The Hintock Branch-1930's Dorset Joint GWR/SR Workings in OO

[chesterfield]

John ,

the windjamme came  in today- with OctoberRM- drat it.

So would you tell me the dimensions of  the Quay please

Cheers

PS 26C here

[john flann]

 

Alan,above is a sketch plan giving the main dimensions of HTQ. The plan in RM (when your ship gets in) is based on this. You will note the splayed ends. This does away with the empty fish tank look of so many traditional rectangular Inglenooks.

 

Below is an image illustrating the construction method I adopted for the baseboard. Crude it might seem to  some but it is both light and substantial. And as I have already remarked I consider many baseboards totally over engineered.

 

The pink stuff is 2" thick insulation material, left over from a home project, the frame is from nominal 2"x1", with triangular masonite (hardboard in the UK) braces. The top is covered with 1/8" birch ply and the whole is nailed and glued together. On the top I glued 12"x12" cork flooring tiles. These always lay flat.

 

The simple wiring secured with duct tape will also be noted

 

[chesterfield]

Thankyou John,

I was not far out with my estimates based on waggons on the tracks.

Took me a while to work out that it was the "other side "of the tunnel.

Once again great modelling.

Cheers

[CourthsVeil]

John,

I must confess: I too belong to the KISS gang.

"Over engineered" is quite the right word !

And the wiring – just perfect !

 

Apart from the technicalities – a lovely small layout. So atmospheric. Well done, Sir !

 

Regards

  Armin

[john flann]

Thank you Alan and Armin for your comments, for the "likes" and interest shown by those who "hit".

 

I've now seen my copy of  the December RM and am highly delighted with the presentation of HTQ by Steve Flint and his crew. And I don't think there is a lot more I can add. But, of course, I shall find something.

 

 

This is the beginnings, by now I had adopted the splayed ends and that was a start, but I wasn't satisfied. And  you can see why. Too much track, for one thing. Though the fish tank look is beginning to disappear.  But where's any prospect of charm? It's all been done before. No originality at all.

 

 

Things coming on with the siding removed .

 

 

Then some time after (and the enhancements to Hintock itself) inspiration came with cutting away the front to achieve that sweeping curve, and I was in business. This shows the RH end in course of construction and the necessary fiddling about to find the best arrangement. It also shows, with a closer examination "how I dun it". Any questions please ask.

 

 

This shows some of the finished detail. I was pleased with the addition of the chimney to the mill, the way the signal box/ground frame shaped up and the cottages I made up from a Metcalfe kit cut in half.

 

 

And in "Bernard Ashcroft' fashion.

[Andrew P]

Lovely pics of the construction there John, the curved front is really the making of the whole layout.

 

Very nice indeed young man.

[john flann]

Those marks of approval are appreciated, gentlemen.

 

And AndyM I hope I have not spoiled your fun with  the b&w image. It does so lend itself to it.

 

Indeed AndyP, it is that curved front that made all the difference. I must admit to some trepidation on making the first saw cut, but then if I hadn't liked the result I could have stuck it back on.

[artizen]

I have six blue foam boards looking for a layout to build on them. I will have to wait until March 2015 though - the chemo knocks me around too much to do anything substantial. Besides, I seem to only get one or two good days a month for personal interests and not concurrently either.

 

The use of foam is truly an eye-opener. I have two test boards sitting around and they are remarkably light (as in using only your little finger to lift a 1200x60mm board with timber frame underneath). And I can't twist them enough to concern myself. Modern building materials are so much better than the old traditions (because most of our traditions date back at least 40 years). The only downside to the foam is that insurance cover is a nightmare as it burns with a toxic smoke - make sure you have an evacuation plan in place that the whole family have practiced!

 

The HTQ layout is beautiful - well up to your usual standards - from the top. From underneath - oh my gawd!!! Just be aware that eventually the duct tape will separate from the foam as they are not compatible over time. But the answer to that is of course, more duct tape!

 

Please keep posting photos of your layouts - real gems in every way.

[Highlandman]

Those marks of approval are appreciated, gentlemen.

 

And AndyM I hope I have not spoiled your fun with  the b&w image. It does so lend itself to it.

 

Indeed AndyP, it is that curved front that made all the difference. I must admit to some trepidation on making the first saw cut, but then if I hadn't liked the result I could have stuck it back on.

John. the b&w pictures look great and as you said in an earlier post, not all pictures lend themselves to that treatment. Just out of interest, was there a reason you did not make use of the curved front to continue the quay wall and river along the length of the layout?

[Highlandman]

I though something a bit like this.

 

 

It continues the theme along the front with the River Bredy, maybe some reeds to break up the flatness, and a fisherman sitting on the bank watching the shunter hard at work because he can't catch anything.

 

 

[john flann]

Artizan, I was sorry to read of your misfortune and consequent difficulties and trust that better times are ahead for you.

 

This is the first time I have used foam. It's certified and of the best quality and have 4" of it in my house walls between a 1/2" external quality plywood, a dry wall interior and a timber frame. Certainly combustible but certified for use in domestic homes and commercial buildings. Unless exposed to a naked flame it's reasonably safe. And yes, we take all the necessary precautions.

 

The insurance companies accept it. That's the way customary way buildings are constructed out here in the West.

 

I'm glad you liked HTQ, I appreciate your interest. it was fun to build and is a pleasure to operate. More about it to follow.

 

AndyM, The short answer to your inquiry is-time. But you deserve a longer answer and as time does not allow I shall try and send you a considered response later today. But I had to acknowledge that clever photography straight away.

[westerhamstation]

Hello John, I got my copy of RM yesterday, and as usual your modelling and article are a delight. All the best Adrian.

[john flann]

AndyM, as ever your photography is very clever-I wouldn't know where to start with that transformation of HTQ.

 

But to answer your question; the short answer is that I did not do more because time would not allow. And what one sees is actually more than I intended. Even so the article I submitted to RM had the title " HTQ-an exercise of the imagination". And a lot was left intentionally to it. I know what's not there and others can decide for themselves.

 

The long answer is more complex, in my imagination and world of Hintock Redux, Dorset, HTQ was initially built long ago when ships were small and reliant on the wind, and to make things more difficult it was a difficult beat up the River Brede. In truth there was little trade and most of what there was went to Port Bredy at the rivers mouth. But it did avoid the cartage along the poor road between there and Hintock. The dues did not cover costs and neglect set in. So when the promoters of the railway to PB offered to take it off the Town Council's hands they happily relinquished it.

 

The promoters of the railway invested some capital and brought the Quay out of its dilapidated state and offered inducements of carriage by rail to encourage trade, So things did pick up. However, coasting vessels like all others began to be built of iron and steam powered. These could carry more and were of a deeper draft than the sailing vessels hitherto. The Brede too began to silt up. The Joint owners the GWR/SR too had their own shipping services based on nearby Weymouth. The larger vessels now in the coastal trade could not reach the small inland ports, Their days were over. 

 

Another very cogent reason why I did not extend quay wall as you suggest would be the cost. Expenditure on a cut stone wall of that length and height could never be justified. It was difficult enough for the promoters to raise capital for the Port Bredy branch in the first instance because there was no promise of great profit. It was an entirely local enterprise. True some individuals had with the coming of the railway, the notion of turning Port Bredy into another Bournemouth but the hard headed financiers did not buy into it.

 

All this might seem fanciful to some, but I think these things through from the beginning with the setting of time and place.

 

One last thing, what concentrates the eye are the lines of the post and wire fence and within them to the content. I think that is likely to be lost if the scene is broadened.

 

Of course, others will think differently but your ideas have enabled me to elaborate a little on the thinking behind HTQ. 

[Highlandman]

As always John, a well thought out and explained history for the Hintock region of Dorset. Nothing is built on the layout without a reason and I can just see some old sail powered lighters making their way up the Bredy to Hintock Quay. You are absolutely right the smaller inland ports becoming moribund with the advent of bigger coastal ships and siting of large facilities on the coast and estuaries. You can still see some of this influence in Cornwall at Cotehele and Morewhellam Quays on the Tamar.

 

Cotehele Quay

 

 

Morwellham Quay

 

 

(Pictures above are used under the Creative Commons Free Re-use policy)

 

I would certainly not call this fanciful as it lends a credible background story and history to Hintock Redux and its surrounding area. I believe one contributer has already stated that the history seems so real that you would find yourself looking for Hintock and Port Bredy as you drive round Dorset.

 

It has also made me realise how important a back story is, and even though I have developed a small one, I could expand on it a bit more and in the meantime learn a bit more about the history of South Devon and especially the South Hams.

 

So many thanks for the full explanation and the wonderful modelling that is Hintock Redux and HTQ. It gives me hope yet.

 

All the best to you and your family

 

Andy

[john flann]

Andy, you are very generous in your praise of both Hintock itself and HTQ and I much appreciate that. You also recognize that the back story has much to do with it.  It does make a difference and from my visits to the South Hams where my sister lived I am sure you will find enough fact to weave a very credible story for yourself. It is a delightful area and I always enjoyed our family visits.

 

As to Hintock and the locality maybe I should consider writing a tourist's guide book.

 

I'm pretty sure some of the inspiration for HTQ came from those quays up and down the Tamar that you illustrated. I can recall also reading a magazine article about them as have I a book about coastal shipping and the vessels in the trade. Whatever it stuck and HTQ came out of it all.

 

I get great fun and deep pleasure out of putting a credible story together. Quite right nothing gets done without a sound reason for it.

 

Your good wishes are kind and I wish the same to you and your family in return. Thursday is Thanksgiving Day and, weather permitting, all the family will be here and so share it between us all. We have a great deal to be thankful for and to commemorate as a family. I'm sure you do within your own.

 

In a way, back to business, you might like the image below and that I am sure will stir your creative skills.

 

 

All good wishes,

 

John.

[Highlandman]

Happy Thanksgiving John and family. Hope you have a great day and don't overindulge to much today. Time to celebrate the harvest, health and family.

 

Plus it's an evening of football here. 1st up Bears v Lions at 5.30pm then Eagles v Cowbows at 9.15pm and Seahawks v 49'ers at about 1am. Thank God I'm not in work tomorrow.

 

All the best

 

Andy

[Andrew P]

Evening John, I love that latest pic of your Quay, but Andy's pics from up the Tamar are a bit inspiring as well.

 

My O Gauge Layouts; St Budoc and Trebudoc came about as I was born in St Budeaux, Plymouth, and its original name when founded by a French Monk was St Budoc, and so I used that on one Layout and changed it to Trebudoc for the next, but what I'm leading up to is that your lovely little HTQ and Andy's pics above are tempting me to do a St Budoc Quay, up the Tamar once Bitton is well under way.

 

Thanks Guys for some great pics and memories, (although I left Plymouth when I was 4).

[john flann]

AndyM and AndyP, those are very kind and generous words from you both. My best wishes to you and your families.

 

Thanksgiving is a special day for us all, and in particular my wife Jeanne and I have so much to be grateful for, in our health (not too bad when you consider we both are well into our senior years) and family with two fine sons, their American wives and three teenage grandchildren. We had planned a family get together but the weather has prevented it, for a severe winter storm in Montana made the 550 mile journey for Christopher impossible. But we shall be with Nicholas (he lives not far away) and as ever, enjoy the company of him and his family.

 

Enjoy the American football but its not to my taste, rugby is, but it never reaches our TV screen. Not that we watch much anyway. Most here is total rubbish.

 

HTQ seems to have hit the right spot for many and I'm glad of that. Simple yet sophisticated it has a lot to offer. And AndyP you don't have to wait, you could make a start right now.

 

And AndyP I always remember your comment about no post being complete without an image and here it is. It has been seen elsewhere but the Hintock thread is where it rightly belongs.

 

 

                                     Harold and James Pearce. Coal Merchants. Hintock, Dorset.

 

(Should it appear the two figures are the same, that's not surprising as Harold and James are identical twins.)

[john flann]

 

Browsing some older images I came across these: the Goods Shed at Hintock. Scratchbuilt around forty years ago. It's worn well.

 

[Andrew P]

John, that Shed is amazing for its age, some superb modelling. and its stood the test of time, Forty Years ago I was still building Superquick Card Kits, BADLEY, hahha

[john flann]

Andy, another  trip down Memory Lane. Yes I remember too the days of Superquick buildings, fair enough then and I used them and the building papers but I always thought I could do better and as events turned out that was so.

 

                                             

 

It also got me looking back through my collection of old magazines and I found one with an article in it of my layout "Owlcombe" on which this goods shed first appeared. Above is a scanned page that shows it.

 

"Owlcombe" was an attractive little layout with the scenic part just 5'0 long. It was well received on the local (then Preston) show circuit and at the premier show at the time the Manchester MRS exhibition. There in 1973 it won an award, below.

 

                                              

 

Happy days, indeed. In March 1974 I was posted to central London and my connections with Lancashire came to an end.

 

Thanks too, to all those who "liked" the images. I must admit it has carried its years well and remains an attractive building.

[sjgardiner]

 

Browsing some older images I came across these: the Goods Shed at Hintock. Scratchbuilt around forty years ago. It's worn well.

 

 

Hard to believe it's that old, it's worn well.  We should all be so lucky as to have our projects hold up that well and look that good in 40 years time!

 

-Stephen

[sp1]

Do you have any more pictures of 'Owlcombe'?

[Andrew P]

Hi John, yet more great memories and stories, just wonderful, and yes as Steve said do you have anymore pics of Owlcombe please?

[john flann]

 

Another trip, gentlemen, down Memory Lane.

 

This shows a loco standing at Owlcombe. And is interesting in that apart from the layout itself how matters have so much improved for the modeller of today compared to "back then", and when I started seriously in the 1960's.

 

Apart from Hornby and increasingly Triang and the "real" scratch builders there was little on offer for those who wanted something a little different, like me.  I had been aware of Hatton's on Smithdown Road in Liverpool because in my earlier days when working there in the 1950'sl I had  had 'digs"  not far away and it seemed virtually every Corporation bus traversed it on their travels. So later when married and living in Preston a Saturday afternoon visit, by means of our Morris Minor, was often made. And there, served by the original Mr Hatton in his poky little shop, I got second hand items.

 

But amongst the new were Gaiety Pannier cast bodies. And the photo shows one after I had "improved" it.

 

This was by way of a new brass funnel, safety valve, sprung buffers, vacuam pipes, lamps, cast number plates, three link couplings, Humbrol paint and transfers. Also by cutting back the cab, and adding coal and crew. These items I purchased from Welch's model shop, an excellent shop, at the bottom of Church Street, Preston. it was mounted on a second hand Hornby R1 chassis-with steam roller wheels-from the aforementioned Mr Hatton.

 

So when I read today of members getting concerned about new locos not having small holes where they should and small holes where they shouldn't, I smile.

 

I still have this loco and its brother, not as runners, but certainly for distant photographic shots (as seen, I recall recently, on some of those for HTQ.)