Wright writes.....

[thegreenhowards]

11 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

It begs the question, how far will manufacturers be able to push prices before enough of the potential market says ‘no!’   I’ll buy one as well, but then wait to see if the price subsequently drops to clear unsold stock.

I agree. At this price it’s not a casual purchase. I will pay this much for something I really want but definitely the exception rather than the rule. When Bachmann announced this originally I only had one V2 and would have added another, even at that price. But I now have six (1 Bachmann, 1 Bachmann/ Comet, 3 Nucast, one Jamieson/ Comet - all bar one picked up for significantly less than £100) so I’ll wait and see if it comes down a bit. Failing that I’ll spend the money on an A2/2 or A2/3 of which I have fewer or (bringing the subject back to where Wright Writes should be) make the Nucast kit I have in my roundtuit pile.

 

Andy

[Pebbles]

Surely, the base line is a general comparison in prices and quality between Hornby and Bachmann.

[t-b-g]

I have just made a rare RTR purchase, by obtaining one of the new MR 0-4-4T locos.

 

I have plenty to keep me busy and it is a type that is completely appropriate for my new layout.

 

Could I build one as good? Probably, if I put lots of hard work, effort and many hours of time into it. Do I need to prove to myself that I could build one? Not really. I have built enough locos to make that unnecessary.

 

It will still have some input from me as I will probably upgrade the chimney, weather it slightly and of course it needs to be converted to EM. I probably won't be able to use the original wheels as they are for my "Manchester EM" project and that requires quite fine flanges.

 

So the purchase has freed up many hours of time and will allow me to progress the layout work more quickly.

 

I really can't see the point in building a kit for something when there is a perfectly good RTR one available, which, if it is a modern release, is likely to be far more accurate and better detailed than an older kit. There are some very good kits out there but there are also those that are, at best, an approximation, especially older ones.

 

If your overall aim is to create a realistic scene on a layout, how can it be better to say "Well I know it isn't as good as a Bachmann one but at least I built it myself".

 

So I am all in favour of the constructional side of the hobby but I put my efforts into things that are not available RTR.

 

So my RTR 0-4-4T will run alongside a whole raft of kit built and scratchbuilt locos and stock I won't have a moment of guilt at not having built it myself!

 

As for the V2, I have the one I mentioned earlier, which is enough!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

16 hours ago, Beechnut said:

Hello Tony

 

So the light to the smokebox top was removed/lowered to comply with OHLE regs, got it.

It is an interesting image and in surprisingly good external condition for the year. I did wonder if it was about to be used, or just come off a railtour, which of course would explain the photo.

 

Cheers

 

Brendan

Good morning Brendan,

 

My apologies for not replying sooner (I'm painting your Ivatt 4MT). 

 

The electric lighting on the post-Gresley Pacifics was probably redundant soon after it was installed. The lamps used to get bashed, and oil-lit lamps were carried, anyway.

 

Though the top electric lamp has been removed from the loco in the picture you posted, the conduit for electric lighting is still present on the side of the firebox. 

 

Several locos previously equipped with electric lighting had it removed, though the tall lamp brackets on the front platform remained. Even the bracket for the top lamp remained on some. The generator/dynamo was removed from behind the off-side deflector, as was the conduit on the same side. 

 

Some locos had longer brackets in anticipation, but were never equipped with electric lighting. Ah, those joys of 'loco-picking'!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Some very interesting recent comments indeed.

 

Having had the privilege of the examining the forthcoming Bachmann RTR V2 (over a year ago now), I can only conclude that it will be an exceptional model (I wouldn't make any judgments on pictures). At a price in excess of £200.00? Well, as has been observed, by the time all the bits have been acquired for an equivalent kit (say, PDK or Finney) then the price for the RTR V2 will have been easily surpassed - very easily surpassed in the case of the latter kit. As for factoring in the painting; I have to say I'm not entirely keen on either Bachmann's or Hornby's rendition of BR green, at source. However, as has been shown already, with some work both can look very good. Regarding lined apple green, consider what a pro-paint job costs for that? 

 

The cost of building an equivalent kit? At a pro's rate, plus all the bits, plus an appropriate paint job for a V2? Around £1,000.00 (though others charge less). Even with my dodgy arithmetic, four new Bachmann ones, plus a bit over, give or take? If one 'wants' a 'fleet' of V2s, then it's a simple choice. 

 

However, if one can build a V2 oneself, then, in my opinion, that simple choice is the other way. In my view, there is nothing to beat being able to say 'I made that', 'inferior' though it might be to the latest piece of RTR wonderment. Placed against the forthcoming Bachmann V2, the dozen or more V2s I've built for LB (and previous layouts) from such kits as Jamieson, Crownline, Nu-Cast, King/Comet and MJT/Comet (some of which I've painted), then (despite several having pro paint jobs) the 'sharp-eyed' (and even the myopic) might definitely consider 'mine' to be 'inferior' in comparison. But, so what? That's not the point. Anyone can own whatever they like as long as they can afford it (I'm not even considering theft!). Mine are unique. 

 

Granted, by acquiring (very good) RTR items, then time is freed-up for other projects, so there's sense in that. However, my 'needs' for LB are quite specific, especially regarding haulage capacity. On test on LB, the pre-production Bachmann V2s I had almost hauled as much as my kit-built equivalents (so, things have improved); in the same way, the Hornby A2/2 I tested recently almost hauled as much as my kit-built ones (again, a great improvement).  The conclusion is, then, that what's coming will be very powerful indeed. 

 

But, as usual, it's down to personal tastes. I always have and (as long as I'm able) always will build my own locos. Though I 'care' what's coming out soon RTR (if I didn't give a fig, why would I help RTR manufacturers?), on a personal level I don't 'need' (nor want) RTR V2s or RTR Thompson Pacifics.  When we get back to some sort of 'normality', and visitors are made most-welcome again to see Little Bytham, why would I show my guests what I've just bought? 

[Chas Levin]

13 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

It begs the question, how far will manufacturers be able to push prices before enough of the potential market says ‘no!’   I’ll buy one as well, but then wait to see if the price subsequently drops to clear unsold stock.

Fully agree; I've only bought one RTR item in the last year or so where I used to buy several a year and although that probably has more to do with my becoming more involved in kit building, it's also very much to do with such high loco prices. the V2 will probably be my sole RTR loco for 2021 too.

Inflation is everywhere though so I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised at rising costs, and it's also certainly the case the levels of detail, smooth running etc have risen too (though I do realise this is not a universally popular view!).

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Chas,

 

Though I don't know for a fact, I assume these V2s will be limited editions (?). 

 

What's interesting (at least to me) is that 60800 in BR green represents the loco in preservation only. It has worksplates on the cabsides and tows a low frontplate tender. In general service, in BR green the cabside 'plates were missing and it towed a high frontplate tender with small front cut-outs.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Good morning Tony,

 

Do you mean that the Rails releases will be limited editions or that the main Bachmann release(s) will also be limited?

 

The Rails mailout doesn't mention them being limited, it just mentions them being exclusive.

 

A little oddly, at the top of the text it says that 'the partnership of Rails and Locomotion Models' has commissioned exclusive (their use of bold!) versions from Bachmann, but near the foot, beneath all the artwork and pricing, it refers to them being developed by Bachmann for Rails only, dropping mention of Locomotion.

Small point, I know, but you'd be amazed what gets noticed and causes upset. Hope it's just a typo...

[Chas Levin]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Compared to the recently announced Locomotion LNWR inside cylinder 2-4-0 at a RRP of £220, it doesn't seem too bad, especially as it is already discounted by the online retailers.

 

The Bachmann MR /SDJR/BR 0-4-4T thread elsewhere on RMweb would also seem to show that their is no shortage of demand for the new, detailed, RTR models, with some people buying multiples, especially in different liveries and specifications.

 

Those suppliers at most risk at present are potentially the kits and bits suppliers. The loss of shows and exhibitions which is usually where they can sell products and introduce  new items, so keeping in touch with their customers,  has undoubtedly been a problem. However a reasonable web presence has helped keep sales going for most. They have probably also suffered more in getting supplies during the pandemic from UK suppliers that the RTR manufacturers have experienced importing from China.

I think the Locomotion involvement may be a clue to the pricing structure; I know their models are usually absolutely superb, but cheap they are most definitely not. I'd have loved to have a GNR Stirling Single but couldn't quite face the price...

[drmditch]

Re: Wants vs Needs

I want, but don't need an A2/3 - but have ordered one

I need and want at least one LNER black V2 - and have an MJT body and Alexander 'stepped-out coal rave' tender, and am just deciding what I will order to make the 'works'.

I want, don't need, but would really like an LNER Green V2.

 

What I really do want and need to do is get on with the cast-iron pillars for a wrought-iron girder bridge, and avoid all these temptations and distractions please!

 

(So the WWW gives information and the WWW takes away time!)

 

[rowanj]

Tony's usual erudite post covers the RTR v kit-building ground very nicely, and and  i couldn't agree more that there is more than materials cost to distinguish the two parts of the hobby.  However, even those who don't commission a £1000  professional build would need to spend at least £230 on a V2 kit to build it themselves. Do PDK make one?  I suggest that most modellers who build things do so, at least in part, for the pleasure of the building activity. How important it is, as it clearly is to Tony, that something one owns on ones' railway is "unique", is a matter of personal preference.

 

I am a pretty moderate modeller - and that is not false modesty- but I spend much more time building stuff than running the layout, and when I do, it is much more likely to be things I have worked on than something just out the box. I know where I get my modelling pleasure these days. But if I want another V2, and can sneak it past Mrs Rowanj, I'll go with Bachmann, then promptly re-number it. Why build an inferior one at greater cost when a superb RTR is available?

 

If I ever got to Little Bytham, I would be perfectly happy, and indeed interested, to see how the latest RTR models worked on Tony's prototype  length trains. 

 

Incidentally, I refer often to my "Right Lines" DVD's, which are excellent. In one, (Vol 3 ?),  the narrator, when discussing the then new Hornby A3 and A4, says they are so good he will never build another kit of that Class again. Sounds good to me.

 

Best wishes to Tony and all "Wright Writers" for Xmas and 2021.

 

[Headstock]

A number of rather necessary but not particularly photogenic processes have been completed on the dia. 45 BG, a proper update will follow. In the meantime, a break through in research and the delivery of essential parts from suppliers has allowed for significant movement on the dia. 210 twin. Stepboards and other details have been scratch built or purchased and fitted and the new roofs are well underway.

 

The vac pie is now leaning to the right on the brake end. The twins seem to be equally divided between left and right leaning uprights, this determines the side on which the pipe runs down the solebar. It is tempting to speculate, that there may be purpose in left and right hand leaning pipes on two twins in a set. This would position the vac pipe down the same side of a set even though one twin is facing north and the other south.

 

 

 

The tell tales and switching equipment is now complete on the end of the compo.

 

 

I also confirmed the location of the regulator box on the brake. Thanks to mike Trice who supplied details of the actual box, this is my mini scratch build with little knob.

 

 

 

As a change of pace, the dia 113 BG is currently progressing through the paint shop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Headstock

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Do you mean that the Rails releases will be limited editions or that the main Bachmann release(s) will also be limited?

 

The Rails mailout doesn't mention them being limited, it just mentions them being exclusive.

 

A little oddly, at the top of the text it says that 'the partnership of Rails and Locomotion Models' has commissioned exclusive (their use of bold!) versions from Bachmann, but near the foot, beneath all the artwork and pricing, it refers to them being developed by Bachmann for Rails only, dropping mention of Locomotion.

Small point, I know, but you'd be amazed what gets noticed and causes upset. Hope it's just a typo...

Good evening Chas,

 

I'm making an assumption that the Rails/Locomotion V2s will be Ltd editions (though don't quote me on this). Certainly, in the case of Locomotion, they're usually Ltd editions.

 

Whatever, 'exclusive' usually means a higher price. 

 

No doubt we'll all know before long. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, rowanj said:

Tony's usual erudite post covers the RTR v kit-building ground very nicely, and and  i couldn't agree more that there is more than materials cost to distinguish the two parts of the hobby.  However, even those who don't commission a £1000  professional build would need to spend at least £230 on a V2 kit to build it themselves. Do PDK make one?  I suggest that most modellers who build things do so, at least in part, for the pleasure of the building activity. How important it is, as it clearly is to Tony, that something one owns on ones' railway is "unique", is a matter of personal preference.

 

I am a pretty moderate modeller - and that is not false modesty- but I spend much more time building stuff than running the layout, and when I do, it is much more likely to be things I have worked on than something just out the box. I know where I get my modelling pleasure these days. But if I want another V2, and can sneak it past Mrs Rowanj, I'll go with Bachmann, then promptly re-number it. Why build an inferior one at greater cost when a superb RTR is available?

 

If I ever got to Little Bytham, I would be perfectly happy, and indeed interested, to see how the latest RTR models worked on Tony's prototype  length trains. 

 

Incidentally, I refer often to my "Right Lines" DVD's, which are excellent. In one, (Vol 3 ?),  the narrator, when discussing the then new Hornby A3 and A4, says they are so good he will never build another kit of that Class again. Sounds good to me.

 

Best wishes to Tony and all "Wright Writers" for Xmas and 2021.

 

Good evening John,

 

I made an assumption (too many of late?) that a V2 was in PDK's range, because a lot of the ex-Crownline types became so. Perhaps someone can inform us.

 

Regarding things being unique; I suppose that if one renumbers/renames/details/weathers an RTR loco, then that makes it unique. However, since one cannot qualify an absolute, it's impossible to state that an item entirely hand-made is 'more' unique, or even 'very' unique (which I heard one professional journalist say recently - groan!). 

 

As is well known, I derive the greatest pleasure from this wonderful hobby by making locos/rolling stock. In the past this was out of necessity, but I still prefer to build my own locos, even when a superb RTR one is available. As noted, what do I say to guests when they visit (and you're more than welcome once this 'horror' is over)? I've just bought that? Isn't it good? Granted, a lot of the painting is farmed out to my betters, and I always give credit for the work of others (would that some others did the same). 

 

Was I the 'narrator' in question (I thought I was the presenter) on the Right Track (not Lines) DVD you mention? If so, I lied! Who can you trust these days? 

 

Best wishes to you at this (different) festive time.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

At this festive time, the 'milk of human kindness' is very much in evidence.......

 

The other day, Derek Johnson told me the rather sad tale of a loco he'd been commissioned to build for a customer. Nothing 'sad' about the loco, but the commissioner has subsequently died. Instead of just selling the loco (to at least cover some of his costs), he's donated it for me to sell on behalf of CRUK!

 

It arrived safely at lunchtime, and here it is.......

 

 

 

A rather pretty J52. It's clearly kit-built - very well - (from etchings); perhaps Derek will let us know its origins. 

 

I've altered the polarity (it went the wrong way at first - was it going to be for a DCC system?), oiled it and conducted its running-in (an hour each way on the rolling road at slow speed). 

 

 

Then, off she toddled on a pick-up on LB. How natural.......... 

 

 

And was equally happy shunting cattle vans (assisted by PMP's wee fellow). 

 

I'll glaze the spectacles, add a crew and weather her. Then, she'll be up for sale.

 

Thanks for your generosity, Derek. 15 minutes of fame? I think it's a lot more than that! 

 

 

[micklner]

PDK list the V2  as kit no 8 @ £123.00

 

 

http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/PL 1.htm

 

[Andy Hayter]

and that looks to be without a chassis

[davidw]

26 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

and that looks to be without a chassis

Pdk kits include chassis. The usual wheels, motor gear box needed to complete

[Andy Hayter]

Just now, davidw said:

Pdk kits include chassis. The usual wheels, motor gear box needed to complete

 

Most of their kits include the words "with etched chassis".  The V2 does not.  So are you sure the V2 kit includes a chassis?

[Paul Cram]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Tony's usual erudite post covers the RTR v kit-building ground very nicely, and and  i couldn't agree more that there is more than materials cost to distinguish the two parts of the hobby.  However, even those who don't commission a £1000  professional build would need to spend at least £230 on a V2 kit to build it themselves.

I have to disagree with you on the cost of a kit built V2. The Mike Trice version comes in under £200 inccluding a Dave Bradwell tender in P4. P4 models generally are more expansive then RTR but not in this case.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Paul Cram
Quted wrong person

[davidw]

16 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Most of their kits include the words "with etched chassis".  The V2 does not.  So are you sure the V2 kit includes a chassis?

Good call, TBH I can't be sure. But I'd expect it to be consistent with the price of other bigger kits. Eg

 The Thompsons on the next page which come with chassis.

Edited December 19, 2020 by davidw

[Theakerr]

Watched one of the 'Whats Neat" shows last night and saw this.  Looks very interesting and can see me buying one because I could use the speed rather than the voltage to control my station stop modules.  According to RM they have opened a facility in the UK. 

 

 

https://tcsdcc.com/accessories/speedometers

[Clive Mortimore]

I find this discussion regarding the price of RTR, verses/compared to kits quite interesting but at the same time not relevant to my modelling. 

 

Let me explain, There are many good RTR models available today, and should I want one and my budget says yes as well then that rush of excitement as I open the box happens. Then I normally find the errors, do I correct them, depends how bad. 

 

If only a kit is available and again if my budget can meet he cost then again yes. I do find many kits difficult to make as bits don't fit, I have a Isinglass coach kit and a Mailcoach kit both deciding which window they will be launched through. 

 

I much prefer making my own, be it conversions or scratch built. I have been filing the roofs into shape for my dia 214 BS-TC twin. I know it won't be to the same high standard as Andrew's coach but I am having fun doing so, made even better by listening to the Screaming Females, Melisa can really shred a guitar. 

 

Surely the most important thing about model making is enjoying yourself while doing so. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Clive Mortimore
one missing e

[Tony Wright]

Derek Johnson has emailed me regarding the origins of the J52.

 

'I am overwhelmed with the photos and the RMweb entry, it looks absolutely first class lets hope we can get something decent in terms of contribution!!

 

I don’t post on RMweb although I do read all the time, there is a reason for this and haven’t got enough tablets to correct adverse comment!! However, it originated as an etched kit from Walworths Models and I guess was scaled down from their 7MM version. I did swop a couple of bits and pieces including the smokebox door as the one provided seemed too flat. I also used cast brass injectors (Mainly Trains) instead of the white metal ones more for robustness of handling.

I have to say it is not an easy kit, there is quite a lot of profiling of the body parts which can be tricky but does work eventually as you can see.'

 

Thanks again, Derek. 

[Tony Wright]

56 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Most of their kits include the words "with etched chassis".  The V2 does not.  So are you sure the V2 kit includes a chassis?

Good evening Andy,

 

I'd be very surprised if the PDK V2 doesn't include a chassis (especially at the price quoted). Every PDK kit I've built (some dozen) and previously Crownline loco kits (even more) have come complete with a set of etched frames.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

and that looks to be without a chassis

 

It says with valvegear so I would presume from that it has the chassis to hang it off.