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ModelRail USTC 0-6-0 Tank Loco Project USA

Andy Y

By Andy Y,
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adb968008

adb968008

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Whilst a OO gauge s160 sounds good, reality is for UK modellers, it's a very limited number of liveries (black or grey) to represent a 4 year wartime period in the UK.

For post war modellers, theres only one, periodically working the LMR only, for 5 years, between 1952-57.

 

The s160 was unknown to the UK enthusiast for 33 years until 5820 came to Keighley in 1977, followed by Greek/Hungarian/Polish and Chinese imports in the late 80's/90s.

 

In preservation theres 5 preserved ones that have worked in the U.K. so far (5820 in grey, 6046/5197 in a very nice, but maybe not accurate Black, 2253 in usatc Black and 3278 which was restored in LMR blue as WD 701.

 

Its said the 0-6-0 s100 was a run of 6000 models over 10 liveries / variants, covering a period of 1942-2017.

 

Assuming all five of the preserved ones were modelled (which gives 4 liveries, 2 of which are preservation only) then it's down to different running numbers and duplication to sell enough of the rest.

 

How many people would buy 2,3,4 s160's ? (Given 2 together in the U.K. has only happened once in the last 72 years), especially considering the latest one is £340, discounted you can get for £300 and such a OO gauge one is likely to be the same.

 

Would there be enough demand for a fictional 95820 in BR black as was for a few weeks a few years ago ?, how about both LMR variants ..WD700 in the 50's to go with the MHR's 1980/90s WD701 ?

You could try PKP livery as 2253 ran in this at the NYMR ?, but for all the European, Asia, US liveries that market will surely go to Rocos new s160 which is HO and suited to those modellers.

 

The UK only has so many s160's because they were cheap, fitted the loading gauge and in working order when acquired by the various preserved lines, 3 more have yet to run in the U.K, though 2 of these are very unlikely), that there's more working s160's than A4's right now is down to coincidence & economics, not popularity, just like the 8 or so PKP ferrum's imported which have no U.K. History.

 

Several times I've heard rumour of an s160 going mainline! Even as far as a london suburbs railtour mentioned, but since that climate changed I suspect that's more of a dream than reality now, but even then would it sell 6000 models ?

 

Now to myself, I bought the one above, was suitably impressed to buy the black one too, but as I have an international element to my collection (I model DB/PKP too) I'm happy to have them in different worlds of my layout.. much as I would like, at £300 I can't bring myself to put isoprop to the "US zone Osterreich" lettering on the tender to make it a pure USATC black one, I do have US numbers too..

 

Personally in HO it's not too bad against OO, I'll post some comparisons in the s160 thread, i have a few flieschmann Bulleids in HO to go with it. I have two HO s100's too, they live separate to my OO ones, but were bought based on acceptance there wasn't a OO one, so never say never eh ?, but until then I'm quite happy to mix and match.

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attachicon.gifRenderedContent-FD3E52EA-C77F-4CC5-8758-B37E0312CC2F.JPG

 

Here's the HO one, £275-300 ready to run.

 

Doesn't look too bad.

Not bad at all. Just my opinion, mind, but I would only buy it if it were 00. I think CJL has said that a large model like this would be too risky for Model Rail, which is a pity. Bachmann seems to have a talent for picking unusual stuff which is a bit out of the ordinary, neatly avoiding duplication yet coming up with something that few people realise thay want until they see it. I wonder. :drag: Baccy? I mean Bachy? 

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No Decorum

No Decorum

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Whilst a OO gauge s160 sounds good, reality is for UK modellers, it's a very limited number of liveries (black or grey) to represent a 4 year wartime period in the UK.

For post war modellers, theres an LMR one, which never left.

 

The s160 was unknown to the UK enthusiast (save for one on the LMR) for 30 years until 5820 came to Keighley, followed by Greek/Hungarian/Polish and Chinese imports in the late 80's/90s.

 

In preservation theres 5 preserved ones that have worked in the U.K. so far (5820 in grey, 6046/5197 in a very nice, but maybe not accurate Black, 2253 in usatc Black and 3278 which was restored in LMR blue as WD 701.

 

Its said the 0-6-0 s100 was a run of 6000 models over 10 liveries / variants.

Assuming all five of the preserved ones were modelled (which gives 4 liveries, 2 of which are preservation only) then it's down to different running numbers and duplication to sell enough of the rest.

 

How many people would buy 2,3,4 s160's ? (Given 2 together in the U.K. has only happened once in the last 72 years), especially considering the latest one is £300 and such a OO gauge one is likely to be the same)

 

Would there be enough demand for a fictional 95820 in BR black as was for a few weeks a few years ago ?, how about both LMR variants ..WD700 in the 50's to go with the MHR's 1980/90s WD701 ?

You could try PKP livery as 2253 ran in this at the NYMR ?, but for all the European, Asia, US liveries that market will surely go to Rocos new s160 which is HO and suited to those modellers.

 

The UK only has so many s160's because they were cheap, fitted the loading gauge and in working order when acquired by the various preserved lines, 3 more have yet to run in the U.K, though 2 of these are very unlikely), that there's more working s160's than A4's right now is down to coincidence, not popularity.

The voice of reason. :cry:

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TheQ

TheQ

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Whilst a OO gauge s160 sounds good, reality is for UK modellers, it's a very limited number of liveries (black or grey) to represent a 4 year wartime period in the UK.

For post war modellers, theres only one, periodically working the LMR only, for 5 years, between 1952-57.

 

The s160 was unknown to the UK enthusiast for 33 years until 5820 came to Keighley in 1977, followed by Greek/Hungarian/Polish and Chinese imports in the late 80's/90s.

 

In preservation theres 5 preserved ones that have worked in the U.K. so far (5820 in grey, 6046/5197 in a very nice, but maybe not accurate Black, 2253 in usatc Black and 3278 which was restored in LMR blue as WD 701.

 

Its said the 0-6-0 s100 was a run of 6000 models over 10 liveries / variants, covering a period of 1942-2017.

 

Assuming all five of the preserved ones were modelled (which gives 4 liveries, 2 of which are preservation only) then it's down to different running numbers and duplication to sell enough of the rest.

 

How many people would buy 2,3,4 s160's ? (Given 2 together in the U.K. has only happened once in the last 72 years), especially considering the latest one is £340, discounted you can get for £300 and such a OO gauge one is likely to be the same.

 

Would there be enough demand for a fictional 95820 in BR black as was for a few weeks a few years ago ?, how about both LMR variants ..WD700 in the 50's to go with the MHR's 1980/90s WD701 ?

You could try PKP livery as 2253 ran in this at the NYMR ?, but for all the European, Asia, US liveries that market will surely go to Rocos new s160 which is HO and suited to those modellers.

 

The UK only has so many s160's because they were cheap, fitted the loading gauge and in working order when acquired by the various preserved lines, 3 more have yet to run in the U.K, though 2 of these are very unlikely), that there's more working s160's than A4's right now is down to coincidence & economics, not popularity, just like the 8 or so PKP ferrum's imported which have no U.K. History.

 

Several times I've heard rumour of an s160 going mainline! Even as far as a london suburbs railtour mentioned, but since that climate changed I suspect that's more of a dream than reality now, but even then would it sell 6000 models ?

 

Now to myself, I bought the one above, was suitably impressed to buy the black one too, but as I have an international element to my collection (I model DB/PKP too) I'm happy to have them in different worlds of my layout.. much as I would like, at £300 I can't bring myself to put isoprop to the "US zone Osterreich" lettering on the tender to make it a pure USATC black one, I do have US numbers too..

 

Personally in HO it's not too bad against OO, I'll post some comparisons in the s160 thread, i have a few flieschmann Bulleids in HO to go with it. I have two HO s100's too, they live separate to my OO ones, but were bought based on acceptance there wasn't a OO one, so never say never eh ?, but until then I'm quite happy to mix and match.

Still doesn't stop me wanting one, as there was at least one on the line that I am modelling during WW2.

 

I know what will happen I'll start scratch building an S160 then someone will bring one out, Just as happened with my families coal wagons...

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Mark Dickerson

Mark Dickerson

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I'd like a Whitcom diesel as well please. :jester:

Someone's developing a HO scale Whitcomb 65 ton shell on Shapeways but at lowest cab height (could they scale?) - alternatively the grilles would be wrong but it might be possible to kitbash a plastic Linea Models kit. But yes, we're talking RTR Gazelle in OO...

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34theletterbetweenB&D

34theletterbetweenB&D

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... Bachmann seems to have a talent for picking unusual stuff which is a bit out of the ordinary, neatly avoiding duplication yet coming up with something that few people realise thay want until they see it. I wonder. :drag: Baccy? I mean Bachy? 

 But would it outsell the Turbomotive, P1, streamlined P2, U1, the Hush-Hush W1, Bulleid's Leader, Thompson A2/3, Great Bear, The Fell, 10800, class 89, to name some other 'unusual stuff'? That's its real competition I would suggest.

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 But would it outsell the Turbomotive, P1, streamlined P2, U1, the Hush-Hush W1, Bulleid's Leader, Thompson A2/3, Great Bear, The Fell, 10800, class 89, to name some other 'unusual stuff'? That's its real competition I would suggest.

 

That’s a clever way of wish listing without making it obvious. I wonder; would it outsell the gas turbines? :angel:

 

Edit: stray letter removed.

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PhilJ W

PhilJ W

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Someone's developing a HO scale Whitcomb 65 ton shell on Shapeways but at lowest cab height (could they scale?) - alternatively the grilles would be wrong but it might be possible to kitbash a plastic Linea Models kit. But yes, we're talking RTR Gazelle in OO...

The principle differences is in the type of cab fitted, four at least to my knowledge. The earlier ones had wire mesh grills in the side panels of the hoods top and bottom, the later ones had louvres on the top only. The first ones were provided to the British army in North Africa, as well as the mesh side panels they originally had an American type of cab, basically box shaped without the chamfered sides. These followed the British army to Italy where the cabs were cut down and the roof edges chamfered to fit the loading gauge. More were produced in readiness for the D-Day landings, these had a cab similar to the 'cut down' cab and the louvred side panels. The next variation was with an even further lowered cab with the cab roof flush with the hoods. This was achieved by moving the air compressor from beneath the cab floor to a box on the running plate ahead of the cab. After the war the only ones to remain in the UK was the pair from the original batch used on the Longmore Military Railway, they were out of use by the mid 60's. A few went into industrial use in France one of which is preserved but the biggest user was the Italian Railways were the last ones were withdrawn only this century, although they had been re-engined twice, the second time with a single engine more powerful than the two Buda engines originally fitted.

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TheQ

TheQ

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I saw a model of that today at the Norwich Model Railway Show, converted from a Dean goods, i think it was on a layout called War and Peace.
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Nearlymen

Nearlymen

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Interesting thoughts on the S160, I don't think a commercial model would be made but here's a thought. The Roco loco looks ok with OO British outline stock  but the biggest headache for me is height. Now if you were to ignore the difference in length between HO and OO but rescaled the width and height in the form of a replacement 1 piece resin body and a new resin tender body to drop on the existing chassis a very passable loco would result. Ok the length of the loco would be out a little but you could make the tender the correct length to compensate for this. Possibly this would be the most easy route to a 00 'ish S160 but in the long run always expensive. I'm thinking of something like the 'Golden Arrow Production' Resin body kits, mind you getting a firm like Golden arrow to take this on would still be a problem but much easier than getting Roco/Bachmann/Hornby etc to do a loco from scratch ! Thinking about it a bit more, could you cut down a Hornby Railroad 9F chassis to a passable S160 2-8-0 chassis, would be much cheaper if a resin body was available ? Oh well just an idea. Cheerio Clive

Edited by Nearlymen
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34theletterbetweenB&D

34theletterbetweenB&D

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The mechanism from any UK model will lose the effect of the bar frames, just will not have all that airspace under the boiler. The most suitable mechanism for an OO model of the S160, is to use the mechanism from an HO model of the  USRA light mikado (or one of its post WWI relatives), which has 5'3" drivers. Those drivers in HO come out around 18mm diameter, for a near enough scale wheel diameter and coupled wheelbase in OO on which to place a kit S160 body. But that is very rarefied territory nowadays, few indeed up for the cutting and adapting such a project would entail. 

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Nearlymen

Nearlymen

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I Knew that someone would have a better grip on it than me on this and maybe my idea was a bit simplistic but interesting though nevertheless I think if one ignored the bar frame issue but hey ho !.

About 10 years ago I was down Merehead quarry in Somerset watching an S160 and a 9F double head a 1000 ton stone train, which they to be honest romped away with, damn good to watch though ! Very impressive and something I'd like to see again either at 1:1 or 1:76 !!

 

Cheerio

 

Clive

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