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Bachmann Jubilee


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Hi, did jubilee's run secondary routes and/or  did they ever run tender first?.I Have a BLT Layout so no turntable, I  know about rule 1 so  i could run what i like, i would sleep better knowing they may have been used ( even if covering for a failed or repaired loco) thinking of the Bachmann jubilee or a if not suitable perhaps the Hornby black 5

All comments and thoughts appreciated 

Thanks 

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6 hours ago, Balders45 said:

Hi, did jubilee's run secondary routes and/or  did they ever run tender first?.I Have a BLT Layout so no turntable, I  know about rule 1 so  i could run what i like, i would sleep better knowing they may have been used ( even if covering for a failed or repaired loco) thinking of the Bachmann jubilee or a if not suitable perhaps the Hornby black 5

All comments and thoughts appreciated 

Thanks 

If you think a Black 5 is an acceptable alternative, what about a tank loco? They are designed to go backwards as well as forwards. The 2-6-4Ts are impressive machines and you could choose from a Hornby Fowler or Stanier or a Bachmann Ivatt. They are only one power class below the Black 5s. Some Hornby Fowlers were even LMS red, if that’s your fancy. Other tank locos are available.

 

I can understand your liking of Jubilees, though. Beautiful machines with a fascinating history.

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6 hours ago, No Decorum said:

If you think a Black 5 is an acceptable alternative, what about a tank loco? They are designed to go backwards as well as forwards. The 2-6-4Ts are impressive machines and you could choose from a Hornby Fowler or Stanier or a Bachmann Ivatt. They are only one power class below the Black 5s. Some Hornby Fowlers were even LMS red, if that’s your fancy. Other tank locos are available.

 

I can understand your liking of Jubilees, though. Beautiful machines with a fascinating history.

I have a ivatt 2mt tank plus a small prairie, for tender locos I also have a 4f along with the BR std class 4. So a jubilee would be a welcome addition!! 

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No one is going to report you to the model railway police!

 

In reality it was route restrictions that kept heavier main line locos off branchlines; and even if that were not applicable, the shedmaster would hold the loco for its designated mainline turn, and let the branch service bear the delay until a suitable loco could be sent out.

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4 hours ago, Jub45565 said:

There are photos of Alberta (complete with an unlined black tender) pulling the Royal train tender first in 1967... I'll edit this to add some photographic references later on unless anyone beats me to it

I think ive seen a picture of an 8f with a BR lined green tender.. so I guess that matches it up.

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15 hours ago, Jub45565 said:

There are photos of Alberta (complete with an unlined black tender) pulling the Royal train tender first in 1967... I'll edit this to add some photographic references later on unless anyone beats me to it

 

Here's one of 45562 on the empty stock of the Royal train in 1967, with an unlined green tender:

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-lmsr/london-midland-scottish-railway/6p-stanier-4-6-0-jubilee/ea88e1275

 

45562 'Alberta' on the Royal Train at Nidd Bridge 30/5/67

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A branchline isn't a secondary route - it's a  tertiary route.  A jubilee will always look out of place, even if it did happen once in a blue moon.  It doesn't look natural.  There are other models that should have higher consideration; Bachmann 3F 0-6-0, 4F, 3F Jinty, Fairburn tank.  A black five, being a class 5 engine, and generally much more common, would be more likely to turn up at a branch terminus than a class 6 jubilee. 

 

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Depends if you can come up with a reasonable explanation like the branch was upgraded to cope with military traffic in WW1 or WW2 and as it serves a slightly well to do  town there is sufficient demand for a commuter service to the big city; so the short coach set starts out by being drawn tender first to the terminus and then after running round the train to the big city departs, at the first major station reached a longer set of coaches are attached.

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6 hours ago, TonyMay said:

A branchline isn't a secondary route - it's a  tertiary route.  A jubilee will always look out of place, even if it did happen once in a blue moon.  It doesn't look natural.  There are other models that should have higher consideration; Bachmann 3F 0-6-0, 4F, 3F Jinty, Fairburn tank.  A black five, being a class 5 engine, and generally much more common, would be more likely to turn up at a branch terminus than a class 6 jubilee. 

 

You have said everything I've said to myself!!! Life would seem so empty without a jubilee! Need a valid reason ( all be it a sketchy one) 

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55 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Depends if you can come up with a reasonable explanation like the branch was upgraded to cope with military traffic in WW1 or WW2 and as it serves a slightly well to do  town there is sufficient demand for a commuter service to the big city; so the short coach set starts out by being drawn tender first to the terminus and then after running round the train to the big city departs, at the first major station reached a longer set of coaches are attached.

That'll do it, i can start looking for a jubilee now!! Thanks

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On 17/01/2020 at 07:07, pH said:

 

Here's one of 45562 on the empty stock of the Royal train in 1967, with an unlined green tender:

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-lmsr/london-midland-scottish-railway/6p-stanier-4-6-0-jubilee/ea88e1275

 

45562 'Alberta' on the Royal Train at Nidd Bridge 30/5/67

 

Thanks for the correction... I'm sure I have seen a photo of one of the last Holbeck ones paired with a black one... anyhow, back to tender first Jubilees and it was indeed the train on 30/5/67.  On page 29 of the OPC 'The Power of the Jubilees'.  '...on 30th May 1967, Holbeck turned out no. 45562 to take the Duke of Edinburgh down the Ripon line. It was photographed returning with the empty stock from Ripon at South Stainley'.

 

The photo is on a double track section, but is tender first.  I'm not sure whether this helps!

 

In many locations it would come down to the likes of headshunt lengths.  There is a story of something being sent to Oxenhope for an outbound bank holiday excursion train, only to find it wouldn't fit in the headshunt so couldn't run round.  I think that was a black 5. 4Fs regularly hauled them, and there are photos of Crabs doing so too.

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47 minutes ago, Jub45565 said:

Thanks for the correction... I'm sure I have seen a photo of one of the last Holbeck ones paired with a black one... anyhow, back to tender first Jubilees and it was indeed the train on 30/5/67.  On page 29 of the OPC 'The Power of the Jubilees'.  '...on 30th May 1967, Holbeck turned out no. 45562 to take the Duke of Edinburgh down the Ripon line. It was photographed returning with the empty stock from Ripon at South Stainley'.

 

It wasn't really meant as a "correction", more a "not only but also". 

 

I was pretty sure I had seen a picture of 45562 running tender-first with the Royal train on the Ripon line in May 1967, but I couldn't find it. Perhaps it was in a magazine at that time.

 

38 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Most definitely a secondary route - not a branch line - but single track for most of its length...

 

I don't know if the routes to Stranraer - the Port Road and Girvan-Stranraer - would have been defined as 'secondary routes' (I'm not really sure of the definition). However, they were also both single track for most of their length. They saw Jubilees most days, and usually several times a day, into the 1960s.

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  • 8 months later...

Is there a direct-fit more powerful motor which can be used to replace the standard one?

 

Once LMS / BR finally got the Jubilee's sorted they were decent steamers / performers and the Bachmann barely performs adequately - something to take it to a par with the Hornby Black 5 for example.

 

Al.

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1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

Is there a direct-fit more powerful motor which can be used to replace the standard one?

 

Once LMS / BR finally got the Jubilee's sorted they were decent steamers / performers and the Bachmann barely performs adequately - something to take it to a par with the Hornby Black 5 for example.

 

Al.

 

Is this one of the newer, DCC ready ones or an older split chassis?

Jubilees were all in service by 1936, so the teething troubles should have been long gone by the time BR existed.

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I realised after posting, just as 'family duties' prevailed - later one - Kolahpur - DCC (removed) ready.

Multi-wire plug to tender, with choice of drawbars - very close or 'normal'.

 

Up to 5-6 carriages it's not bad - can get up to perhaps 80-90 mph equivalent - but load up with 9 free-running carriages and it has problems getting above 65-70 approx.

Hornby N15, Schools, MN's can run rings around it, as can 46100 Royal Scot.

 

I know the chassis doesn't have bushings like the Hornby ones, which would help, but it's nicely run in and runs well from low power upwards.

The body is narrow, which will restrict possible options I know, but a higher powered skew 5-pole equivalent would be brilliant - if possible.

 

Al.

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I doubt it's the motor, more likely weight and distribution there-of.  That said, IIRC @davefrk reported a Bachmann Jubilee showing prodigious hauling capacity with admittedly some very free-running coaches.

 

Although Jubilees are recorded as reaching 90mph quite often, a more normal express speed would be more like 60mph.

 

Alan

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In my experience the Bachmann Jubilee is at least the equal of the Hornby Black 5 in haulage capacity. Lower geared tho (so lower top end) and not as inherently smooth running (that 3 pole motor and lack of tender power pick up can't match the Hornby 5 pole). I do find Bachmann wheels get dirty quicker than Hornby and this can affect haulage capacity as well as running quality - might be worth checking this on your example.

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It's certainly got the haulage capacity.

The chassis is fine - free running, pickups correctly aligned.

 

It's that little 3-pole motor - just cannot handle 'prototypical' trains like the Black 5 can.

If there were a way of getting one of those beefy Hornby skew-wound 5-poles in - like a Castle or King - would be great.

 

It's not spinning wheels, it's just slower.

I know many modellers like a train running at perhaps 45-50 mph with 5 -6 carriages - nothing wrong - and to leave for 30 minutes plus, but just side-by-side, the Black 5's sheer power buries it without trying!!

It's barely the power to spin wheels - not realistic - which my Castles, Kings, N15 - have no problem doing.

 

That's the point.

I was wondering if anyone's done a swap with a decent motor, which it was, and what was done to achieve it.

 

Al.

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