at Easter, DEMU Showcase at Sutton Coldfield and Perth - Both in June.

[newbryford]

I've managed to do some work on my (second version) NMT set (and ongoing for about 6 years!.

As long as I can get the scanner box finished for 97993 in the next week or so, then I'm hopeful of the set appearing at York show at Easter.

 

[LongRail]

Mick you can’t rush these things ;)

[newbryford]

On 17/12/2023 at 19:12, newbryford said:

graphited one is the best and half the rake have now been done, along with  other half only cleaned, (I have retained an untouched "control") but I will refrain from doing them all with the magic powder until the longer term test running has taken place - which will not be until DL's next shows. York at Easter, DEMU Showcase at Sutton Coldfield and Perth - Both in June.

 

Deadmans Lane is out at York this coming Easter weekend - we shall see how the full load running tests go....

 

[newbryford]

On 04/02/2024 at 14:00, LongRail said:

Mick you can’t rush these things ;)

 

Unfortunately, the NMT  won't be ready for York. I was struck down with a lurgy that meant no modelling for the last 10 days or so - preventing the set being finished.

DEMU Showcase is the next target.

[ELTEL]

Looking forward to a catch up over the weekend at York 

 

Terry